Joining the dark side.... 1st cycle. Test cyp

jcyepez

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30 yr old male.
5'6 and a half (lol I'm a short guy)
142lbs , 13-16% bf
Just did blood work and everything is perfect, lipids are amazing according to my doc.
Training with weights since 2001. Had few injuries and learned from them and proper form is king. Live and learn.
Cycle:
Test cyp, 250 2x a week
On cycle liquid dex .5mg every day
Diet is clean and have Increased caloric intake, but its surprisingly hard for me to eat more. I figured it was gonna be a walk in the park....wrong!
Weight are mostly compound movements, good ol' bench press day consist of decline, regular and incline and at the end free weights, dumbells.
Next day is legs which I also do cardio by running 1 mile all out then dead lift, squats and leg presses.
Next day, cables or pull in excersises.(upper body)
Next day , off
Next day hiit, cross fit
I usually run 4 miles 3x a week in the AM but will cut to 2x unless I get some recommendations for either keeping or lowering.

Pct I have both clomid and tamox on hand.

Positive or negative, all comments are welcomed.

Also, I am somewhat wondering about the 2x a week shot... To keep hormones from fluctuating, wouldn't it be better to follow shots every accordingly. Instead of mon and Thur, wouldn't it change every week to MON,FRI, TUE, SAT, WED, SUN and so on? Or am I just over analyzing things...?
I'm extremely grateful for anabolicminds and all the information it contains. Thanks guys.
 
heavylifter33

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No need to dose the arimidex right off the bat. Dose as needed, or at least wait 3-4 weeks. As far as your injection timing, yes ideally we keep plasma levels even. The 2x a week doesn't do a great job of that. Personally for long esters i just recommend dosing every 2 days and doing it at the same time each injection. So go Monday, then Thursday, then Sunday then next Wednesday, then Saturday... etc etc etc.
 

jcyepez

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Rhadam, thanks for your input. I will hold off on the dex and evaluate day to day.
Well on a positive note if I do follow the shot schedule you mentioned then tonight is shot night =)
 

cfresh1234

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142 lbs and your going to do a cycle??? You could gain a ton more weight natty......why not do a cycle when you hit a plateau after some hardcore training and dieting. I know your 5'6" but you could easily get up around 170 180 natty....
 

frankybaby

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142 lbs and your going to do a cycle??? You could gain a ton more weight natty......why not do a cycle when you hit a plateau after some hardcore training and dieting. I know your 5'6" but you could easily get up around 170 180 natty....
Hes lifting since 2001, he probably did/tried.
 

cfresh1234

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Hes lifting since 2001, he probably did/tried.

then clearly he isn't doing something right. I am not even trying to be a dick....If anything I am trying to help. If you can't gain weight natty, then what makes you think he is going to be able to maintain his weight after his cycle. He's not....he will end up going right back to where he was. Either he isn't EATING enough or his training is to blame. Taking the lazy way out isn't going to do anything if he doesn't know how to eat or train correctly.
 
jason267

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142 lbs and your going to do a cycle??? You could gain a ton more weight natty......why not do a cycle when you hit a plateau after some hardcore training and dieting. I know your 5'6" but you could easily get up around 170 180 natty....
hes 5'6"...maybe he doesnt want to look like a walking chode...you know, the guys his height but weigh 190-220lbs...ridiculous physique.
 
jason267

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then clearly he isn't doing something right. I am not even trying to be a dick....If anything I am trying to help. If you can't gain weight natty, then what makes you think he is going to be able to maintain his weight after his cycle. He's not....he will end up going right back to where he was. Either he isn't EATING enough or his training is to blame. Taking the lazy way out isn't going to do anything if he doesn't know how to eat or train correctly.
He can easily maintain the muscle he gains from this cycle, if he keeps his cals up and eats a high protein diet. Sounds like he doesnt want to gain a ton of fat. Like most end up gaining after a cycle to try to maintane what they gained form it. Keep protein high after cycle OP, and increase cals at least 750 while on and after. Good to go for a first cycle.
 
StanleyG

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Dont inject E2D, its ridiculous and totally unnecessary. If you want to be anal about it you could do E3D but quite honestly based on active half life, especially with cyp, your Mon/Th injection schedule over time will give you amazingly stable blood levels of test.
Also do not "wait" to manage your e2 with an ai, also ridiculous. You can in no way ever expect to keep e2 within clinically normal range taking that much test. Do yourself and your health a favor, keep e2 within clinical range even though on cycle. This will give you the benefits of e2 without the undesirable sides. Dosing should be .25mg dex EOD to start. Your proposed dosing is too high. Start your ai when you start your cycle or at your second injection, no later. Anyone that tells you to wait has no concept of just how quickly levels of test increase and how quickly aromatization occurs. After 6 weeks on cycle get blood work, adjust ai dose as needed.
Also you should look into running HCG on cycle, 250iu's, 2x/week. This will maintain leydig cell function in spite of HPTA being shut down. It will allow for a smoother, faster recovery and help with gains retention in addition to the HPTA function restoration. Stop HCG 3 days pre PCT.
Best of luck.
 
mixedup

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He can easily maintain the muscle he gains from this cycle, if he keeps his cals up and eats a high protein diet. Sounds like he doesnt want to gain a ton of fat. Like most end up gaining after a cycle to try to maintane what they gained form it. Keep protein high after cycle OP, and increase cals at least 750 while on and after. Good to go for a first cycle.
He's 143lbs at 13 to 16% bf at 5ft 6in. Honestly that's just not in shape and most people underestimate their bf. You say he could easily keep the gains with his stats his diet is obviously off why go on cycle when he could just add 750 cals and more protein now naturally?? He already said it's incredibly hard for him to eat so if he's not eating thar much and his bf is still om that percentage than his diet is really off
 
mixedup

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hes 5'6"...maybe he doesnt want to look like a walking chode...you know, the guys his height but weigh 190-220lbs...ridiculous physique.
Umm 5ft 6in 220 is olympia placing status that's what flex walk around at
 
jason267

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Umm 5ft 6in 220 is olympia placing status that's what flex walk around at
All im saying is, at his height, if he jumps up to 165lbs, with low bodyfat...that would be a decent first run. And one that he can keep most of those gains.

As far as my comment about being 5'6" and weighing 200lbs...i just think that is a horrible look, and unhealthy, as well as creating basic problems...like trying to tie your shoes for example!!!

He weighs 145 right now, so a gain of 25lbs would be amazing. But since his diet is in question, i would guess a gain of 15lbs would be more likely.
Still, if he wants to run it, thats his choice.
 
mixedup

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All im saying is, at his height, if he jumps up to 165lbs, with low bodyfat...that would be a decent first run. And one that he can keep most of those gains.

As far as my comment about being 5'6" and weighing 200lbs...i just think that is a horrible look, and unhealthy, as well as creating basic problems...like trying to tie your shoes for example!!!

He weighs 145 right now, so a gain of 25lbs would be amazing. But since his diet is in question, i would guess a gain of 15lbs would be more likely.
Still, if he wants to run it, thats his choice.
I'm not saying he shouldn't cycle but imo he needs to get some other things in order to get the most out of a cycle... cycling carries alot of risks and cost money as he is new I'd like to be able to give him advice not just on the cycle but other aspects to maximize his potential results
 
jason267

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I'm not saying he shouldn't cycle but imo he needs to get some other things in order to get the most out of a cycle... cycling carries alot of risks and cost money as he is new I'd like to be able to give him advice not just on the cycle but other aspects to maximize his potential results
for sure...but if he is telling the truth about lifting since 2001, he probably has things in decent order.
Some people just have those genes that limit them to under 150lbs....I was one of those about 10yrs ago! haha.
But with a more intense lifting schedule, better diet, and then the addition of some PH's down the line...things have fallen into place nicely.
He can do that too.
 
mixedup

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for sure...but if he is telling the truth about lifting since 2001, he probably has things in decent order.
Some people just have those genes that limit them to under 150lbs....I was one of those about 10yrs ago! haha.
But with a more intense lifting schedule, better diet, and then the addition of some PH's down the line...things have fallen into place nicely.
He can do that too.
Yeah he could be a hard gainer no doubt lots of them but my biggest clue is the bf% 13 to 16% is pretty high
 
jason267

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^ah, very true. I missed that.
But at the same time, if his diet is on point or at least pretty decent while on cycle, wouldnt he lean out a bit on Test E?
 
mixedup

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^ah, very true. I missed that.
But at the same time, if his diet is on point or at least pretty decent while on cycle, wouldnt he lean out a bit on Test E?
no test e will have no bearing on leaning out directly if he pits on more lbm he will burn fat easier but that will be totally dependant on diet again. Only one or 2 steroids will actually help with burning fat trenbolone ace or eth being one of them.

If he is set on cycling I think the best thing would be for him to have a nutritionist that works with bodybuilders set up a meal plan for him that combined with cycle would produce far superior results I stay sub teen bf approx 8 months out of the year dipping into single digits part of that time I still
Do and always will use one. There is a big reason every top level bb and physique pro has a diet coach
 
jason267

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^just PM'd you btw, mixedup.
For his size, i wonder if eating 2x his weight in protein would help his goals? Around 300g? Low carb, etc. Or would he need to just eat everything in site while on that cycle???
IF, he wants to gain lean muscle and bring his bf% down a couple notches...
Not really sure what he has planned...\
OP, we need more INFO!!!
 
napalm

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As far as my comment about being 5'6" and weighing 200lbs...i just think that is a horrible look, and unhealthy, as well as creating basic problems...like trying to tie your shoes for example!!!.
That's the stupidest thing I've read on this forum in the 5 yrs I've been here.

Congrats...
 
Smont

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Jason your missing alot of important points. Im 205 @15% bf for me to be ripped i gotta be 180. Thats 25lbs of fat i gotta loose if op is that small with that much bf he cant be carrying much muscle. My diet was terrible this winter and i was hurt alot, ive also been training sense 2001. It took the complete opposite of hard training and good diet for me to get this outta shape. Mixed up makes many good points. Hes not eating right or enough hes not gonna keep gains. Eat2x your weight in protein isint gonna help anything. Op this just constructive criticism, you gotta get some other things in order before you cycle if you wanna mske the most of it and keep it. Otherwise your gonna have to be on gear all the time to maintain 160lbs. Run a mild ph for your first run, if you eat right u can gain 10 lbs. Now if 2 months goes by post pct and you keep the wait go for the test. I just dont think you wanna put yourself through what a real cycle involves and waste money if your not gonna hold the gains. When it comes to packing on size diet is king.
 

cfresh1234

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hes 5'6"...maybe he doesnt want to look like a walking chode...you know, the guys his height but weigh 190-220lbs...ridiculous physique.

dude hes a long way from 200 lbs and hes only 142 lbs at 13-16% body fat.....if he cut down to a leaner physique he is going to weigh probably some where from 125 to 130's which in my opinion is pretty damn small. My MAIN point was that he clearly can make a **** load more gains natural by eating and training right. At 5'6" , 142 lbs is not big at all and clearly does not have either training or eating down. WTF is the point of a cycle if you don't know how to diet or train correctly....you will get subpar results and most likely lose the gains in the long run. I'd say learn how to put on 15-lbs of lean mass before messing with ANY kind of cycle. Sorry this is just laziness.... he wants results without the full commitment
 

cfresh1234

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Jason your missing alot of important points. Im 205 @15% bf for me to be ripped i gotta be 180. Thats 25lbs of fat i gotta loose if op is that small with that much bf he cant be carrying much muscle. My diet was terrible this winter and i was hurt alot, ive also been training sense 2001. It took the complete opposite of hard training and good diet for me to get this outta shape. Mixed up makes many good points. Hes not eating right or enough hes not gonna keep gains. Eat2x your weight in protein isint gonna help anything. Op this just constructive criticism, you gotta get some other things in order before you cycle if you wanna mske the most of it and keep it. Otherwise your gonna have to be on gear all the time to maintain 160lbs. Run a mild ph for your first run, if you eat right u can gain 10 lbs. Now if 2 months goes by post pct and you keep the wait go for the test. I just dont think you wanna put yourself through what a real cycle involves and waste money if your not gonna hold the gains. When it comes to packing on size diet is king.

^^^^ this right here....people need to stop being so ****ing lazy.....
 
goodvibes

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Jason man 142 @ 5'6 is tiny. Even at 165 that's decent for a natty. Like everyone is saying OP needs to fix his lifestyle first before cycling cause he cnt keep those gains anyway if he's eating wrong and training wrong.
 
gagandugan

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Look, take it from someone who is also 5'6" 1/2: I started as a small-framed "skinny fat" 130lbs guy, around 15% body fat, with no real muscle mass, no definition and a spare tire around my waist. I changed my diet, which was pretty horrible, and started lifting weights using a proven full body program based on big, compound exercises. My supplements? Protein powder, creatine, fish oil, multivitamin. At the end of my long, steady bulk, I enjoyed crazy "noob gains" and went from 130lbs, 15%, to 160lbs, 13% BF. Only then I decided to cut back and uncover some muscle. I used a low dose (15mg) of Ostarine to help preserve muscle and, most importantly, heal chronic pain in my left wrist. After a cut, I went to 150lbs @ 11% (with good definition and visible abs for the first time in my life. My wife could not believe this transformation. And the wrist feels amazing too! :). Now, this BF was always measured with calipers, so it might be off, but the results were obvious, regardless of the actual percentage.

Finally, I went on a slow, lean bulk and am currently around 163lbs, using my staple supplements plus Ep1c Unleashed, and, while I did lose *some* lower ab definition, I look rock solid at this body weight.

My point? It's possible to gain 33 lbs like this, naturally, while having a very small frame using no anabolics at all. Full body workouts 3X a week are important, but I'd say that 75% of it is diet man, honestly. Only now am I contemplating using some legal, mild prohormones, such as 1-Andro and Epiandro to get some more lean mass while staying lean (recomp). And I am 41, 11 years older than OP, so I started really, really late. Maybe I'll just explore some additional natural options first, such as X-Gels and ABE before I take PHs.

Don't get me wrong -- I have absolutely nothing against people using whatever they wanna use to achieve their goal physique. I'm just saying it's unnecessary to start pinning before you explore some natural options, some of which are actually pretty healthy and good for you. And food. Gotta increase those calories, no ifs or buts. (Most people here will laugh at this, but I bulk @ 2600-2700 calories a day :rofl:).

Just my $.02.
 
mixedup

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^just PM'd you btw, mixedup.
For his size, i wonder if eating 2x his weight in protein would help his goals? Around 300g? Low carb, etc. Or would he need to just eat everything in site while on that cycle???
IF, he wants to gain lean muscle and bring his bf% down a couple notches...
Not really sure what he has planned...\
OP, we need more INFO!!!
Can't tell anything till we know his diet. All we know is he has a hard time eating. So macros for his body and metabolism are way way out of whack. If he isn't eating that much and he's still got that bf% adding. In dbl protein might help but not unless he changed fat or carb sources.

I mean honestly I never want to get down on a new guy bit he Is almost 1/2ft taller than me at 142lbs I got over 20lbs on him right now with visible abs. Yes I use anabolics but even without them I could easily easily maintain 155lbs with a six pack. That is almost 15lbs more than him with much lower body fat and being much shorter. I did that for over a year less.than 2yrs ago when my wife and I were having a new baby and I had to be off all anabolics. During approx 6 months of that time I couldn't work out at all due to A fully ruptured pec that was healing. I maintained That Weight AND Bf on diet alone.. if I could do that not working out and zero supplements surely op.could make very good gains with a good dIet some natural supps and a good workout program. Like I've always said you wanna hop on juice if your an adult and want to go for it it's your choice. But without alot of other things in play your gonna end up.disappointed
 
goodvibes

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Look, take it from someone who is also 5'6" 1/2: I started as a small-framed "skinny fat" 130lbs guy, around 15% body fat, with no real muscle mass, no definition and a spare tire around my waist. I changed my diet, which was pretty horrible, and started lifting weights using a proven full body program based on big, compound exercises. My supplements? Protein powder, creatine, fish oil, multivitamin. At the end of my long, steady bulk, I enjoyed crazy "noob gains" and went from 130lbs, 15%, to 160lbs, 13% BF. Only then I decided to cut back and uncover some muscle. I used a low dose (15mg) of Ostarine to help preserve muscle and, most importantly, heal chronic pain in my left wrist. After a cut, I went to 150lbs @ 11% (with good definition and visible abs for the first time in my life. My wife could not believe this transformation. And the wrist feels amazing too! :). Now, this BF was always measured with calipers, so it might be off, but the results were obvious, regardless of the actual percentage.

Finally, I went on a slow, lean bulk and am currently around 163lbs, using my staple supplements plus Ep1c Unleashed, and, while I did lose *some* lower ab definition, I look rock solid at this body weight.

My point? It's possible to gain 33 lbs like this, naturally, while having a very small frame using no anabolics at all. Full body workouts 3X a week are important, but I'd say that 75% of it is diet man, honestly. Only now am I contemplating using some legal, mild prohormones, such as 1-Andro and Epiandro to get some more lean mass while staying lean (recomp). And I am 41, 11 years older than OP, so I started really, really late. Maybe I'll just explore some additional natural options first, such as X-Gels and ABE before I take PHs.

Don't get me wrong -- I have absolutely nothing against people using whatever they wanna use to achieve their goal physique. I'm just saying it's unnecessary to start pinning before you explore some natural options, some of which are actually pretty healthy and good for you. And food. Gotta increase those calories, no ifs or buts. (Most people here will laugh at this, but I bulk @ 2600-2700 calories a day :rofl:).

Just my $.02.
Nice transformation! Hopefully OP understands the importance of diet first and to stop taking shortcuts that most likely not even lead to reaching his goal.

2.6-2.7k a day sounds about right for that frame. Personally I'm happy at eating 3-3.5k a day. That's when I'm most comfortable and not restricted.
 

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I think he's going to do it regardless guys, and at least he's got a serm and a.I.. Or consulting before hand

Pin monday and thursday every week for 12-14wks (500mg a week of test it good)
Dose a.I as need (I did it eod)
Start pct/serm 2weeks after last injection and run for 4weeks

Eat clean high protein every 3 hrs of the day and lift lift and lift then sleep sleep. Repeat.
Results gauranteed.

Im 5' 6.5" to be exact lol and know what you mean, I did reach 178 natty after 3years of training when I first started from 148lbs but my body fat was high. Now im 171lbs leaner but stonger than I ever been, and of course with the help of aas. You will run into bumps in road taking aas but educating and getting advise is big help. I learned the hard way, always have products on hand that can help with the sides just incase.


Goodluck!

Goodluck bud
 
heavylifter33

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Dont inject E2D, its ridiculous and totally unnecessary. If you want to be anal about it you could do E3D but quite honestly based on active half life, especially with cyp, your Mon/Th injection schedule over time will give you amazingly stable blood levels of test.
Also do not "wait" to manage your e2 with an ai, also ridiculous. You can in no way ever expect to keep e2 within clinically normal range taking that much test. Do yourself and your health a favor, keep e2 within clinical range even though on cycle. This will give you the benefits of e2 without the undesirable sides. Dosing should be .25mg dex EOD to start. Your proposed dosing is too high. Start your ai when you start your cycle or at your second injection, no later. Anyone that tells you to wait has no concept of just how quickly levels of test increase and how quickly aromatization occurs. After 6 weeks on cycle get blood work, adjust ai dose as needed.
Also you should look into running HCG on cycle, 250iu's, 2x/week. This will maintain leydig cell function in spite of HPTA being shut down. It will allow for a smoother, faster recovery and help with gains retention in addition to the HPTA function restoration. Stop HCG 3 days pre PCT.
Best of luck.
LOL. Yup, i have no clue what i'm talking about. Nope. None at all.

Bro, you are fuking clueless.
 
StanleyG

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LOL. Yup, i have no clue what i'm talking about. Nope. None at all.

Bro, you are fuking clueless.
What you told him to do is ridiculous. You mean people here actually listen to that type of advice? Scary.
Whatever....
 
heavylifter33

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What you told him to do is ridiculous. You mean people here actually listen to that type of advice? Scary.
Whatever....
Science-backed advice from someone who has studied the metabolism, endocrine system, biochem, and has read from experts in the field? Sorry i don't just go off what broscientist old school lifters have been touting. Whatever indeed.
 
StanleyG

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Science-backed advice from someone who has studied the metabolism, endocrine system, biochem, and has read from experts in the field? Sorry i don't just go off what broscientist old school lifters have been touting. Whatever indeed.
Wow all that and still giving out ****ty advice in this case. I am not impressed, especially considering a couple things you told him to do are not prudent- not just one. Save it, you have no idea of my background, level of knowledge as well as personal experience. If you are all you just claimed to be or possess all you just claimed to possess why then are you giving out that horrible advice I ask?
On one hand you tout the benefits of stable plasma levels of hormones yet on the other you tell him not to start his ai for 3-4 weeks if it is even needed? If you had studied all you have claimed too you should realize how contradictory and imprudent that advice is. Save it. I assure you I can surpass you with the scientific aspects of the game and I far surpass you when it comes to years of experience and practical application. My post was nothing personal, it just so happened that you are the one that started the thread off with that crappy advice, in all fairness to the OP that needed to be corrected as quickly as possible.
 
Blergs

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Wow all that and still giving out ****ty advice in this case. I am not impressed, especially considering a couple things you told him to do are not prudent- not just one. Save it, you have no idea of my background, level of knowledge as well as personal experience. If you are all you just claimed to be or possess all you just claimed to possess why then are you giving out that horrible advice I ask?
On one hand you tout the benefits of stable plasma levels of hormones yet on the other you tell him not to start his ai for 3-4 weeks if it is even needed? If you had studied all you have claimed too you should realize how contradictory and imprudent that advice is. Save it. I assure you I can surpass you with the scientific aspects of the game and I far surpass you when it comes to years of experience and practical application. My post was nothing personal, it just so happened that you are the one that started the thread off with that crappy advice, in all fairness to the OP that needed to be corrected as quickly as possible.
I totally agree with you here....
Like how can someone claim to know soo much but be so heard headed to be shown they are wrong? like that type of thinking would lead to close minded out look and probably why he doesnt know what he is talking about TBH...
 

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OK then...
Well all comments were taken and appreciated. Regardless if they were positive, negative or in house fighting. Im happy to know that I can count with individuals who are passionate and driven. Period.
To answer a few questions. Diet is clean, example of a days eating habits,
Wake up 5amish,
Drink 1 cup of water, get my coffee beans and grinds them and make my cup of joe(no sugar)
Pre work out drink(Homemade) 5gr BCAA, 5gr glutamine, 5gr AAKG, 5gr citrulline, 4 gr Beta AL, 4 D aspartic.
5:30-45am warm up and hit the weights which like i said depends on which body part from original post. 7am done,
PWD consist of same ingridients but add a scoop of protein shake to higher up amino acids intake and BCAA along with 5gr of creatine
Breakfast is always 4 eggs, three whole one white with broccoli which i hate cooked with olive oil or avocado oil, 1 full cup of old fashioned oatmeal along with
wheaties and milk.
lunch is most of the time black beans with white rice and meat(chicken, salmon, steak, or ground beef. or sandwich with double ham cheese andveggies.
snack is protein shake along with 5grm creatine and a Costco bread which Im in love with (named energy bagel or something like that) with almond butter to increase caloric value of snack,
for my 3rd meal i am eating whatever the wife cooked which sometimes i will avoid if it doesnt have the correct values i require. Prior to bed i have a similar snack from earlier but add milk. I have reached 155 natty and it was hard to maintain as i was eating every freaking 2-4 hours and worked a night time shift. I do know that i have to cut down on my cardio as a few buddies who have been doing this for some years said its a life style that i must love and choose. I love cardio. I look forward to my HIIT days.
I am aware that diet is the foundation and my training isthe structure which i must maintain and maintenance, but without a solid foundation all falls down.
Sorry guys, Im at work need to cut it short.
More specific questions?
should i post pics?
Thanks for everyone input.
I
 

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