Just thought I'd share

[Smont]

After a long conversation this morning with a trainer who's been doing this stuff for over 10 years I asked him what's realistic for actual muscle tissue gained per year

Basically this guy has notes on thousands of clients and the outcome always falls into this range.

His guys will bulk on a reasonable but not rediculous amount of gear for anywhere from 12-24 weeks depending on there goals. They cruise for 5-6 weeks, get bloods and if it looks good they cut for 12-24 weeks on approximately double the amount of gear they used for there bulk. The end outcome usually nets 4-12lbs of stage weight which is about the closest your going to know it's actually muscle tissue. Newer guys might be 10-20lbs of stage weight. Older guys might only be 2-3lbs. But when he averaged everything out it comes to approximately 4-12lbs of tissue per year.

I wanted to share this so that maybe it will help people have realistic expectations of how much muscle your going to shoot for.

Now most of his guys put on 10-50lbs on a bulk without getting fat. Someone might see the scale jump 30+ lbs and stay relatively lean. But it's mostly cosmetic inflated muscles. Not actually tissue. Guys might walk around at 250 off-season lean and look huge and jacked, but those same guys might have to cut to 195-200lbs to get in contest shape even tho they had visible abs at 250.

This all falls in line with what I had some other trainers tell me a while back.

If your never planning on competing then that balloon look might be good for you, I'd be super happy with 220+ lbs with visible abs.

But the moral of the story is, unless you have amazing genetics, and are prepared to use slin, gh and some hefty anabolic doses. Be reasonable with yourself because it's highly unlikely your going to add more then 10-12 lbs of actual muscle in a year

 

[Nac]

A few years ago I would've found those averages depressing. Now, on the contrary. And I totally believe those numbers to be accurate. Especially given I personally wish to stay within the 10-15% bodyfat range at all times, and do not wish to use the typical doses (I'll stick to the very low end) nor orals.

In a way it presents a motivating challenge. Speaking for myself, it'll encourage me to be strategic and disciplined with diet, training, drugs and supplementation in a way that borders on OCD. I mean alternatively, if I could put on 20lbs muscle in a year I could see myself being far less disciplined with those variables.

2-5lb? I'm going to have to fukin *work* for that if I want to hit the upper end.

 

[Smont]

A few years ago I would've found those averages depressing. Now, on the contrary. And I totally believe those numbers to be accurate. Especially given I personally wish to stay within the 10-15% bodyfat range at all times, and do not wish to use the typical doses (I'll stick to the very low end) nor orals.

In a way it presents a motivating challenge. Speaking for myself, it'll encourage me to be strategic and disciplined with diet, training, drugs and supplementation in a way that borders on OCD. I mean alternatively, if I could put on 20lbs muscle in a year I could see myself being far less disciplined with those variables.

2-5lb? I'm going to have to fukin *work* for that if I want to hit the upper end.

Yep, I use to think I could add a easy 20lbs of muscle on cycle, but if it was really 20lbs of muscle i would look like jay Cutler by now. My new goal is to add 20lbs of muscle over the next 3-4 years. That's 20 lbs of pure lean beef, not glycogen. If you look at a 20lb piece of lean steak tenderloin you realize how rediculous it is to think your going to add that to your body in 1 or 2 cycles.

I'm 36, if I can add 20 real lbs of muscle by 40 il be without a doubt the most jacked 40 year old in my town and then I can go into more of a super trt maintenance mode

 

[Whisky]

I’d completely agree with what you’ve laid out and think it’s really useful for people to see.

I definitely had the expectation that a few ph cycles would add 10-20lbs lean mass when I first started.

if I can get as lean as last summer then I’m hoping a really androgen aggressive bulk and relatively high androgen use cut will have added 6-8lbs lean mass and that’s probably me hoping on the high side. I’m also no mass monster.

I enjoy being strong though and gear makes a huge impact on that regardless of adding lean mass

 

[Smont]

I’d completely agree with what you’ve laid out and think it’s really useful for people to see.

I definitely had the expectation that a few ph cycles would add 10-20lbs lean mass when I first started.

if I can get as lean as last summer then I’m hoping a really androgen aggressive bulk and relatively high androgen use cut will have added 6-8lbs lean mass and that’s probably me hoping on the high side. I’m also no mass monster.

I enjoy being strong though and gear makes a huge impact on that regardless of adding lean mass

Everything he said fell in line with what I've heard other ppl that train/coach tell me. A couple things that stood out about this guy that made me listen was that even tho he has over 100 clients at a time, he only takes on 10 that compete so he can be on top of them. He has experience from soccer mom's to amateur heavyweight bodybuilders and even some strongman guys. He's about 2 inches shorter then me and the same weight as me but when we stand side by side we might look similar in a t shirt but in a tank top he looks 20lbs heavier then me. A lot of solid muscle, and he's 10 years older so that's impressive on its own.

When I asked him if he had any advice for me, the first thing he said is what did you eat yesterday, then how bout the day before. He offered to fix up my diet If I bring him a list of everything I eat for the next week or 2 and said if I see him working out by himself to come over and jump in. He knows I'm a painter because I usually have paint all over myself at the gym and we're gonna figure out a trade off for Some guidence this winter. I'm hopping we can come up with a agreement that works for both of us

 

[Whisky]

Everything he said fell in line with what I've heard other ppl that train/coach tell me. A couple things that stood out about this guy that made me listen was that even tho he has over 100 clients at a time, he only takes on 10 that compete so he can be on top of them. He has experience from soccer mom's to amateur heavyweight bodybuilders and even some strongman guys. He's about 2 inches shorter then me and the same weight as me but when we stand side by side we might look similar in a t shirt but in a tank top he looks 20lbs heavier then me. A lot of solid muscle, and he's 10 years older so that's impressive on its own.

When I asked him if he had any advice for me, the first thing he said is what did you eat yesterday, then how bout the day before. He offered to fix up my diet If I bring him a list of everything I eat for the next week or 2 and said if I see him working out by himself to come over and jump in. He knows I'm a painter because I usually have paint all over myself at the gym and we're gonna figure out a trade off for Some guidence this winter. I'm hopping we can come up with a agreement that works for both of us

nice bro. He sounds like a realistic dude and advice from people with that level of experience across the piece is invaluable. Obviously you have great anabolic Knowledge yourself so you’ll know if the suggestions he makes in that regard make sense.

I know for me getting powerlifting programming from a top powerlifter (who coaches others) made a ridiculous difference (added 112 lbs to my total over one 20 week cycle).

 

[Smont]

nice bro. He sounds like a realistic dude and advice from people with that level of experience across the piece is invaluable. Obviously you have great anabolic Knowledge yourself so you’ll know if the suggestions he makes in that regard make sense.

I know for me getting powerlifting programming from a top powerlifter (who coaches others) made a ridiculous difference (added 112 lbs to my total over one 20 week cycle).

I think it would be nice to have someone set me in a direction and hold me accountable to follow the path.

112lbs in 20 weeks is huge, ****, in a year that's a huge jump. Im gonna pm you, got something that might be interesting for you to look at