Keepable gains

[Kratom267]

Just curious on every one’s opinions on which PH offers the best “keepable” gains.
Let’s set aside perfect training and diet for now...though they of course come in to play, but as far as the compound itself, which PH or oral, run at decent dosage and duration, won’t just deflate after PCT as easily as others?

Share your personal experience with whichever one gets your vote

 

[bradleyt1]

I too am eager not only for most keepable gains but least sides. Kratom267, I believe you are currently running halodrol no? Currently all I run is TRT at 300mg per week but rather than upping the dose of test to say 500 or so I think maybe I can add a mild ph or something like halodrol? I have tried upping the test before but believe it or not I start to feel ****tier.. it’s been almost two years or more since adding any compounds other than test because I had panic attacks and have been scared ever since.

 

[Kratom267]

I too am eager not only for most keepable gains but least sides. Kratom267, I believe you are currently running halodrol no? Currently all I run is TRT at 300mg per week but rather than upping the dose of test to say 500 or so I think maybe I can add a mild ph or something like halodrol? I have tried upping the test before but believe it or not I start to feel ****tier.. it’s been almost two years or more since adding any compounds other than test because I had panic attacks and have been scared ever since.

Yes sir, TRT (100mg once per week) with Hdrol (only 50 mg for now) and gotta say, the combo is a night and day difference compared to past pre-TRT halo/any PH cycles! Very nice, even with only low dose halo. Interested to see how this goes with some of the other stuff I have in my stash for next year or two...

Interested to see how much easier it is to hold on to muscle after I finish this cycle. TRT has it’s pros and cons but not having to mess with PCT is pretty nice

 

[Rad83]

EpiAndro,...I’ve ran AndroHard twice now, and while the gains have been minimal, I’ve kept them with intense full body workouts and food. ...It probably has a lot to do with how close you are to your natural limit. If you’re well over, I doubt you’re keeping much...but I’m not experienced with that.

Keep a log book and make sure you’re always moving forward, more weight or at least more reps.

*Edit, didn’t know bout trt...Hexadrone sounds like a good option for ya! I’m considering it this summer...

 

[Old Witch]

Anavar 50-100mg six-eight weeks minimum. Could gain as much as 20 keepable pounds if you play your cards right. More likely 10-12

M1T 20mg 2-3 weeks. Eat everything in sight and lift as heavy and as much as you can. You’ll stand to lose a good amount of what you gain, but you also keep a whole lot of it too as long as you keep up the eating and training. Could gain up to 5lbs PER DAY on M1T after about day three.

Primo ace tablets, usually these are for women. 16-20 weeks, solid steady gains. Every bit of it very retainable. Men need 500mg minimum per day.

 

[Mitch_310]

Basically any dry lean muscle building compound will give you longer lasting gains off cycle. Basically, it’ll take you longer to lose size cause all the weight gained will be pure muscle. A lot of what you maintain depends how you cycle off and how you bounce back, as well as how advanced you are. You will lose some gains no matter what, but you can keep a lot of it until your next cycle (which everyone ends up going back on at some point lol)

For legal phs: 1-andro, Epi andro
Sarms: rad140, ostarine, s4

Personally, I went off a 10 week sarm cycle a while back and maintained about 85% of my gains made 4 months post cycle (I also was in season at that time, and cardio was my main priority, but still lifted as much as I could). Weight didn’t change but I did swap out some muscle for fat. Maybe a 1-2 pounds of muscle lost at most.

I didn’t really lose strength. I notice the thing that really hits you hardest is the look that the drugs give you. For example any dht compound or a sarm like s4 pretty much keeps you full and rock solid, but also helps keep you super lean at the same time if diet is good. Pretty much, this will automatically give you the illusion you’re way bigger than you actually Are.

I was sitting around 173-174lbs shredded at 5’9 on a small frame. I’m not at my natural limit by any means, but I think I’m fairly close at this point. Anyways, guys at the gym thought I was easily 185. The drugs give you that pop and crazy look, (just like all the fake nattys on insta and YouTube) once that’s gone within a week or 2 once you get off depending how fast the drugs leave your body, you look worse almost instantaneously. I didn’t lose any strength or weight and I found that I looked like I had lost about 5lbs of Muscle while off despite doing the same workouts and having the same stats. So keep that in mind. It’s all about the look, and it makes a huge difference of on vs off

 

[Borashi]

Besides that look, I feel changing your diet off cycle to more omega based high fat high protein no carbs helps maintain that shredded look.

 

[Mathb33]

Once you hit your own genetics plateau ain’t much you’re gonna hold after cycle brotha. Some people will say otherwise but that’s bull**** to me. If you haven’t hit that mark yet then dry gains are definitely keepable with the right diet off cycle. And as mentioned above of course being on trt/ low dose test will completely change that story but I wouldn’t suggest that

 

[Chados]

No muscle you've added is gonna be easier to keep. The more you'll add the more you'll keep. Normally the milder the compound the easier you'll recover which could mean you keep a higher percentage, but since you don't add as much with a mild compound youre still gonna end up with less.


Trest, dmz, sdrol, msten are some that will give you the most muscle.

 

[ValiantThor08]

If you are on TRT permanently, keeping PH gains will be a lot easier than those not on TRT. New data even suggests that steroid use can raise your natural limit of muscle gain.

 

[Kratom267]

Playing around with the idea of running LGD starting at the end of the 6 week Hdrol cycle...possibly run LGD at 8mg for 6 weeks.
Would this help to solidify the gains made from the halo run or would it be better to overlap them at some point? I’m currently on week 2 of Hdrol. (And TRT...forever, not sure why people mention being on TRT for only a period of time, your either running a long cycle or actually on TRT!)

 

[ValiantThor08]

Playing around with the idea of running LGD starting at the end of the 6 week Hdrol cycle...possibly run LGD at 8mg for 6 weeks.
Would this help to solidify the gains made from the halo run or would it be better to overlap them at some point? I’m currently on week 2 of Hdrol. (And TRT...forever, not sure why people mention being on TRT for only a period of time, your either running a long cycle or actually on TRT!)

I've seen some speak of being temporarily on TRT, toying around with the idea of a restart. I don't think you need to add anything to halo to retain gains; it is one of the easiest steroids to retain gains.

 

[Kratom267]

Yeah I know about the dreaded restart! Trial and error fun. Hopefully it never comes to that personally...

Yeah may just keep it simple and stick with halo only for now. Main reason I’m interested in LGD is for osteoporosis. Been reading all the human trial studies...sounds promising. Been to tons of specialists and every endo in town, none can figure out why a healthy young male has osteoporosis/osteopenia in the spine and hip. Tried everything else, one of the main reasons I got on TRT ( besides the borderline low T of course). I’ve heard that after just a year on TRT it has improved bone density from osteoporosis levels to osteopenia level (an improvement), and that’s also been the case with LGD during a couple of studies.
Sorry, rambling...

 

[ValiantThor08]

Yeah I know about the dreaded restart! Trial and error fun. Hopefully it never comes to that personally...

Yeah may just keep it simple and stick with halo only for now. Main reason I’m interested in LGD is for osteoporosis. Been reading all the human trial studies...sounds promising. Been to tons of specialists and every endo in town, none can figure out why a healthy young male has osteoporosis/osteopenia in the spine and hip. Tried everything else, one of the main reasons I got on TRT ( besides the borderline low T of course). I’ve heard that after just a year on TRT it has improved bone density from osteoporosis levels to osteopenia level (an improvement), and that’s also been the case with LGD during a couple of studies.
Sorry, rambling...

Well if there is possibility of improvement with LGD, just weigh risk vs reward and make a jump.

 

[Old Witch]

No muscle you've added is gonna be easier to keep. The more you'll add the more you'll keep. Normally the milder the compound the easier you'll recover which could mean you keep a higher percentage, but since you don't add as much with a mild compound youre still gonna end up with less.


Trest, dmz, sdrol, msten are some that will give you the most muscle.

Well... yes and no. If the new muscle tissue has “normal” glycogen retention then it can be retained. If it has far superhuman glycogen retention you cannot keep all of it no matter what. The glycogen has to drain off. Unless you stay on...

 

[Old Witch]

Generally, the drier the compound you used to gain, the easier those gains are to keep. This is why 1T is considered remarkable. It is very dry, however it adds considerable size and weight over time. Very retainable weight.

 

[RickyBlobby]

For what it’s worth, many members here have ran a serm on cycle and reported a seamless transition into PCT

 

[Chados]

Well... yes and no. If the new muscle tissue has “normal” glycogen retention then it can be retained. If it has far superhuman glycogen retention you cannot keep all of it no matter what. The glycogen has to drain off. Unless you stay on...

Yeah but that's what I said, the more weight gained the more weight lost but having water retention doesn't mean you have muscle.

 

[Old Witch]

Yeah but that's what I said, the more weight gained the more weight lost but having water retention doesn't mean you have muscle.

Well, right.

Though some compounds have their own special exceptions to losing more the more you gain... I remember M1T putting so much weight on there was no way I could lose it all in a couple weeks. Much less piss it out in a day (unlike dianabol)

 

[GreekTheBrick]

I would double TRT dose two weeks before the cycle ends and then, after four weeks I would gradually return to TRT dose. Unless you run something crazy strong, I dont see how you can lose any gains. Mostly the on looks will change

 

[Jstrong20]

The more anabolic the more you will keep. Superdrol, m1t, high doses of test with tren, etc. sure you will lose some by still net the most gains with things like this.

 

[Hyde]

Yeah I know about the dreaded restart! Trial and error fun. Hopefully it never comes to that personally...

Yeah may just keep it simple and stick with halo only for now. Main reason I’m interested in LGD is for osteoporosis. Been reading all the human trial studies...sounds promising. Been to tons of specialists and every endo in town, none can figure out why a healthy young male has osteoporosis/osteopenia in the spine and hip. Tried everything else, one of the main reasons I got on TRT ( besides the borderline low T of course). I’ve heard that after just a year on TRT it has improved bone density from osteoporosis levels to osteopenia level (an improvement), and that’s also been the case with LGD during a couple of studies.
Sorry, rambling...

Look into Raloxifene for bone density.

You may also want to research RAD140 for that, but that could just be my memory toying with me.