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John kiefer "carb backloading"

The Engineer said:
Well when I was doing CKD, I'd supplement with Na-R-ALA post CKD refeed/pre workout and felt great. But I'm going to rule out the GDA all together, both from the backload and the pre workout. A little off topic, does HCA (garcinia cambogia) make anyone bloated? And is there any merit to using ingredients such as garcinia cambogia or gymnema sylvestre pre backload? I know HCA inhibits pancreatic alpha-amylase, thus acting somewhat as a carb-blocker reducing the amount of carbs absorbed; while gymnema sylvestre can be used to stimulate insulin secretion. But this information was based on a study on type-2 diabetics, so logically it should work even better in non-type-2s? So out of the two, we'd want more insulin secretion to get the most out of our backload?
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Backloading with a GDA works incredibly well

Especially when using simple sugars.
 
I am gonna use Carb Nite Solution until I am lean enough to do CBL. Kiefer said that under 15% bodyfat CBL and over 15% do CNS.

Anyone do CBL with bodyfat 20%+?
 
todd muelheim said:
Why? Not disagreeing, but curious.
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Because even though you are not getting a huge endogenous response you are still upregulating pathways for increased fat oxidation, quicker drop In blood glucose.

Also, GDAs that work primarily through alpha amylase won't block simple sugars ie: glucose dextrose

Cliffs;
Less insulin release
Unregulated fat oxidation (PPARa)
Repressed adipo/lipogenic respond (PPARy)
Quicker normalization of BG
 
EBF Inc said:
Because even though you are not getting a huge endogenous response you are still upregulating pathways for increased fat oxidation, quicker drop In blood glucose.

Also, GDAs that work primarily through alpha amylase won't block simple sugars ie: glucose dextrose

Cliffs;
Less insulin release
Unregulated fat oxidation (PPARa)
Repressed adipo/lipogenic respond (PPARy)
Quicker normalization of BG
Click to expand...

You pointed some good things, but unfortunately, some people may spike their insulin levels by just smelling something sweet. Also, when you backload huge amount of carbs - simple sugars(200-400)gr in a sitting, they will stay long enough to your stomach. Result? Your insulin will be elevated long enough, just like when you eat grains. Everything that Kiefer states is totally bull****.

Ps anyone should read Alex Viada's response to Cbl.
 
teras said:
You pointed some good things, but unfortunately, some people may spike their insulin levels by just smelling something sweet. Also, when you backload huge amount of carbs - simple sugars(200-400)gr in a sitting, they will stay long enough to your stomach. Result? Your insulin will be elevated long enough, just like when you eat grains. Everything that Kiefer states is totally bull****. Ps anyone should read Alex Viada's response to Cbl.
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Your not understanding concept

Yes smell can slightly raise insulin levels. Some studies show that.

But we are talking about blood glucose level not food sitting in your stomach. Two different things.

Your insulin won't be as high with a GDA as without as most cut insulin peaks. Or, mimic it's action thus less release OR quicker normalization of glucose levels

There's good and bad points about CBL. But remember this **** isn't black and white one theory will have 10 different faults people point out and with those faults there are 50 rebuttals

I results wise and FEELING wise figure out your own macro count and play with macro timing. Doesn't have to be specifically a backload. But the science behind why it would work would be similar to the science why a refeed works.

I myself do back loading, IF, and warrior diet hybrid.

Works for me.
 
teras said:
Everything that Kiefer states is totally bull****. Ps anyone should read Alex Viada's response to Cbl.
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I don't know about 'everything' but he's wrong about plenty in my opinion. I followed CBL for a few months about a year ago and just put on fat. I actually actually think it's quite a complicated protocol if you read his book and follow it precisely. I'm all for back loading carbs, and I've had good results doing just that, but following CBL to the letter DID NOT work for me, quite the opposite. Kiefer comes across very scholarly, but he seems to cherry pick studies to back up many of his claims.
 
Johnston said:
I tend to agree. I followed CBL for a few months about a year ago and just put on fat. I actually actually think it's quite a complicated protocol if you read his book and follow it precisely. I'm all for back loading carbs, and I've had good results doing just that, but following CBL to the letter DID NOT work for me, quite the opposite. Kiefer comes across very scholarly, but he seems to cherry pick studies to back up many of his claims.
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I looked my best after my contest doing carb backloading and what ****ed up my physique was adding intra carbs, I can't do that without putting on additional fluff. But it wasn't noticeable to anyone but me so I guess you can say intra carbs were fine for me. But my best results were as follows

Train fasted w bcaa

Post workout 40-60 carbs 15g amino

Meal 1 60-70g fat, 160 protein

Aminos

Meal 2 10-15g fat, 130 protein, 300 carbs
 
I'm following a VERY similar protocol and seeing good results with that. Couldn't imagine not working out fasted now.
 
EBF Inc said:
I looked my best after my contest doing carb backloading and what ****ed up my physique was adding intra carbs, I can't do that without putting on additional fluff. But it wasn't noticeable to anyone but me so I guess you can say intra carbs were fine for me. But my best results were as follows

Train fasted w bcaa

Post workout 40-60 carbs 15g amino

Meal 1 60-70g fat, 160 protein

Aminos

Meal 2 10-15g fat, 130 protein, 300 carbs
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I like your protocol a lot! I had great results following it. I also advocate it, cause you don't have CHO+F together. Your last meal has very limited fats, so i guess you don't eat the crap that CBL recommend's. Btw, what are your main sources of carbs? Potatoes,white rice,etc?
 
EBF Inc said:
I looked my best after my contest doing carb backloading and what ****ed up my physique was adding intra carbs, I can't do that without putting on additional fluff. But it wasn't noticeable to anyone but me so I guess you can say intra carbs were fine for me. But my best results were as follows

Train fasted w bcaa

Post workout 40-60 carbs 15g amino

Meal 1 60-70g fat, 160 protein

Aminos

Meal 2 10-15g fat, 130 protein, 300 carbs
Click to expand...

A diet for an already lean person, or would it work for a person with over 20% bodyfat?

I enjoy training fasted, feel I have more energy early in the morning. Many "experts" advocate training between 3-6pm because of the body's biorythm, BS?
 
EBF Inc said:
Because even though you are not getting a huge endogenous response you are still upregulating pathways for increased fat oxidation, quicker drop In blood glucose.

Also, GDAs that work primarily through alpha amylase won't block simple sugars ie: glucose dextrose

Cliffs;
Less insulin release
Unregulated fat oxidation (PPARa)
Repressed adipo/lipogenic respond (PPARy)
Quicker normalization of BG
Click to expand...

So...I can continue to use the (nearly) full bottles of chromium poly, fenugreek, and glycine that are in my pantry?
 
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