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Lean Gain and Fat Loss Advice

garleo

New member
44 yrs old and 5'8 and currently 180 lbs Mesomorph here.

The goal is to lose fat but keep muscle slowly coming thru summer.

I'v been working out on and off all my life, but never measuring food consumption so I have built some muscle through the years but has always been cloaked...

I started watching my Macros recently with clean diet and seeing some results.

Currently running per day 1800 Cal with 202g (45%) Protien- 135g (30%) Carbs - 50g (25%) Fat

On 2nd week of 30 days of Alpha Max XT
BCAA with Cittruline intra workout
Creatine Intra workout.


this has been yielding about 2lb or so loss for the past 5-6 weeks.

Weekly Workout is: 20 min Cardio at start of each workout

Arms
Shoulders
Legs
Chest
Back
Rest Day
Arms..
...

Thinking of adding 1 hr Cardio between workouts.. to start to work on shredding that fat, and helping in muscle recovery.

Any thoughts on improving on what I am doing? Supps .. Workouts ... Macros...??? I dont really have a desired weight to hit... its more about the fat loss... estimating I am at about 20% BodyFat now.

Last time I had abs was when Yates won his 2nd Olympia !! BTW, met him at Night of the Chamipions in 92 and the man was a House!!

Thanks,
 
1st diet: as a mesomoprh I calculate your bmr to be ~2160 cals, so you at 1800 will put you 360 under then calculating your work out put in lifting you will be at a minimum 600-700 deficit. I would not recommend dropping below 1800 cals. It restricts the amount of glycogen replenishment we can achieve as well as protien consumption. If you cease losing weight at that point we can discuss some type of cardio. This being said by calculating your 6 days a week of lifting and one rest day you should be burning about 1.2 lbs a week. Your macros don't look horrible and we can discuss changing them a bit when you hit a lower bf. In conclusion if you are actually hitting those macros then they sound like a solid starting point. Make sure you track your weight everyday then take the average at the end of the week. The average from week one to week to will tell you how to adjust your diet.

2nd lifting: make sure when cutting you are still putting a heavy load on your muscles. This will require your muscles to stay intake longer. No light weight crap for now at least. Make sure you are doing all your big lifts ie. Squats, presses, deads. What is the reason for arms being day 1. I would think that lifting arms day 1 then shoulders would reduce the weight that can be accomplished on overhead press and therefore reducing the maximum muscle retention on shoulders. Just a suggestion.

I would recommend starting a log so that we can follow you and give you pointers through the coming months.

Watch how much cardio you start with. It is something I like to add as needed. If you like cardio then go for it, it's great for your heart health and at your age never a bad thing to do in moderation. I would recommend looking into hiit training routines and I know this next part is going to sound weird but, increase 200 cals from essential fats and protein(eat fish). This will both give you the fuel you need for cardio without hitting catabolism as well as increasing over internal health. Brain is fuelled by glycogen and organs by omegas.

This is all going off the assumption that you are natural. If you are not then we can get some other posters that will be able to help with that side of the house.
 
Good Stuff!! Thanks cutandrun

My Macro tracking is pretty much spot on... lots of the same old food over and over again... but I'm sure you all know the drill.

I just took it up to 1900 I based on your feedback and also as my body is really feeling the workouts. I will play with the extra 100 cal for a week or two. now at 1900 cal 143g Carbs (30%) 213g Protein (45%) 53g Fat (25%) Profile. depending on weight change, will adjust accordingly.

Regarding the Lifting, I am definitely still trying to go for the 4 rep max on all my exercises depending on how I'm feeling. Typically doing a warm-up set for 15, then x12 x8 x6 x4 and back to the x15 warmup. Been reading a bit on trying to keep the muscle worked under strain/loaded through the entire rep, and I feel this has been helping recently, maybe in the (mind x muscle connection) there? The workout that had worked for me in my mid 20's ( from Yates Blood and Guts Book) got me to about 205 lb and was Benching @405 x4 - Squating @405 x4 Deadlifting @495 x4, So If I can get back to something near those numbers it would be nice! Not chasing numbers though currently. I had a Buddy working out with me every day back then so I could push really heavy as I had an assured spotter always... currently working out solo and only asking for a spot when feeling like pushing it to the next level.

I will try to log my workout this week and post it

The Reason I was starting my week off with Arms was just trying to start fresh on them each week as I never prioritized them in my life and felt it would be a good time to do it as basically that what is seen first as im not walking around with no shirt all the time...Sorry Ladies :) .. I've also found that working them together has worked out good for me as I can visually see them becoming engorged each workout, giving the appearance of gains coming.. I've thought about the Arms before Shoulders issue... but honestly don't know how to rearrange the splits better? maybe swapping Shoulders with Legs??

Any Ideas would be great?

Regarding the Cardio/HIIT I've worked out in the past 2 yrs also using Tabata (KettleBell/Bodyweigh) circuits at home and know they can definitely kick my butt, and YES, I know that I need to watch out !! When I was doing too much of this. I felt tired all the time , It was not too good for my mental state when going back to they gym.

Natural here... or as much as you can be with taking (Supps).. never played with gear... to scared of what could happen in later yrs. At 44 now, I can say there is no way I would! as mentioned, just running 30 days of Alphamax now (based on what ive read on these forums) not a game changer , but to some degree see the results given on the product review forum for it.. but in a lesser degree.
 
I think training shoulders following arms shouldn't be too much of an issue. I actually prefer to train delts when my triceps are fatigued to really focus on the shoulders and make sure I'm pushing with my delts and not my triceps. If you're trying to prioritize your arms, then I think your split is set up well.

Glad to hear you're trying out Alphamax. Are you using the OG version, or Alphamax XT? I fully agree with not using gear - I've read into it and done tons of research, but never had the balls to pull the trigger and try it. Natural supplements like Alphamax aren't going to deliver steriod-like gains, but as a long term natural lifter I'm sure you're getting some great benefits from it. How has recovery been?
 
the split has been working out for me, I never prioritized Arms in my life and have seen some gain with this split. I am sure I will need to adjust it as the body gets used to the same workout. Recently trying to stick with the using bars and dumbells for everything and foregoing the machines only to get that final pump at the end of workout. with shoulders, been starting with seated dumbell presses as heavy as I can go for 4 reps then isolation dumbell rear, and side flys. I noticed that really hitting the rear delts has helped my shoulder pain tremendously... maybe had a huge imbalance going with all that pressing all the time, but nothing to hit the rear delts much.

I have a bottle of the Alpha Max XT should be the new version. First day, I could feel something new pumping around but then it calmed down until week 2. I have made some strength gains.. nothing out of this world win the past week, and I can say I could see that I could push just a little more.

Recovery has been fine too... only DOMS i have felt in the past 2 weeks was after a heavy leg day ( Squats , Stiff leg Hamstring Pulls, Leg Extension, Leg Curls, ending with Sissy squats for that last pump and moving to calf raises) but I'm sure it didn't help that the next day I rode a bike with the wife.... That night and following day was Leg DOMs Central.. I may have been low on the water intake that day though....

My plan is to do 30 days, then take about 2 wks off and then finish the bottle... Hopefully by then I can really have some feedback for you.
 
garleo said:
the split has been working out for me, I never prioritized Arms in my life and have seen some gain with this split. I am sure I will need to adjust it as the body gets used to the same workout. Recently trying to stick with the using bars and dumbells for everything and foregoing the machines only to get that final pump at the end of workout. with shoulders, been starting with seated dumbell presses as heavy as I can go for 4 reps then isolation dumbell rear, and side flys. I noticed that really hitting the rear delts has helped my shoulder pain tremendously... maybe had a huge imbalance going with all that pressing all the time, but nothing to hit the rear delts much.

I have a bottle of the Alpha Max XT should be the new version. First day, I could feel something new pumping around but then it calmed down until week 2. I have made some strength gains.. nothing out of this world win the past week, and I can say I could see that I could push just a little more.

Recovery has been fine too... only DOMS i have felt in the past 2 weeks was after a heavy leg day ( Squats , Stiff leg Hamstring Pulls, Leg Extension, Leg Curls, ending with Sissy squats for that last pump and moving to calf raises) but I'm sure it didn't help that the next day I rode a bike with the wife.... That night and following day was Leg DOMs Central.. I may have been low on the water intake that day though....

My plan is to do 30 days, then take about 2 wks off and then finish the bottle... Hopefully by then I can really have some feedback for you.
Click to expand...

Looking forward to hearing your feedback. I ran into a similar issue with crazy DOMS the other day too. I trained legs HARD Monday morning, and went for a jog with a friend that night just for the hell of it and ended up clocking about 3 miles. Tuesday I was barely able to walk haha, it was insane.

Hopefully you'll begin to feel Alphamax XT more toward the 3rd week of the run, I felt it kick in right around week 3 in terms of strength and vascularity. The ashwagandha really seemed to help with stress and recovery throughout my 4 week run which I enjoyed a lot. Alphamax isn't comparable to any type of anabolic obviously, but for a natural supplement I feel like it is very beneficial from a variety of different angles
 
I didn't want to seem like I said that your workout was not adequate. I just wanted to ensure you knew the pros and cons of your split. That being, yours arms will be the focal point in growth retention during cut but the load on the anterior deltoid may be diminished. On average you are looking at about 20% less load. (Also full, rounded shoulders can be a hard to keep at lower body fats) To compensate this as you get down in bf, if you see/feel a size decrease in anterior, then start with chest day incline bench press with dumbells. I say dumbbells because your shoulders will be required to work at a greater rate with stabilization. You can also increase 5° on the incline, depending on how much incline you currently do. (5° is normally one peg on the bench) this is all for future thought though.

You definitely are not a beginner and you are going to see some great results. Keep us posted with a minimum of weekly weight averages and strength increase/decrease. We can help you keep on a steady track, if not to only reassure you. I know the first time I cut it was a mind game. You feel great one day because you are looking great and carp the next because you feel like your hard earned muscle is wasting.
 
Just a quick update, been losing about 1 lb a week now (down to 176) and seeing some strength gains still. Been owning 315 squats x 3 sets, Stiff Leg DL with 225, Inclines with 205lbs for 4-6 and Bent Over BB Rows with 205lb.

I did go out for a Restaurant Dinner (2 Saturday's in a Row) now, so may have helped with energy since I def went over the 1800 Carbs that day I was getting pretty beat up by trying to keep increasing the poundage

I stopped taking the AlphaMax for 2 days last weekend and I don't know was... maybe mental... but felt like i needed to keep going. It was weird... maybe just mental or something?... so I will am continuing for 6 wks and take a break.

I think I'm going to switch my training up too as I want to really start to concentrate on losing the fat. looking at switching to

15 min Cardio Pre and Post workout with 5 min increase per week for 4 weeks.

Back and Biceps
Delts and Tri
Rest (30 min Cardio)
Legs
Chest and Calves
Rest (30 min Cardio)
Rest (30 min Cardio)

should kick the fat burning into the next gear... and hopefully not lose too much muscle though. Will take the Workout weight down to a weight that I can get 8-10 reps on heaviest set with strict form vs the 4 rep max now.

what do you guys think?
 
I think that's a good setup to try out. I always prefer the hypertrophy rep range while cutting (8-12 reps) over the strength/power rep range. I find that I maintain muscle better, and I don't kill myself as much during my training.

One suggestion for the cardio though, I would only add in the extra cardio at the end of your workouts. Frontloading your workouts with cardio will leave you with less energy to move the iron during your training. I think 15 minutes as a warmup is good, but I wouldn't add in any extra before lifting. Add it in as needed post workout.

Sounds like you're enjoying Alphamax too, which is great news. Recomp results look like they're going very well. Any other updates as far as physique improvements, recovery, etc. since starting Alphamax?
 
There are two types of muscle hypertrophy. Myofibrillar which is the growth of the fibers themselves and Sarcoplasmic which is the growth of the storage within the fibers i.e. glycogen, water, minerals. Myofibrillar is reached primarily through progressive tension overload and Sarcaplasmic is achieved through higher volume. I am going to apply these two principles of hypertrophy to examples.

1. If a trainer uses higher volume work while cutting then he is targeting the Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. This will require the body to attempt to store more glycogen(carbs) in the muscle fibers so the next time the body needs the energy to perform high volume work it is there. The trainer does not have the adequate diet to achieve higher storage and the muscles hypertrophy stays stagnate. After a few weeks the body recognizes the reduce load on the muscles and the reduces the requirement to obtain size likewise. The trainer loses muscle mass.

2. Our trainer uses mainly compound movements with progressive loads on body while cutting. This activates the Myofibrillar hypertrophy of the body and though the fibers do not have the adequate amount of nutrients during the cut to produce larger muscle fibers, the body does recognize the need for increased load on the muscles and tries to keep as much mass as possible. Our trainer reduces his muscle lost through cutting significantly.

I have no problem with your routine, I just thought I would put a little fact behind why i say that progressive tension overload while cutting. It is always nice to have two different views and examples of pros and cons.
 
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