JUNGLE WARFARE from ALRI
- Thread starter Apowerz6
- Start date
EquinOX
New member
UHCougar05 said:I think the advertising alone would be priceless, on fubar especially. I could see it now: Do you want to get bigger, stronger, faster? Then get FUBAR! I don't think I would be able to read or watch that advertisement with a straight face. Definitely not a knock on you Raven. I would most likely try the supp simply because of the name and ALRI's reputation. But I'll give you props, that has marketing gold written all over it.
FUNNIEST THING I'VE READ ALL DAY!!! LMAO
RAVEN
ALRI
5, I know, what do they do? (LOL)
1) Herbal AR agonist (non-androgenic non-hormonal) and Insulinogenic repartitioning
2) Estrogen modulator for optimized HPTA health and natural androgen to estrogen ratio
3) Free test optimization
4)Pro-hypertrophic receptor modulator
Should be fun, huh? And, yes, it works, but you can be the judge soon. Herbs are good for other things other than spaghetti.
1) Herbal AR agonist (non-androgenic non-hormonal) and Insulinogenic repartitioning
2) Estrogen modulator for optimized HPTA health and natural androgen to estrogen ratio
3) Free test optimization
4)Pro-hypertrophic receptor modulator
Should be fun, huh? And, yes, it works, but you can be the judge soon. Herbs are good for other things other than spaghetti.
Mr.50 said:
bigpetefox
Board Sponsor
Gimmie!!RAVEN said:
Thought I'd throw that out there, can't beat 'em join 'em..
machinehead
Well-known member
RAVEN said:
From the FAQ, 3) is the stuff in ActivaTe. What about the others?
sublimejeh
Well-known member
what should the dosing be?
dark_star
New member
1)Hi Raven I have a question just curious. I mean this is a great product if it is actually true in saying that it has no negative effect on the HPTA whilst it does exert anabolic effect by being a herbal AR atogonist. But wouldn't the body be able to detect that something anabolic is going on and reduce your normal testosterone levels?
Its like the same thing as when 1-AD converts to 1-testosterone, the molecule is different from testosterone and exerts more of an anabolic effect but it doesnt mean if it is different from testosterone that it doesnt cause a HPTA shutdown. I dont know if you know what im saying but if you do could you answer me please? thanks.
2)Also when you say that it is only for 21 years and over is that just for advertising safely right?
3)One last thing, is it suitable for someone with low testosterone levels? would they have more of a benefit or less of a benefit in using this product.
Its like the same thing as when 1-AD converts to 1-testosterone, the molecule is different from testosterone and exerts more of an anabolic effect but it doesnt mean if it is different from testosterone that it doesnt cause a HPTA shutdown. I dont know if you know what im saying but if you do could you answer me please? thanks.
2)Also when you say that it is only for 21 years and over is that just for advertising safely right?
3)One last thing, is it suitable for someone with low testosterone levels? would they have more of a benefit or less of a benefit in using this product.
aequitas
New member
If it binds the androgen receptor it is classified as a steroid. The statement non-hormonal, non-androgenic makes no sense at all. If it enters the cell and binds the androgen receptor then it is a hormone and if it binds the AR to any degree then it will produce some androgenic effects. Altough it is "herbal" (very misleading), it contains some compounds which have steroidal activity.
dark_star
New member
aequitas said:
well I dont think it will be classified as a steroid. A steroid is a lipid characterized by a carbon skeleton with four fused rings and if it is herbal I dont think it will have this structure.
And I do think I trust this company because they seem to be very firm as to say what they are saying.
I would just like to know the answers to my questions above.
The Godfather
Member
You have to remmeber that part of the reason ALRI are calling it non-hormal and non-androgenic is to avoid the negative publicity that the recent designer steriods got and other hormonal products. So I think it is a mixture of marketing and trying to cover themselves.aequitas said:
dark_star
New member
aequitas said:
there are bound to be things out there without the steroid backbone but an AR atogonist.
and at the age of 18 I am considering this because I have low testosterone levels tested. But first in the summer I will get to an endocrinologist to properly sort out my problem. My doctor said my low testosterone levels is normal , and said the range is a bell shaped curve, that really did get me angry since my test result was below the normal range
aequitas
New member
Okay heres a medicinal chemistry lesson. For a substance to have androgenic activity it must contain an androstane steroid skeleton. This is a fact, look it up. Many modifications can be made to result in differences in anabolic/androgenic activity and this is where we get the different steroids available.
To the question...
1) Will the product bind to AR receptors in other tissues besides muscle such as scalp, prostate, hypothalamus, etc?
If it binds the androgen receptor it can and will bind in any tissue that has an androgen receptor, such as any of these you have listed.
How will this contribute to any possible effects or side effects?
If the molecule has a higher anabolic to androgenic ratio, the androgenic side effects will be less prevalent but still there. However, the more androgenic the steroid is it will cause more of the common androgenic side effects. These are male pattern baldness, growth of hair on the face, voice changes, and pre-mature epiphyseal closure (exactly what someone at the age of 18 does not want).
However the only way these side effects will be known is by actually taking it. The compound will be suppressive to some degree if the company supports their claim that the "herbal" supplement does in fact bind the AR.
To the question...
1) Will the product bind to AR receptors in other tissues besides muscle such as scalp, prostate, hypothalamus, etc?
If it binds the androgen receptor it can and will bind in any tissue that has an androgen receptor, such as any of these you have listed.
How will this contribute to any possible effects or side effects?
If the molecule has a higher anabolic to androgenic ratio, the androgenic side effects will be less prevalent but still there. However, the more androgenic the steroid is it will cause more of the common androgenic side effects. These are male pattern baldness, growth of hair on the face, voice changes, and pre-mature epiphyseal closure (exactly what someone at the age of 18 does not want).
However the only way these side effects will be known is by actually taking it. The compound will be suppressive to some degree if the company supports their claim that the "herbal" supplement does in fact bind the AR.
Mr.50
Board Supporter
aequitas,
While I agree in many respects with your above post my next question is what is your view on the theory that though many compounds bind to the same receptor this does not necessarily mean that the DNA/RNA coding that is initiated is the same for all compounds that bind to the same receptor.
For example we know that Clomid and Nolva are both Estrogen receptor agonists (and thus bind to the ER) but it is also known that they have a much lower estrogenic "effect" on the body. So though we have two compounds that both bind to the ER neither creates the same phenotypic presentation of effects. Of course this is the same kind of difference in effects between different androgens. Is it your theory that these phenotypic differneces can be explained wholely by differences in binding affinity? Or is it caused by differences in the anabolic/androgenic ratio? if it is the second case, then what accounts for the difference in the anabolic/androgenic ratio except for two possibilities 1) different binding affinity in different tissues thus leading us back to the question I originally posed about this compound (does it necessarily bind to tissues in other areas of the body); or 2) differences in genomic expression created by different compounds that all bind to the AR?
Mr.50
While I agree in many respects with your above post my next question is what is your view on the theory that though many compounds bind to the same receptor this does not necessarily mean that the DNA/RNA coding that is initiated is the same for all compounds that bind to the same receptor.
For example we know that Clomid and Nolva are both Estrogen receptor agonists (and thus bind to the ER) but it is also known that they have a much lower estrogenic "effect" on the body. So though we have two compounds that both bind to the ER neither creates the same phenotypic presentation of effects. Of course this is the same kind of difference in effects between different androgens. Is it your theory that these phenotypic differneces can be explained wholely by differences in binding affinity? Or is it caused by differences in the anabolic/androgenic ratio? if it is the second case, then what accounts for the difference in the anabolic/androgenic ratio except for two possibilities 1) different binding affinity in different tissues thus leading us back to the question I originally posed about this compound (does it necessarily bind to tissues in other areas of the body); or 2) differences in genomic expression created by different compounds that all bind to the AR?
Mr.50
snakebyte05
Board Supporter
I believe in this thread they stated it could be used during PCT. If it caused shutdown I am not sure why they would state this. ALRI has been a pretty good company and I dont think they are going to shoot themselves in the foot for a few extra dollars.
aequitas
New member
Is it your theory that these phenotypic differneces can be explained wholely by differences in binding affinity? Or is it caused by differences in the anabolic/androgenic ratio?
The anabolic/androgenic ration is changed by altering the substituents on the androstane backbone which results in different binding affinities. Many substitutions such as a 3-keto or 3-alpha-0h result in increased androgenic effects. Removal of the 19-methyl group and addition of the 9-alpha-fluoro increase anabolic effects. In general all of these additions and substitions and the consequent change in the activity of a steroid are measured by tests on lab rats.
if it is the second case, then what accounts for the difference in the anabolic/androgenic ratio except for two possibilities 1) different binding affinity in different tissues thus leading us back to the question I originally posed about this compound (does it necessarily bind to tissues in other areas of the body); or 2) differences in genomic expression created by different compounds that all bind to the AR?
AR are selectively distributed into certain tissues (ie prostate, muscle, etc.) Sensitivity to androgens in different tissues is caused by receptor density. Since there is only one AR known, the effects of different agents are from their binding affinity, which is changed by structure modifications. There are published studies that i can post listing the different binding affinities of the steroids.
I dont know if i completely understood your question but i hope this helps....good discussion btw
The anabolic/androgenic ration is changed by altering the substituents on the androstane backbone which results in different binding affinities. Many substitutions such as a 3-keto or 3-alpha-0h result in increased androgenic effects. Removal of the 19-methyl group and addition of the 9-alpha-fluoro increase anabolic effects. In general all of these additions and substitions and the consequent change in the activity of a steroid are measured by tests on lab rats.
if it is the second case, then what accounts for the difference in the anabolic/androgenic ratio except for two possibilities 1) different binding affinity in different tissues thus leading us back to the question I originally posed about this compound (does it necessarily bind to tissues in other areas of the body); or 2) differences in genomic expression created by different compounds that all bind to the AR?
AR are selectively distributed into certain tissues (ie prostate, muscle, etc.) Sensitivity to androgens in different tissues is caused by receptor density. Since there is only one AR known, the effects of different agents are from their binding affinity, which is changed by structure modifications. There are published studies that i can post listing the different binding affinities of the steroids.
I dont know if i completely understood your question but i hope this helps....good discussion btw
Grunt76
Well-known member
It is a known fact that forskolin can activate the AR, initiate AR upregulation as well as protein synthesis. In Prostate cells only at this point but further research will let us know.
But no matter, forskolin isn't a steroid and yet activates the AR receptor. So here you have ONE example of what we're talking about here: other activators of the AR than steroids. Now if it's possible to do so in prostate cells, is may very well be possible to do so in muscle. Not necessarily by forskolin, but by something yeh that seems possible. Why not?
But no matter, forskolin isn't a steroid and yet activates the AR receptor. So here you have ONE example of what we're talking about here: other activators of the AR than steroids. Now if it's possible to do so in prostate cells, is may very well be possible to do so in muscle. Not necessarily by forskolin, but by something yeh that seems possible. Why not?
aequitas
New member
You definately have a point there, but forskolin and IL-6 are the only two compounds so far discovered that do this. And their specific actions on protein kinase A and cAMP levels allow them to do this, which most likely isnt the case with jungle warfare. Is forskolin in this and what are the other ingredients?
The Godfather
Member
Nobody knows yet I don't thinkaequitas said:
machinehead
Well-known member
WannaBeHulk
rollin' on dubs!
here we go:aequitas said:
Invalid Link Removed
looks like activate with an anti e. i have no idea what the first ingredient listed is though. the half life of the AI included is 8 hours according to the F.A.Q. on alri's website. good to know since ATD half life is still a question, so dosing 3 times per day has you covered around the clock!
Mr.50
Board Supporter
The chemical compound name of the SARM is so far omitted so that it will be more difficult for other companies to copy but what I can tell you is that it is either one of the compounds of the Mormordica extract or of the Coleonol Extract.
the divanilly is the compound similar to Activate and the ADED is, I believe the anti-estrogen.
This leaves the other two actions named to be provided by the two extracts which are a vague description by design to protect from copycats.
Now I am sure that a lot of people are going to say F---- that. If I don't know what it is I won't use it. And I can relate to that but look at it from ALRI's perspective. How can they protect their incom stream if everyone and their brother can steal the product.
Whatever the case I am going to be starting some either the end of this week or the beginning of next and I will log it so I will be happy to be the guinea pig and then we will know if it stands up to the claims.
Mr.50
the divanilly is the compound similar to Activate and the ADED is, I believe the anti-estrogen.
This leaves the other two actions named to be provided by the two extracts which are a vague description by design to protect from copycats.
Now I am sure that a lot of people are going to say F---- that. If I don't know what it is I won't use it. And I can relate to that but look at it from ALRI's perspective. How can they protect their incom stream if everyone and their brother can steal the product.
Whatever the case I am going to be starting some either the end of this week or the beginning of next and I will log it so I will be happy to be the guinea pig and then we will know if it stands up to the claims.
Mr.50
dark_star
New member
Mr.50 said:
hi cheers for your reply, but where did you get that word SARM from? and the two extracts you named do you have any idea what they are?
I did a search on the two Mormordica extract or of the Coleonol Extract and all I found was how it was good at controlling glucose levels and help treating obesity?
prld2gr8ns
Idiot Savant
Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators=SARM
As for the two extracts, I think that could be anybody's guess, just not mine.
As for the two extracts, I think that could be anybody's guess, just not mine.
jasonschaffin
Well-known member
dark_star said:
Yeah unless I am not searching for the right things Mormordica is Bitter Melon (blood sugar control) and Coleonol is Forskolin. Hopefully the extract of the Forskolin is pretty strong because it is the last listed of the 4 and there are only 250 mgs. Still should be a good product if only for the Divanyll and the anti-e though. If anyone figures out new info about these extracts let us know.
Mr.50
Board Supporter
I am not too sure if you guys have been to alri's site in the last few days but the write up and Q&A has been expanded a bit and they have elaborated on what was first there. The Mormordica is in fact an extract which is supposed to account for the SARM compound and also the insulinogenic effect of this product. The last extract that is related to forskolin is supposed to account for increasing receptor sensitivity which would be in keeping with what we know of forskolin's activity.
I will be running the JW as part of my PCT (from my TST cycle) along with IBE's Toremifene, some fenugreek, and Synergy Muscle's Tribulus. Might be overkill but I really want to keep my progress headed in the right direction with summer right around the corner.
Mr.50
I will be running the JW as part of my PCT (from my TST cycle) along with IBE's Toremifene, some fenugreek, and Synergy Muscle's Tribulus. Might be overkill but I really want to keep my progress headed in the right direction with summer right around the corner.
Mr.50
jasonschaffin
Well-known member
Alright then, I will have to go check their website again. A SARM would be awesome. I will have to give this product a try sometime soon hopefully.
CDB
Registered User
Been digging for a bit and the study below is the only thing on bitter melon and a possible androgenic effect. Pretty weak.
Also thought this link would be of interest to you guys, though not necessarily related, momordica is mentioned on the list.
Invalid Link Removed
Effect of graded doses of Momordica charantia seed extract on rat sperm: scanning electron microscope study.
Girini MM, Ahamed RN, Aladakatti RH.
Department of Post-Graduate Studies & Research in Zoology Karnatak University, Dharwad 580003, India.
Morphological changes in sperm of albino rats observed under scanning electron microscopy illustrate the disturbance in the plasma membrane as well as in the acrosomal membrane on treatment with effect of graded doses of alcohol seed extract from Momordica charantia. Considerable changes in the shape and size of the sperm head were observed, with the middle region of the sperm head being slightly constricted dorsoventrally. Most sperm appeared morphologically abnormal in the mid-region of the tail, with formation of a balloon-like cytoplasmic droplet. The results of this study suggest that such effects may have resulted from a general disturbance in proteins and an alteration in the cauda epididymal milieu, probably due to androgen deficiency consequent to the anti-androgenic property of Momordica charantia seeds.
Also thought this link would be of interest to you guys, though not necessarily related, momordica is mentioned on the list.
Invalid Link Removed
Effect of graded doses of Momordica charantia seed extract on rat sperm: scanning electron microscope study.
Girini MM, Ahamed RN, Aladakatti RH.
Department of Post-Graduate Studies & Research in Zoology Karnatak University, Dharwad 580003, India.
Morphological changes in sperm of albino rats observed under scanning electron microscopy illustrate the disturbance in the plasma membrane as well as in the acrosomal membrane on treatment with effect of graded doses of alcohol seed extract from Momordica charantia. Considerable changes in the shape and size of the sperm head were observed, with the middle region of the sperm head being slightly constricted dorsoventrally. Most sperm appeared morphologically abnormal in the mid-region of the tail, with formation of a balloon-like cytoplasmic droplet. The results of this study suggest that such effects may have resulted from a general disturbance in proteins and an alteration in the cauda epididymal milieu, probably due to androgen deficiency consequent to the anti-androgenic property of Momordica charantia seeds.
dark_star
New member
CDB said:
alrite ok, anyways I found this extract, it seems to agree with the extract you put up about "anti-spermogenic" but however says that it has androgenic activities, and suggests possibly that less testostosterone is synthesised hence the "antisteroidogenic" part
Antispermatogenic and androgenic activities of Momordica charantia (Karela) in albino rats.
Naseem MZ, Patil SR, Patil SR, Ravindra, Patil RS.
Department of Zoology, Gulbarga University, India.
Petroleum ether, benzene and alcohol extracts of the seeds of Momordica charantia tested in rats at the dose level of 25 mg/100 g body weight for 35 days showed antispermatogenic activity as the number of spermatocytes, spermatids and spermatozoa was decreased. Increase in cholesterol level and Sudanophilic lipid accumulation indicates inhibition in the steroidogenesis. At the same time the weight of epididymis, prostate gland, seminal vesicle and levator ani was increased which showed its androgenic property. Out of the three extracts, the alcohol extract was more potent in its antispermatogenic, antisteroidogenic and androgenic activities.
PMID: 9687077 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
but then again this extract is contradictary about increase or decrease in cholesterol levels.
Influence of bitter gourd (Momordica charantia) on growth and blood constituents in albino rats.
Platel K, Shurpalekar KS, Srinivasan K.
Department of Food Chemistry, Central Food Technological Research Institute, Mysore, India.
Feeding of bitter gourd (Momordica charantia) at 0.02, 0.1 and 0.5% (dry weight) levels in a semi-synthetic diet for a period of 8 weeks did not have any adverse influence on the food intake, growth and organ weights of normal adult rats. The haematological parameters of these experimental rats were also normal. Serum cholesterol levels of the rats receiving 0.5% bitter gourd were significantly lower than those of the control rats. There was no hypoglycaemic effect of bitter gourd in these normoglycaemic rats.
PMID: 8510714 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]