Kicker vs Finisher

SD at start or end of cycle?

  • Kickstart is my preference

    Votes: 6 60.0%
  • Finisher is my preference

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • It does not matter

    Votes: 1 10.0%

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .
benjamfzb

benjamfzb

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Hi all,

I am planning to do 8 weeks of Nano1t + Androtest. I am debating between doing SD+Trenavar either the first or last 4 weeks. I have PM'd a few members and the general consensus seems to be it doesnt really matter gains wise. So heres my question, which do you PREFER? (Not sure if I created the poll right)

I was under the impression it was best to finish with the SD as shutdown would occur slower. However, a few members made the valid point that if you start with SD then follow up with 4 weeks of 4ad+1t it may be easier to keep the gains.

Another concern for me is that immediately after the cycle I plan to head to Rock Ville in Jacksonville then spend a week in Miami. Last time I did Msten and felt nauseous even a week or 2 into PCT. I dont really want to feel sick and will want to drink on this vacay. Not binge, but def a few on the beach. For this reason I am inclined to kick off the cycle with SD hoping the nausea goes away by week 8.


Again, just asking what you all PREFER as in what feels the best. Gains will probably be the same I imagine.
 
Old Witch

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I would say kick off with the SD and add the trenavar as the finisher.
 
benjamfzb

benjamfzb

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I would say kick off with the SD and add the trenavar as the finisher.
I never regret making threads on this board. Clever. Plus I have a bottle of Super Epi Elite kicking around I could use IF I wanted to.
 
Renew1

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Brother, I don't know what your experience level is, but your list of orals is getting larger by the minute, it seems.
:)
 
benjamfzb

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Brother, I don't know what your experience level is, but your list of orals is getting larger by the minute, it seems.
:)
Not at all! Its been sitting in my kitchen cabinet for a year. Theres tons more, too. I buy everything in bulk. :)
 
Renew1

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Not at all! Its been sitting in my kitchen cabinet for a year. Theres tons more, too. I buy everything in bulk. :)
LOL.
I only meant that you don't necessarily have to throw every oral into this one cycle.
You've definitely got a few very strong orals there. If it were me, I wouldn't overdo the orals ...... Especially if you're planning on doing some drinking immediately after the cycle.
Just my opinion.
 
benjamfzb

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LOL.
I only meant that you don't necessarily have to throw every oral into this one cycle.
You've definitely got a few very strong orals there. If it were me, I wouldn't overdo the orals ...... Especially if you're planning on doing some drinking immediately after the cycle.
Just my opinion.
Yeah I didnt plan it. Just figured id bring up that its available i.e as a substitution.
 
Jinsun

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Well it makes more sense to use the strongest compounds towards the end due to AR adaptation.
 
Hyde

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Well it makes more sense to use the strongest compounds towards the end due to AR adaptation.
This was what was impressed on me by the late Snags, R.I.P. big guy.

You want to keep gains going on a cycle, the overall anabolic level needs to keep rising to offset adaptation. Losing waterweight at end of cycle shouldn’t be as important as prioritizing overall time actually spent building real muscle tissue.

The only reason guys run kickers is because their longer injectable esters haven’t built up yet, or they don’t know better.

Shoot your heaviest artillery at the finale.
 
Old Witch

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This was what was impressed on me by the late Snags, R.I.P. big guy.

You want to keep gains going on a cycle, the overall anabolic level needs to keep rising to offset adaptation. Losing waterweight at end of cycle shouldn’t be as important as prioritizing overall time actually spent building real muscle tissue.

The only reason guys run kickers is because their longer injectable esters haven’t built up yet, or they don’t know better.

Shoot your heaviest artillery at the finale.
Well... trenavar is more anabolic (and far more androgenic as well) than superdrol if you take enough of it. That’s basically where I was going, most guys can’t even do four weeks on SD so chancing ruining the finale would not be worth using superdrol at the end IMO.
 
Mathb33

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I think both are great but my point in the other thread was you’re gonna have a much harder time holding onto those SD gains if it’s at the end of your cycle versus still having Anabolics in you for 4-6 more weeks helping your body adjust to new(and fast) LBM from the SD. Then again I think everyone is different!
 
Hyde

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Well... trenavar is more anabolic (and far more androgenic as well) than superdrol if you take enough of it. That’s basically where I was going, most guys can’t even do four weeks on SD so chancing ruining the finale would not be worth using superdrol at the end IMO.
No I think that’s a fine idea. Tren would definitely accomplish this at the right dose.

I think both are great but my point in the other thread was you’re gonna have a much harder time holding onto those SD gains if it’s at the end of your cycle versus still having Anabolics in you for 4-6 more weeks helping your body adjust to new(and fast) LBM from the SD. Then again I think everyone is different!
Sure, I’d agree with that overall. But what I have seen lately is new guys taking 8-12 wks of LGD and they put their bottle of DMZ on the front half, for example. No good reason for that, unless you’re gonna crank the LGD dose up a lot after the DMZ-inclusive leg of the cycle.
 
Nac

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I generally prefer to frontload the long esters and use orals as closers.

If you "prime" before your blast/cycle, a kicker can become even less beneficial relatively speaking.
 
Jinsun

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Well... trenavar is more anabolic (and far more androgenic as well) than superdrol if you take enough of it. That’s basically where I was going, most guys can’t even do four weeks on SD so chancing ruining the finale would not be worth using superdrol at the end IMO.
Yeah, that's also a big one to consider. I lasted 16 days on SD at 20mg, that's it. YMMV though...

OP do you have experience with SD? If not, I think it would be better to start the cycle with it and do not exceed 15mg or maybe even 10mg. I was feeling lethargic even at 15mg. (SD was Magnus) Then add other orals at a higher dosage.

Also, I would never run all this orals without a test base. You'll be shutdown completely by the end of week 2 on SD plus the other oral. So just pin a bit of test and hcg eod and you'll feel much better.
 
benjamfzb

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I have not. Ran 22.5mg msten with 115mg trenavar 4 months ago though. Assuming itll be similar but a bit worst.

10mg pills. Methdrol. So 10 to 20 most of the run to 30 if i can handle it but im fairly confident in myself.

I appreciate the concern but lets not derail too much off topic. Just looking for votes really. Just because my 2 friends ran it with 4ad for 4 weeks and didnt stop drinking doesnt mean im taking it lightly.
 
Jinsun

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I have not. Ran 22.5mg msten with 115mg trenavar 4 months ago though. Assuming itll be similar but a bit worst.

10mg pills. Methdrol. So 10 to 20 most of the run to 30 if i can handle it but im fairly confident in myself.

I appreciate the concern but lets not derail too much off topic. Just looking for votes really. Just because my 2 friends ran it with 4ad for 4 weeks and didnt stop drinking doesnt mean im taking it lightly.
How is what we are talking about OT exactly? Imo it's actually exactly on topic. We are debating if you should run SD at the end or the start and are giving arguments towards the one or the other end, so you can make a decision for your self. No need to thank anybody lol

Anyway, do not underestimate the lethargy from SD. It's like nothing else, like clinical level of lethargy. Imo pure SD, not under dosed tablets and other chit, will run most down at 20mg. I gave mine to a friend, he also quit after 2 weeks at 20mg. It's no joke.
 
RickyBlobby

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benjamfzb

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How is what we are talking about OT exactly? Imo it's actually exactly on topic. We are debating if you should run SD at the end or the start and are giving arguments towards the one or the other end, so you can make a decision for your self. No need to thank anybody lol

Anyway, do not underestimate the lethargy from SD. It's like nothing else, like clinical level of lethargy. Imo pure SD, not under dosed tablets and other chit, will run most down at 20mg. I gave mine to a friend, he also quit after 2 weeks at 20mg. It's no joke.
I did not mean to be rude at all. But I started the thread to see whats peoples timing PREFERENCE is with any DS or AAS cycle. Not just SD.
The information is welcome but I dont necessarily want this to turn into a cycle critique thread which always seems to turn into "Do u even have a SERM bro". Which in a way is nice since it saves some peoples nuts. Post was fine, just saw a potential for derailing.

Anyway, ya I am going in expecting it to be worst. Will taper up as I have gotten a hint of feeling like **** from Msten and Alpha. Pretty sure Fusions Methdrol isnt bunk. I know 2 newbie friends who dont listen to advice do 30/30/30/30 with 375/375/375 of 4ad for 4 weeks. Made great gains even while drinking every weekend and only complained about mild loss of appetite and feeling depressed. It seems like a hit of miss for lethargy but again - going in fully expecting to feel like my hotel rooms toilet after hitting up the spiciest chinese buffet of my life last summer.
 

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