Lean Gains

popchris said:
No, I'm not saying if I take PH I'll become superman. I mean I need some way to ensure that eating the amount people are saying I need (e.g., 2500-3000 cals) will not lead to me putting on fat. I think a PH will decrease that likelihood, am I right?
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Please re-read this about 15 times, and then read it another 20.
You are missing the point man.
The problem is YOU, the problem is YOUR RATIONAL, and the problem is YOUR THINKING. Until you want to change you won't. I will leave you with the advice given. You have everything you need. Until then your just wasting time, money, and effort.

The Solution said:
taking drugs, prohoromones, pills, and powdres doesn't mean you will make progress.
It has been stated in here NUMEROUS times. Unless your diet and training are in check those won't do jack for you man.
Anyone can inject themself with drugs, anyone can take OTC PH's. That does not correlate to making progress. Especially if you think you will at being in such a severe deficit.

Throw all the supplements out the window until you fix your diet. That is your biggest problem. Spending money on supplement is a lost cause at this point you need to fix your metabolism and get your body back in check before considering tossing anything down your throat besides more food.

Nobody will advise you to take any PH, any supplement becuase you can't supplement a bad diet. I don't know how many times it has to be said. Don't even think about any supplements besides your basics (Creatine, whey, fishoil and multi).

Once you start eating, and once you start making progress and fix the BIG Issue (which is over 90% of the puzzle) then maybe a few months down the line you can consider it. But for now. Its a waste.
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mickc1965 said:
Why do you think you cannot weight lift? You just need to find your maintenance level and then add 200-300 kcals on to that figure, train hard and it will all fall into place.
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Well, if the amount of calories I need to shed fat is too low to lift weight, then I have to choose between one or the other. I'm not sure if I can do both simultaneously.
 
If you want to add muscle then you need to eat in a caloric surplus which will lead to an element of fat gain this cannot be avoided unfortunately, however how much fat is gained will depend on current body fat (the leaner you start to bulk the better) and how much the caloric surplus is.
 
popchris said:
The last two days, as I've said, I've eaten more due to the comments in this thread (not as much as people are suggesting, but a few hundred calories more). I've also been looking at 1-andro and downloaded MyFitnessPal as people suggested. So I'm not arguing with everyone. All I know is that if I do eat more I will gain fat, so I have to now have to re-consider everything. Either I'll have to accept that I cannot weight lift, or I'll have to consider taking something like a PH to ensure I don't gain fat when I'm eating more calories (of course, there's side effects with PHs that I also want to avoid). These are all the things I now have to consider to see what makes sense.
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Being on a PH will not simply allow you to eat more without gaining fat. That is preposterous. And for the record, I've run tren, trest, 1-andro, epi-andro, and 11-KT. Furthermore, you can't stay on a PH forever. Unless you want to absolutely destroy your body, which you might do anyway if you don't have a proper on-cycle protocol and post cycle therapy. So you're going to run 1-andro for 6-8 weeks and then what? Go back to eating 1500 calories. Guess what...goodbye gains! Although I disagree with him sometimes, TheSolution is one of the most knowledgeable guys on this forum. Plus, he's natty (I believe) and actually worked for his physique (former fat kid, like me).

So you should listen to what he has to say.
 
popchris said:
Well, if the amount of calories I need to shed fat is too low to lift weight, then I have to choose between one or the other. I'm not sure if I can do both simultaneously.
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What do you think your current body fat is? Google body fat images if you need a visual guide.

What is your main goal, lose fat or build muscle? Decide which one you want most and do that as trying to do both is not going to happen.
 
mickc1965 said:
What do you think your current body fat is? Google body fat images if you need a visual guide.

What is your main goal, lose fat or build muscle? Decide which one you want most and do that as trying to do both is not going to happen.
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I definitely look closer to 20% than 25%. I wanted to achieve both. When I first started weightlifting, I lost weight and put on muscle. I lost a net 30 lbs and changed my composition.
 
popchris said:
I definitely look closer to 20% than 25%. I wanted to achieve both. When I first started weightlifting, I lost weight and put on muscle. I lost a net 30 lbs and changed my composition.
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But you are no longer a newbie so recomping will be harder than before, I personally would drop body fat from 20% down to at least 12% before trying to bulk back to 15% then cut again to say 10% etc, you still need to increase kcals IMO to ~2000 and change your rep range to 5-8 reps to help preserve muscle, aim for 1lb per week loss and this will also help to reduce muscle loss
 
mickc1965 said:
But you are no longer a newbie so recomping will be harder than before, I personally would drop body fat from 20% down to at least 12% before trying to bulk back to 15% then cut again to say 10% etc, you still need to increase kcals IMO to ~2000 and change your rep range to 5-8 reps to help preserve muscle, aim for 1lb per week loss and this will also help to reduce muscle loss
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So for the time being you would suggest no weightlifting, yes?
 
I think I didn't make it clear that I want to shed more body fat (as opposed to strictly not adding more body fat) and so I apologize for the confusion as the subject heading was "lean gains", which probably confused everyone. I think I need to focus on losing more fat before I am in a position to lift weights and gain muscle properly.
 
The Solution said:
Please re-read this about 15 times, and then read it another 20.
You are missing the point man.
The problem is YOU, the problem is YOUR RATIONAL, and the problem is YOUR THINKING. Until you want to change you won't. I will leave you with the advice given. You have everything you need. Until then your just wasting time, money, and effort.
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100% spot on here. Basically just way nicer than what I had said and even another member.

If he'd bother to look around he'd see a million threads. Hell, even mine. On a natty/trt 15 week recomp I added about 12lbs of muscle and dropped almost 10% body fat weighing LESS than him and eating close to DOUBLE his calories for the majority of the time. Which transitioned to TRT bc my natty levels sucked then sucked down to 4% bf and did a show. STILL on more calories than he is on now at a lighter weight.

My 2 week out calories on ZERO carb days was still 2100 at 170lbs and 5'8
 
Distilled Water said:
100% spot on here. Basically just way nicer than what I had said and even another member.

If he'd bother to look around he'd see a million threads. Hell, even mine. On a natty/trt 15 week recomp I added about 12lbs of muscle and dropped almost 10% body fat weighing LESS than him and eating close to DOUBLE his calories for the majority of the time. Which transitioned to TRT bc my natty levels sucked then sucked down to 4% bf and did a show. STILL on more calories than he is on now at a lighter weight.

My 2 week out calories on ZERO carb days was still 2100 at 170lbs and 5'8
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No, it wasn't a nicer version of what you said. What you said was that I am a troll or mentally ill. Why? Because I want to lose some fat and gain some muscle. The paragraph you're quoting was after I asked if a PH can help ensure I won't gain fat if I eat more calories. Then you go on to say how you lost fat and gained muscle all while on TRT. And I'm the troll...

And you're supposed to be representative of a company...keep up the good work.
 
Stop lifting
Drop your calories to about 1,000
Run 1-DHEA for about 26 weeks

That'll give you your best results.
 
popchris said:
Sure, right after you synthesize anthrax. Mail it to yourself. Open up the envelope and don't forget to inhale.
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If you don't want my advice, I guess you could just go with what everyone else provided.
 
Ape McGrapes said:
If you don't want my advice, I guess you could just go with what everyone else provided.
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Oh was that the moral of your post? I guess you haven't noticed, but 'everyone else's advice' isn't one uniform, monolithic consensus, but actually differing opinions. Most of which I already stated that I would consider and think more about. But of course it only takes one passive-aggressive See You Next Tuesday to enter the thread before its scent alerts the other ones to come join in and help pile on. Thank you for contributing to the death of this thread. God forbid, I may have received more constructive advice had it not been for you and the rest of the peanut gallery sabotaging it. Now it has a nice punctuation mark and thankfully all users passing through that may have otherwise had useful information to share will be discouraged from participating in this cluster****.
 
popchris said:
Oh was that the moral of your post? I guess you haven't noticed, but 'everyone else's advice' isn't one uniform, monolithic consensus, but actually differing opinions. Most of which I already stated that I would consider and think more about. But of course it only takes one passive-aggressive See You Next Tuesday to enter the thread before its scent alerts the other ones to come join in and help pile on. Thank you for contributing to the death of this thread. God forbid, I may have received more constructive advice had it not been for you and the rest of the peanut gallery sabotaging it. Now it has a nice punctuation mark and thankfully all users passing through that may have otherwise had useful information to share will be discouraged from participating in this cluster****.
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I think your too low calories are making you cranky.

Focus on one goal at a time.
Eat more, and pick healthier food choices
Keep training hard

It's a marathon, not a race. There's no instant gratification in this game.
 
popchris said:
No, it wasn't a nicer version of what you said. What you said was that I am a troll or mentally ill. Why? Because I want to lose some fat and gain some muscle. The paragraph you're quoting was after I asked if a PH can help ensure I won't gain fat if I eat more calories. Then you go on to say how you lost fat and gained muscle all while on TRT. And I'm the troll...

And you're supposed to be representative of a company...keep up the good work.
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Yeah trt to get my test levels to 700....which is normal.

Yeah bud, been on the board as an active participant and helping thousands of people who LISTEN to advice given by myself which is usually echoed by others (which is the case here as well) for over 10years.

I don't push my companies products to make them look better, I offered advice where it's the product that would provide benefits. In your case it's simple. You're under-eating, by a long shot and your mind set of getting fat is common. However, it's the truth.

You're in a state (lack of muscle) which screams recomp and would help you tremendously if you'd bump some calories. I've had clients that under eat horribly and ups on adding calories, results skyrocket. Amongst working with some of the industries most respected people. Proceed as you wish
 
I lifted the past two days eating roughly 1700 calories (bumped it up because of what people were here saying) and today I felt so lethargic, moody and light-headed (even though I didn't lift today). I am man enough to admit that I was foolish for thinking I could lift at that many calories. I need to eat more. Everyone was right. I was wrong.

However, do you think my lightheadedness and lethargy are from my lack of calories? The only reason I ask this is I understand that I get lightheaded at the gym because I go in there on an empty stomach, but why would I feel it today when I didn't even lift? And when I ate 1,500 calories and wasn't lifting, I didn't feel this way.
 
popchris said:
I lifted the past two days eating roughly 1700 calories (bumped it up because of what people were here saying) and today I felt so lethargic, moody and light-headed (even though I didn't lift today). I am man enough to admit that I was foolish for thinking I could lift at that many calories. I need to eat more. Everyone was right. I was wrong.

However, do you think my lightheadedness and lethargy are from my lack of calories? The only reason I ask this is I understand that I get lightheaded at the gym because I go in there on an empty stomach, but why would I feel it today when I didn't even lift? And when I ate 1,500 calories and wasn't lifting, I didn't feel this way.
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I believe you probably need to eat closer to 2800-3000 calories on lifting days to do a lean bulk, so yes I think 1700 would cause lethargy and would be your body telling you you need more fuel overall
 
Georgiepecker said:
I believe you probably need to eat closer to 2800-3000 calories on lifting days to do a lean bulk, so yes I think 1700 would cause lethargy and would be your body telling you you need more fuel overall
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But why would I feel it today? I'm just wondering if in fact it's something else that's affecting me today.

But yes, the last two days I've felt like **** and I realize I'm an idiot and need to do more research on how I'll be able to eat over 2500 calories without gaining fat.
 
popchris said:
But why would I feel it today? I'm just wondering if in fact it's something else that's affecting me today.

But yes, the last two days I've felt like **** and I realize I'm an idiot and need to do more research on how I'll be able to eat over 2500 calories without gaining fat.
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You're not an idiot, if I didn't know I'd have figured the lower the calories the less fat I'll put on, great...However those same calories contribute to muscle instead if you get the perfect amount...Who knows exactly why you feel it today but I say try 2500 calories for 7 days...Check weight daily...If not doesn't move go up to 2800 and so forth...etc
 
Maybe look into Carb Backloading. Might be right up your ally.
 
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