Keto after PCT

[warren123]

I've searched around the internet and couldn't find much on this. I recently finished an hdrol cycle, up 12 lbs and my PCT is over, just tapering off the erase atm.

I want to try Keto since I know it will help lose any fat I have. I plan on waiting another week or 2 until I start this so I don't jump right in. Is there a suggested time frame post PCT to start?

Also, on Keto what if I still eat at maintenance but just low carb, will this suffice or is it unnecessary?

5'11 212 right now btw.

 

[heavylifter33]

You mean Keto as in ketosis or as in Ketotifen?

 

[Celorza]

Yeah if you mean a Keto diet , I don't recon you should wait much , but recommended would be keep stuff at maintenance and normal (usual) macros for you at the moment for at least:

Time of cycle+time on pct=time off/2

So at least half the time off a cycle's "time off before another one" To give your body a chance to get back to normal Homeostasis and not get all freaked out in the change of nutrition...well just my personal opinion at least.

 

[jbonez]

You mean Keto as in ketosis or as in Ketotifen?

^^^ golden question

 

[warren123]

Yes, keto diet. Sorry I didn't clarify.

Would it be worth it eating at maintenance while doing this at first? I'm not sure the effect it would have right away and obviously i'd like to continue to hold on to as much as possible from the cycle.

 

[Celorza]

Yes, keto diet. Sorry I didn't clarify.

Would it be worth it eating at maintenance while doing this at first? I'm not sure the effect it would have right away and obviously i'd like to continue to hold on to as much as possible from the cycle.

I think its best you start at maintenance or slightly above , reason being body has to undergo the process of Ketosis and if you are not used to it might start catabolizing muscle before producing extra glucagon to use the fats as the primary energy source. You do not want to lose the gains , its best to start at maintenance in Keto and then go dropping kCals little by little as to not have deep impact on muscle mass oO...of course this is just my opinion based on the ON paper stuff I have seen...I've never gone keto myself oO

 

[warren123]

I think its best you start at maintenance or slightly above , reason being body has to undergo the process of Ketosis and if you are not used to it might start catabolizing muscle before producing extra glucagon to use the fats as the primary energy source. You do not want to lose the gains , its best to start at maintenance in Keto and then go dropping kCals little by little as to not have deep impact on muscle mass oO...of course this is just my opinion based on the ON paper stuff I have seen...I've never gone keto myself oO

Yeah, good idea. I've read many positive things about this and wanted to see how my body would react to it. With my PCT over I wanted to look into something for the future to do.

Thanks a lot bro.

 

[Celorza]

Focus right now on letting your body get back to normal , even after PCT your body is still getting back to its usual homeostasis , and ketosis (by some authors only , not me) has been compared to starvation due to the stress it is for the body to be in it for a long time. I don't see anything wrong personally with Keto diets , on paper it looks perfect if you know your body well enough to go into it , but yeah, you gotta keep a good eye out for cholesterol and triglycerides and all that fun stuff haha.

 

[jbonez]

Also, do more research on keto. Keto is not a low-carb diet, its a no-carb diet. The daily allotment of carbs for Keto and low-carb diets are VERY different, thats the whole point of Keto vs. something like atkins. I would have to say that keto during PCT probably isn't the best idea to me, maybe after your PCT is fine. I also lift hard during PCT to keep my gains, and lifting hard on Keto is difficult considering you don't feel like doing anything productive on that diet ever.

 

[warren123]

Also, do more research on keto. Keto is not a low-carb diet, its a no-carb diet. The daily allotment of carbs for Keto and low-carb diets are VERY different, thats the whole point of Keto vs. something like atkins. I would have to say that keto during PCT probably isn't the best idea to me, maybe after your PCT is fine. I also lift hard during PCT to keep my gains, and lifting hard on Keto is difficult considering you don't feel like doing anything productive on that diet ever.

I finished my pct last week, I know it's no carb, my mistake on that. My lifts have leveled out as strength went down a little but not too much...libido is back and I feel pretty good.

 

[Celorza]

Also, do more research on keto. Keto is not a low-carb diet, its a no-carb diet. The daily allotment of carbs for Keto and low-carb diets are VERY different, thats the whole point of Keto vs. something like atkins. I would have to say that keto during PCT probably isn't the best idea to me, maybe after your PCT is fine. I also lift hard during PCT to keep my gains, and lifting hard on Keto is difficult considering you don't feel like doing anything productive on that diet ever.

Please whatever happens do not listen to someone who doesn't know what the f*ck he is talking about , PCT is not about lifting HARD , or going BALLS TO WALL ON CARIO , its a time to recover and doing stuff like "lifting hard to keep my gains" or "more cardio to just keep the lean and get rid of the fat on pct" is more than an idiocy , its just plain retarded , on PCT all you should focus is eat at maintenance or more , lift to keep the blood flowing to the muscles , and cardio should be done for health or recreational porpoises and NOT to burn fat...jeez when will people do proper research before opening their mouths for advice or before doing sh*t like this?...

 

[Celorza]

I finished my pct last week, I know it's no carb, my mistake on that. My lifts have leveled out as strength went down a little but not too much...libido is back and I feel pretty good.

To be on keto , complex carbs should be avoided , fibrous carbs from veggies are OK , but keep them to LESS than 50-75g a day , so your body needs to produce excess glucagon to break down the fats and use them as main energy source , it is NO carb , in the aspect of NO complex carbs , NO simple carbs , NO sugars...or at least try to keep them to the minimum , example being the trace carbs in veggies , natural peanut/almond butter and almond milk or stuff like that...don't let them even reach 50g and keep fats HIGH at all times...some "rules of thumb" people like to follow is:

Grams of protein= 3x BW in Kilograms
or
Grams of protein= 2x BW in Pounds

And the rest of the calories required for the desired level (surplus , maintenance or deficit) should come from FATS , healthy fats , saturated , poly and mono sat fats mainly...

 

[warren123]

To be on keto , complex carbs should be avoided , fibrous carbs from veggies are OK , but keep them to LESS than 50-75g a day , so your body needs to produce excess glucagon to break down the fats and use them as main energy source , it is NO carb , in the aspect of NO complex carbs , NO simple carbs , NO sugars...or at least try to keep them to the minimum , example being the trace carbs in veggies , natural peanut/almond butter and almond milk or stuff like that...don't let them even reach 50g and keep fats HIGH at all times...some "rules of thumb" people like to follow is:

Grams of protein= 3x BW in Kilograms
or
Grams of protein= 2x BW in Pounds

And the rest of the calories required for the desired level (surplus , maintenance or deficit) should come from FATS , healthy fats , saturated , poly and mono sat fats mainly...

Thoughts on something like this:

Breakfast: 3 eggs, 3 egg whites, scoop of peanut butter.
Snack: Lowest carb protein powder+greek yogurt
Lunch: Chicken/fish with green veggies
Snack: protein powder+peanut butter
Dinner: Chicken/lean ground beef+pinto beans and some almonds

I can throw in real food opposed to the whey but just wanted a suggestion

 

[Celorza]

Thoughts on something like this:

Breakfast: 3 eggs, 3 egg whites, scoop of peanut butter.
Snack: Lowest carb protein powder+greek yogurt
Lunch: Chicken/fish with green veggies
Snack: protein powder+peanut butter
Dinner: Chicken/lean ground beef+pinto beans and some almonds

I can throw in real food opposed to the whey but just wanted a suggestion

Ah yeah...no...Drop the powders , specially on keto you need REAL WHOLE FOODS , and don't go with lean cuts , go for fatty cuts of beef , go for salmon , chicken , get the thighs the drumsticks the wings specially , greek yogurt/cottage cheese/milk/dairy would be a no in my account , if you want a strict keto diet , being that this have SUGARS in them , lactose is a form of sugar , their carbs are purely sugary treats to take yah outta ketosis (I think this , not supported by the FDA lol) , good breakfast , add extra virgin olive oil , extra virgin coconut oil , fish oil , specially for the greens , can throw in ranch/cesar dressing , get the ones with no carbs and only fats! , get MAYO! the carbless or least carb kind , good fats in there too...hm...almonds/peanuts and stuff like that I would say keep it to a minimum because they do have carbs in them but do have them from time to time , and schedule refeeds of carbs every weekend or every other weekend , so 1-2 days of eating complex carbs with as MINIMUM FATS as you can , so as to refill your glycogen stores , this is normal.

 

[warren123]

Ah yeah...no...Drop the powders , specially on keto you need REAL WHOLE FOODS , and don't go with lean cuts , go for fatty cuts of beef , go for salmon , chicken , get the thighs the drumsticks the wings specially , greek yogurt/cottage cheese/milk/dairy would be a no in my account , if you want a strict keto diet , being that this have SUGARS in them , lactose is a form of sugar , their carbs are purely sugary treats to take yah outta ketosis (I think this , not supported by the FDA lol) , good breakfast , add extra virgin olive oil , extra virgin coconut oil , fish oil , specially for the greens , can throw in ranch/cesar dressing , get the ones with no carbs and only fats! , get MAYO! the carbless or least carb kind , good fats in there too...hm...almonds/peanuts and stuff like that I would say keep it to a minimum because they do have carbs in them but do have them from time to time , and schedule refeeds of carbs every weekend or every other weekend , so 1-2 days of eating complex carbs with as MINIMUM FATS as you can , so as to refill your glycogen stores , this is normal.

Great stuff, I'm going to continue to research. Thanks a lot!

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

I am doing this right now....just got off of PCT 1 1/2 weeks ago, and I went right into a modified keto diet immediately after PCT....I'll do 30-50 gram carb days for 2-3 days in a row, then a 200-250 carb day....then another 2-3 ultra low carb days.....then a 200-250 carb day.....I made sure I'm on osta-rx as the anabolic aid, reduce XT as the cortisol control, and forma-stanzol as the anti-estrogen. What I do is mostly eat around maintenance (which seems to be only 1800-1900 cals for me), then have days a bit under maintenance, and the high carb days of course are a bit above maintenance....so I've been mixing it up. I'm going to use this approach in july as well on ABv3/Beastdrol, same diet scheme but maybe +400-500 cals each day for a lean bulk type deal. But I don't see ANY problems so far, actually I feel great and everything looks good. If you are recovered from PCT, there is not much more you can do at that point....time to start working out and dieting like normal, you can't keep pu$$yfooting around after PCT...just do it.....

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

BTW......I take a protein shake of 50 grams protein every morning.....so powders are fine, but probably limited to once per day....then make sure to hit the fatty proteins and the like....eating a majority of whole foods is best as noted above, but I wouldn't say NO powders.....but you do have to get with the sausage and bacon and cheese and red meat, all that "nasty" stuff that has more fat than protein but still is packed with protein ....its hard to adjust mentally to the high protein/higher fat foods since it seems "wrong"....but physically its super easy....I can eat sausage and bacon and eggs and cheese etc all day long lol....

 

[darsh89]

If I were you I would reduce carbs over a couple of weeks and work your way into keto. Just because your done with pct doesnt mean youve solidifed gains. you put on 12 pounds in a 6 or so week cycle + 4 weeks pct so almost 12 pounds in under 3 months, not long enough to solidify gains. Maybe decrease carbs by like 50 a week until you get to under 30 a day for your keto diet. i ran a keto style diet 3 weeks after pct for my last hdrol cycle and had decent results for the month i ran it, carb up day every 4th day. I ate about 500 above maintenance though but still leaned out alot, likely from losing some glycogen, but i would still consider it successful. The first week was different adjusting to it, felt kinda weak, but after that i realy enjoyed it

 

[warren123]

I am doing this right now....just got off of PCT 1 1/2 weeks ago, and I went right into a modified keto diet immediately after PCT....I'll do 30-50 gram carb days for 2-3 days in a row, then a 200-250 carb day....then another 2-3 ultra low carb days.....then a 200-250 carb day.....I made sure I'm on osta-rx as the anabolic aid, reduce XT as the cortisol control, and forma-stanzol as the anti-estrogen. What I do is mostly eat around maintenance (which seems to be only 1800-1900 cals for me), then have days a bit under maintenance, and the high carb days of course are a bit above maintenance....so I've been mixing it up. I'm going to use this approach in july as well on ABv3/Beastdrol, same diet scheme but maybe +400-500 cals each day for a lean bulk type deal. But I don't see ANY problems so far, actually I feel great and everything looks good. If you are recovered from PCT, there is not much more you can do at that point....time to start working out and dieting like normal, you can't keep pu$$yfooting around after PCT...just do it.....

Lol @ last part. I just wanted to make sure I'm good to go and it's enough wait. I won't cut out all carbs completely I'll carb up a little more often like you do, 2x a week you wrote. Thanks man, this looks good and I'll see how I feel and hopefully find a good balance. Thanks bro.

 

[warren123]

If I were you I would reduce carbs over a couple of weeks and work your way into keto. Just because your done with pct doesnt mean youve solidifed gains. you put on 12 pounds in a 6 or so week cycle + 4 weeks pct so almost 12 pounds in under 3 months, not long enough to solidify gains. Maybe decrease carbs by like 50 a week until you get to under 30 a day for your keto diet. i ran a keto style diet 3 weeks after pct for my last hdrol cycle and had decent results for the month i ran it, carb up day every 4th day. I ate about 500 above maintenance though but still leaned out alot, likely from losing some glycogen, but i would still consider it successful. The first week was different adjusting to it, felt kinda weak, but after that i realy enjoyed it

Yes I was thinking if I ate at or a little above while doing this what my results would be. I'll start a little over or just at and see what happens. Would you mind giving a little insight on what you'd eat on a regular day and possibly a carb up day? I see a lot of different things so I'd like to know what is working for you. Thank you!

 

[darsh89]

Yes I was thinking if I ate at or a little above while doing this what my results would be. I'll start a little over or just at and see what happens. Would you mind giving a little insight on what you'd eat on a regular day and possibly a carb up day? I see a lot of different things so I'd like to know what is working for you. Thank you!

I was eating around 3000 cals at the time so my macros came out to be 300 protein, 180 fat, and 30 carbs for a regular day.

I'd eat something like:

breakfast: (6 carbs, 40 fat, 63 protein)

2 tbsp peanut butter
3 egg omelet with cheese
7 slices turkey bacon

During workout: (1 fat, 0 carbs, 12 protein)

half scoop protein

post workout: (63 protein, 6 carbs, 28 fat)

1 a half scoop protein
2 tbsp peanut butter
3 eggs

post post workout: (43 fat, 63 protein, 8 carbs)

-salad with olive oil
-green powder
-8 oz chopped pastrami with cheese

dinner: (38 fat, 67 protein, 5 carbs)

-9 oz top sirloin
-1 tbsp peanut butter
-salad with olive oil

bed (30 fat, 32 protein, 8 carbs)

-2 tbsp peanut butter
-1 scoop protein
-salad with olive oil


on a carb up day id eat around 50-60 grams of fat and close to 400 carbs and 250 protein. i tried to keep them complex carbs but i didnt mind getting some sugars on a carb up day

 

[Celorza]

It seriously cracks me up how people cant leave without protein powders and its just a macronutrient without dense micro-nutrient benefits that whole foods posses...it just makes me laugh how they buy into huge bro-science gimmicks as the "NEED" to have shakes xD

 

[csa2179]

I need to have eggs!!! Just crammed all up in my mouth, everyday!

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

It seriously cracks me up how people cant leave without protein powders and its just a macronutrient without dense micro-nutrient benefits that whole foods posses...it just makes me laugh how they buy into huge bro-science gimmicks as the "NEED" to have shakes xD

You don't "need" a protein shake (where was this stated???)...it's a matter of convenience if you are not hungry or in a rush....must you fly off the handle and make these type posts in EVERY thread??? its still a free country you know...

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Aren't you the guy who never did a keto style diet anyways??

 

[darsh89]

It seriously cracks me up how people cant leave without protein powders and its just a macronutrient without dense micro-nutrient benefits that whole foods posses...it just makes me laugh how they buy into huge bro-science gimmicks as the "NEED" to have shakes xD

i dunno if this was in reference to my post when op asked me to give an example of what i ate, but whats ur point? sure a protein powder is not necessary and could be replaced with whole food, but in the end as long as you are gettign adequate micro and macro nutrients it doesnt matter if its whole food or protein powder, as long as there i some variety. Also, at the times i choose to use protein powder I use it mainly out of convenience, not to mention per gram of protein, powder is considerably cheaper than whole food, which matters to people on a budget lol

 

[heavylifter33]

It seriously cracks me up how people cant leave without protein powders and its just a macronutrient without dense micro-nutrient benefits that whole foods posses...it just makes me laugh how they buy into huge bro-science gimmicks as the "NEED" to have shakes xD

I don't see the gimmick of protein in powder form. Protein in powder form is easy and quick, and when you eat tuna and chicken all day, the cost effectiveness of powders are great, not to mention it's a nice change. Should be careful with blanket statements friend.

 

[jbonez]

Please whatever happens do not listen to someone who doesn't know what the f*ck he is talking about , PCT is not about lifting HARD , or going BALLS TO WALL ON CARIO , its a time to recover and doing stuff like "lifting hard to keep my gains" or "more cardio to just keep the lean and get rid of the fat on pct" is more than an idiocy , its just plain retarded , on PCT all you should focus is eat at maintenance or more , lift to keep the blood flowing to the muscles , and cardio should be done for health or recreational porpoises and NOT to burn fat...jeez when will people do proper research before opening their mouths for advice or before doing sh*t like this?...

First of all, the correct thing to say there is "Please whatever happens do not listen to someone who looks like a struggling 12 year old with old man back muscles." But then again, I wouldn't expect you to know what the proper thing to say is. PCT IS about lifting hard. Idk what cycles you've been taking, but good luck coming off of them and listing 20 lbs. Actually, ur picture makes me think you recreationally lift 20 lbs. w/e you know what I'm saying. Second, you saying "focus is eat at maintenance or more" is retarded. eating at maintenance would be counterproductive, you should ONLY be eating more than maintenance.

Third, and funniest of all, is when you recommend 50-75 grams of carbs a day. Don't be a hypocrite. You yell at people that don't do research and then you don't know a thing. Keto is no-carb. Every time I do it, I strive for 10 g a day. You are not supposed to intake ANY direct carbs, you are ONLY supposed to take in carbs associated with direct fat & protein sources.

Lastly, no need to rep me. some other skinny weak dou***bag already did that.

 

[warren123]

Today I started changing my diet towards this:

Breakfast: (750 cals, 60g fat, 50 protein, 11 carbs)
4 eggs, 4 slices turkey bacon, 2 slices muenster cheese, peanut butter

Lunch: (440 cals, 15g fat 54 protein, 4 carbs)
Grilled chicken with melted cheese

Snack: (140 cals, 10g fat, 13 protein, 0 carbs)
Tuna+mayo

Post workout140 cals, 2g fat, 25 protein, 4 carbs)
whey

Dinner: (580 cals, 46g fat, 46 protein, 0 carbs)
Ground beef+something else I'm not sure of yet

I'm at 2050 cals, 133 fat 158 protein 19 carbs

I'm 5'11, 212. I tried looking up how many calories I should be taking in and online it ranges between 2500-3500 lol. I usually eat around 3k and don't gain nor lose weight. I'll add another serving onto dinner to give me an extra 300 cals and 23 protein and see what else is needed.