"Jeff Gannon," The Right's answer to the liberal media

Deoudes59 said:
Info - off topic, but: if you could have nominated someone to run for President on the Democratic ticket, who would that person be?

and, do you want Hilary Clinton to get the nod in 2008?
According to a Frontline documentary on Gore, when Hillary Clinton was doing her healthcare thing at the beginning of her husband's administration, she demanded Gore's office space- his literal West Wing office because she felt like she needed it more than he did. The only trouble was that he was elected into that office.

Nope, She has no boundaries; she'd be another Nixon. We will see who emerges on the Democratic ticket. Further , There are those on the Rebublican side that I might consider, just a lot less these days than there used to be. At one time, I would have voted for McCain or for Powell. They both lost my support with their behaviors.

A lot can change in 4 years. I have no strong preference.
 
INFOHAZARD said:
You won't find it because you can't. I can always back up what I say. You? You're lazy, lazy, lazy. Gannon had public websites that grossly debauched the symbols of the United States Marine Corps. Check out the site itself. Jarhead, do you hear me? You'd better check it out if you want to know the truth. It's disgusting. Any president that would allow such a thing into the White House to further his own ends has no respect for the men and women in uniform. He hates them. He uses everyone. You look at Gannon's site and tell me how the White House could stoop to such a thing. That the whole issue sat in their blind-spot so they couldn't see this coming tells you about their unconcious.


As proud as I am to be a Marine, being one does not make a person exempt from being a scumbag. I already didn't like the guy because he was a reporter. If he did all the other things you say, it changes nothing for me. The government is screwed up, top to bottom IMO. But no way in hell do I think that the President hates servicemen. It's a ridiculous thing to say. I honestly mean no offense by saying this, but dude, you really sound crazy. It makes it hard to think about any points you make that I might agree with. There's just too much jibberish too sort thru...
 
You won't find it because you can't. I can always back up what I say. You? You're lazy, lazy, lazy. You're weak.
You never back up a damn thing you say. No I won't find it because I know it's true. I am also not going to waste my time finding it for someone like you who won't believe it any way. When I prove you wrong again, your going to ignore it and post something entirely unrelated. Also, it's kind of funny how little you know......... I wouldn't want to educate you. February 14, 1999: "Most of us have no problem with taking a small amount of the Social Security proceeds and putting it in the private sector." Harry Reid
"The former President devoted budget surpluses to reducing federal debt, thereby increasing Social Security solvency. He also proposed investing government funds in the stock market in hopes of boosting Social Security surpluses, an idea Democrats endorsed." on Bill Clinton
Keep getting your news from the Daily Show Info........................ you are wrong once again.

I'm glad that you realize Gannon is a prostitute. Now you gotta ask yourself, who did he blow or blackmail to get his job? And what are the National Security Implications? And could it possibly be a coincidence that the biggest gay-bashing administration ever has a gay whore among it's minions? It's an unconcious defense called projection. The place could be riddled with gays. Check out this exchange from the Canadian press: Invalid Link Removed
As everyone has said many times. You are making this more of a big deal than it is. It makes the white house look bad that he passed the security check but that's about it. He asked a valid question that the liberal press won't.
I realize that to you, cheating at cards by stacking the deck is just clean fun, but putting a ringer (gay whore) into the White House Press Corps limits freedom of the press and thus is simply in violation of the First Amendment. I don't know, it also seems to violate the sacred Bush principle of family values and his religious intolerance of gays. But remember, Bush does not actually attend church regulaly unless it's a photo-op. He doen't seem to feel the need.
You need to start taking your medication again. I don't suppose you care to elaborate on how a gay escort asking one question is a violation of the first amendment? Also, don't you think that people have the right to be "intolerant"? I also take it from your liberal phrasing by calling Bush "biggest gay-bashing administration ever" and "religious intolerance of gays" is referring to because he is against gay marriage? You know that anti gay marriage propositions passed overwhelming in every state they were in? See there is an example of liberalism at it's best. Any one who doesn't support gay marriage is a intolerant gay basher.
 
jarhead said:
INFOHAZARD said:
You won't find it because you can't. I can always back up what I say. You? You're lazy, lazy, lazy. Gannon had public websites that grossly debauched the symbols of the United States Marine Corps. Check out the site itself. Jarhead, do you hear me? You'd better check it out if you want to know the truth. It's disgusting. Any president that would allow such a thing into the White House to further his own ends has no respect for the men and women in uniform. He hates them. He uses everyone. You look at Gannon's site and tell me how the White House could stoop to such a thing. That the whole issue sat in their blind-spot so they couldn't see this coming tells you about their unconcious.


As proud as I am to be a Marine, being one does not make a person exempt from being a scumbag. I already didn't like the guy because he was a reporter. If he did all the other things you say, it changes nothing for me. The government is screwed up, top to bottom IMO. But no way in hell do I think that the President hates servicemen. It's a ridiculous thing to say. I honestly mean no offense by saying this, but dude, you really sound crazy. It makes it hard to think about any points you make that I might agree with. There's just too much jibberish too sort thru...
You never even checked out the site of this White House insider, did you?

Also, If I'm crazy, I'm in good company. Virtually every right wing editorial out there specifically challenges the sanity of anyone Left of Attila the Hun.

Hey, did I ever tell you what I do for a living? I'm a USAF trained psychiatrist. I'm a diplomate of the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology. These days I make a living trying to ease the nightmares of veterans who relive any number of wars every night. You will notice that I've been pretty careful not to question the sanity of others around here. And of course, nothing I've said has ever been medical advice, just free speech.

But I do know something about human nature. I predict that the Gannon scandal is only the latest blindside in a long saga of being blindsided as an administration and as a nation. It will not end well.

That being said, I'll quit stirring up the hornet's nest for now.

INFOHAZARD
 
But I do know something about human nature. I predict that the Gannon scandal is only the latest blindside in a long saga of being blindsided as an administration and as a nation. It will not end well.
Does that mean your not going to answer my questions?
 
Hey, did I ever tell you what I do for a living? I'm a USAF trained psychiatrist. I'm a diplomate of the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology. These days I make a living trying to ease the nightmares of veterans who relive any number of wars every night.
Damn you sound like you have a stressful job.
 
Many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were populists but also Libertarians. The Libertarian approach to governing the United States did not work. However now we're getting to the point where the government is too large and too oppressive. The founding fathers would be having a **** fit knowing that the nation that was meant to be free today is anything but. The Libertarians will never grow large because it consists mainly of polygamists, those who want all drugs legalized (regardless if they harm others who don't use them), government conspiracy nut jobs (the ones that wear tinfoil on their heads to avoid having their thoughts analyzed by the CIA), and of course, the party is so poorly organized that its tough to unify.

George W. Bush is not a conservative. He's for insane amounts of spending; that's not conservative. He's for putting more power in the federal government and not the State. Again, thats not conservative. He also has absolutely no diplomacy abilities; which is why almost everyone in the world hates him. He is disappointing to me. He's left a big red mark on American History that we'll probably never recover from. Even if 9/11 were not to happen, its unlikely he'd balance the budget. Bush talks about making sure children have a strong future yet he borrows money in the trillions while slashing taxes. I don't know if he realizes it but the national debt (soon to enter at least $10 trillion+) is a concern for children and for everyone. So why is he neglecting the national debt? Eventually, the countries we borrow from want to get paid back and thats where we get screwed.

Gannon is conservative and ruffling the feathers of Liberals. What else is new? Liberals had a stranglehold on the media until Fox News arrived in 1996 and a little before that with conservative talk radio. Then the liberals have this deer in the headlights syndrome. They just somehow can't comprehend that there's another political force from the other side. Its alien to them. So they're only defense is to call conservatives names and call anything that doesn't agree with them "extreme right wing." I've heard Fox News been referred to as that. I know its biased towards the right but slightly. However this is just too unknown for liberals. Whats funny is that Fox News and conservative outlets are rapidly gaining popularity while liberals are losing strength. MSNBC is a joke. CNN is rapidly losing ratings to the point where Bill O'Reilly by and far dominates the 8pm EST time.

The Democrats are way further left - than the Republicans are right.
Exactly. Democrats are sliding further and further to the left than Republicans are to the right. Democrats may as well rename themselves Socialists because thats what they are. Although not all Democrats are socialist but its like a teeter totter. The Socialist Left side is weighing down the Moderate Left side. You'd think because Clinton was a moderate that they'd go for that angle but it evades them. I guess when you have George Soros (frequently known as the socialist billionaire) giving them money and telling them that he owns them, you probably have no choice but to go further to the left.

As for the comments on Dean, Dean's job is to get money. Thats it. He lost the running for President because nobody liked him. If he keeps talking, he continues to slash the party at its knees, giving the Republicans a monopoly on the elections of 2006 and 2008. He better learn how to keep his trap shut to the public and work hard on the inside. If not, its going to be very hard for Democrats to get a good foothold. Also it reduces the chance that Hillary will get nominated but I'm almost sure of it that she is going to run.

but would rather put all of their efforts into pointing out the failings of the republicans
Thats why Democrats lost so much power in 2004. They have no real message of their own, just that Bush sucks and they hate the GOP. Then they act shocked that they lost. The Democrats don't like privatized Social Security because its a member of the GOP thats spearheading it. Democrats want to be the champion of the people but when the "other party" does something beneficial for people, they throw a **** fit. Its not that they disapprove of it, they're just pissed that they weren't the first one's to bring the issue and seriously plan to reform it. Thats all.

The dems and repubs have essentially swapped rolls in the late 19th century or so
Around 1872 if my memory serves me correctly. The Democrats became liberal to counter Ulysses S. Grant and have taken that route ever since. Although there were a few liberal Republicans from time to time like Rutherford Hayes and Theodore Roosevelt. Neocons started with Ronald Reagan though and Socialist Democrats began with George McGovern but Johnson was pretty liberal himself (such as the failed war on poverty). So the polarization is relatively new.

Buchanan was on the TV yesterday, arguing very eloquently that you can't export democracy from the barrel of a gun. He's massively against this war.
True conservatives are against this war. I'm one of them. I think we should just get the hell out of the Middle East and pull out out of Europe but probably stay in South Korea due to stability reasons. The Bush democracy spreading plan is a big joke because remember, Middle East dicators were selected by voting. They don't want freedom, they want Islam. They like voting but Iraqis voted for a party that is Iran's butt buddy. I give them a few years before another Saddam emerges but teaming up with Iran. Maybe I'm wrong; hopefully I'm wrong.

Ever heard of Richard Mellon Schaife
I knew of him. He probably won't talk to the media because the media is overwhelmingly liberal and would just twist his words around. Its been done before.
 
In one system the government owns every thing and in the other the government tells everyone what to do.
There's really no difference but most Democrats have such a hard on for socialism that they're too blind to notice it. Again, not shocking in the least.

They rarely actually change
Like how Harry Byrd was a former KKK member and Al Gore Sr. was a notorious racist? You're right on that part. Democrats just hate White Christians now instead of blacks and Jews.

I think it is best put as democrats are socialist and republicans are socialist-lite
Thats the best way to describe them. That and that they pander to interest groups. Democrats pander to crackpot left wing orgs and Republicans pander to big business and religious crackpots. Its a shame that political parties have regressed to this point. A third party should really start stepping up. I don't think people are too happy about government overspending or socialism. Kind of like what happened with Ross Perot in 1992. Maybe someone will emerge in 2012 or 2016 because the current two dominant parties are sickeningly bad (but moreso on the Democrat side)

Washington and the founders would all be considered right wing extremists today.
Yeah but to be honest, anyone who isn't a poster child for Karl Marx is considered right wing extremists.

Every founding document has several references to God
Yeah but sociological reports show that only 17% of people were religious in that time. America at the beginning was not as religious as many think. Plus I recall Washington towards the end of his life becoming atheist. I'll have to dig up some quotes on that but I'm almost positive that its true.

That's odd, It's my opinion that most of them would be considered left-libertarian extremists today
I believe that as well. Again, there were many Populists and Libertarians who started this nation. The south was conservative however and hated the fact that slavery would have been abolished so the North had to compromise by calling them 3/5 people.

And everybody else in congress
There were 3 Represenatives that voted against it.
 
Gannon is conservative and ruffling the feathers of Liberals. What else is new? Liberals had a stranglehold on the media until Fox News arrived in 1996 and a little before that with conservative talk radio. Then the liberals have this deer in the headlights syndrome. They just somehow can't comprehend that there's another political force from the other side. Its alien to them. So they're only defense is to call conservatives names and call anything that doesn't agree with them "extreme right wing." I've heard Fox News been referred to as that. I know its biased towards the right but slightly. However this is just too unknown for liberals. Whats funny is that Fox News and conservative outlets are rapidly gaining popularity while liberals are losing strength. MSNBC is a joke. CNN is rapidly losing ratings to the point where Bill O'Reilly by and far dominates the 8pm EST time.

No, Jeff Gannon was an alias, James Guckert (however his name was spelled) his real name was a gay prostitute and tax evader, working for a rightwing website with low ratings (compared to MANY news sites) that somehow was given nearly daily press passes to the white house for I believe what was it? two years? tight security right?, and asked seemingly ringer questions to the administration while he wrote anti-kerry articles for talon news (among other things opening with the headline, to paraphase it went something like "Kerry, the first gay president!") , forget this guys poltiics, was he an inside hire (like other adminstration goon reporters?) or what? this is downright creepy to me, I guess alot of people seem to feel its okay for the administration or other rightwing interests (or leftwing for that matter) to use tax dollars or their own riches to hire reporters like has been going on, I dont, and I would be equally offended if a democrat did this, its creepy and its anti-american IMO. Free press? how is a press free when its bought and paid for?
 
Meerschaum said:
....how is a press free when its bought and paid for?
I hope you're not implying that both sides don't have the press on the payroll. Our point is not that it's "okay" it's just that the democrats have had the press in their pocket and pushing their agenda forever!
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
I hope you're not implying that both sides don't have the press on the payroll. Our point is not that it's "okay" it's just that the democrats have had the press in their pocket and pushing their agenda forever!
see and this is the problem, sure alot of reporters are left leaning, I can say a bunch are right leaning as is a segment of the media (Fox news for example), but where people associated with the clinton administration caught doing something like this? carter? LBJ ? .... there is a difference between believing the media is distorted to the left or right, and people linked to an administration having payouts given to various reporters/etc to push their agenda, there is a huge difference. Dems arent the good guys here, Repubs arent the bad guys, but this administration has got serious issues and because of religious beliefs among other things, people seem to shrug it off and get more angry at democrats every time something like this happens. It isnt 'leftwing' to be against this sort of thing despite what some say corruption in government is bad no matter what side of the fence your on.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
I hope you're not implying that both sides don't have the press on the payroll. Our point is not that it's "okay" it's just that the democrats have had the press in their pocket and pushing their agenda forever!
There has always been left-leaning press and there's always been right-leaning press. Times change. I'm sure we can get into a whiz-bang argument over how liberal or conservative the press on the whole is right now, but we can both probably agree that there have been major advances in the Right's ability to disseminate its message through the press in recent years (probably starting with Rush Limbaugh in the early 90's, but I've heard a GOP operative actually say the hard work was done through mass mailings back then).

There are two (or three depending on how you group it) primary reasons for the dominance of the liberal media over the conservative media (and liberal politicians for that matter):

1) In that the Constitutional role of the media is to act as a check and balance of the government, this places it in a classically 'liberal' role- more power to the people and less for the government. This is historically closer to the Democratic position overall. Given that it's in the Constitution, this should not be tampered with by paying off journalists or otherwise stacking the deck with taxpayer money.

2) The perception at the time that the Great Depression was a result of Corporate corruption as aided by Hoover's Republican administration. The Depression was a time of great blossoming of Left-wing journalism (along with all Left-wing causes). And the pendulum swung hard.

2.5) The later perceived confirmation of the perception that the Republicans in particular and the government in general was corrupt based on the Pentagon Papers and the Watergate scandal (The Pentagon Papers documented Mucho corruption from Presidents on both sides). It took the mainstream press (with the sole exception of WaPo's Woodward and Bernstien) a very long time to pick up on these stories. They basically had to have their noses rubbed in it before they really covered it seriously. It was a time of massive underground left-wing press.

This was an era when the population, much like today was massively divided on the question of Vietnam. The division back then was based largely on generational lines, unlike today.

If you really want to actually understand what the issue was regarding Viet Nam, there's a truly important documentary that's basically just an interiew with the man who was considered the architect of the Viet Nam War, Robert MacNamara (who was responsible for developing modern Air Force Logistics in under Gen LeMay, then Chairman of the Ford Motor Co. before becoming Sec Def under Kennedy and Johnson).

The Movie is called "the Fog of War."
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You can learn what the architect of the Viet Nam war actually thinks about it. The web site does not do it justice. You can rent it at Blockbuster.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
I hope you're not implying that both sides don't have the press on the payroll. Our point is not that it's "okay" it's just that the democrats have had the press in their pocket and pushing their agenda forever!
Given that two wrongs don't make a right, press in the pocket's of politicians need to be vigorously stamped out regardless of who's doing it. If you can point out good evidence that there is someone particular on the left printing unattributed bias for taxpayer money, or who has been chosen soley for their political correctness to be in a governmet press pool, let me know. I'll be happy to join you in denouncing both the reporter and the corrupt politician. But don't just spew generalities and call them truths because you heard other people saying the same thing. 2 people or 20 people or 200 people saying it doesn't make it so.

I tried to get you folks to back up your points with specificities, and got a bunch of flack.

If there's something you doubt the veracity of that I say, just point it out, I'll find references.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Damn you sound like you have a stressful job.
Somebody's gotta do it! Actually, I got to thinking about the different things I've done and learned about through the years. I've:

Interviewed Veteran survivors of Omaha Beach, The Bataan Death March, Frozen Chosin, Tet (lots) and My Lai.

I talked to folks wounded by a Scud Missle attack, someone who had been shot in the head by terrorists 2 weeks earlier, Newly released terrorist/insurgent hostages, fighter pilots who had just accidentally shot down US Army helicopters, Folks who susrived a commercial bus plunge off a cliff, and people aerovac'd to the US because they "accidentally" swallowed their plastic MRE spork.

The job is pretty interesting.
 
Did you have one or more specific questions?
yup
I don't suppose you care to elaborate on how a gay escort asking one question is a violation of the first amendment? Also, don't you think that people have the right to be "intolerant"? I also take it from your liberal phrasing by calling Bush "biggest gay-bashing administration ever" and "religious intolerance of gays" is referring to because he is against gay marriage? You know that anti gay marriage propositions passed overwhelming in every state they were in? See there is an example of liberalism at it's best. Any one who doesn't support gay marriage is a intolerant gay basher.
 
see and this is the problem, sure alot of reporters are left leaning, I can say a bunch are right leaning as is a segment of the media (Fox news for example), but where people associated with the clinton administration caught doing something like this? carter? LBJ ? .... there is a difference between believing the media is distorted to the left or right, and people linked to an administration having payouts given to various reporters/etc to push their agenda, there is a huge difference. Dems arent the good guys here, Repubs arent the bad guys, but this administration has got serious issues and because of religious beliefs among other things, people seem to shrug it off and get more angry at democrats every time something like this happens. It isnt 'leftwing' to be against this sort of thing despite what some say corruption in government is bad no matter what side of the fence your on.
I agree with you that the Armstrong Williams situation is a troubling one. However, it is important to differentiate that from the Jeff Gannon situation. While the left is screaming conspiracy over this, I think a more plausible explanation is that he had a boyfriend or a client that holds a high level job in the bush administration or FBI.
As I said a few times already on here the democrats are being total hypocrites on the issue of social security and are not being called on it by the press. Does FOX news have a conservative slant? You bet. The problem is that they are the only one.... ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MS NBC (with the exception of scarboro country) all have a far left slant. On top of that most of the Broadcast journalist use the NY Times as their template for what they cover. The NY York Times has gone from America's paper of record to Americas socialist paper of record. As far as newspapers the conservative ones are the Wall Street journal, the Washington times, and I believe the NY Post is as well. Now, that's three papers to the hundreds of others that have varying degrees of a liberal slant. It is because the conservative voice of the country wasn't being heard that most of the talk radio industry is now dominated by conservatives vioces. The problem with that is talk radio is like an op-ed piece. It's the same with FOX news ...the left likes to hold up Bill O'reilly but the show is really an op-ed type of show. The presses job isn't to slant or distort biased on the letter after a politicians name. It's job it to report who, what, when, where, and how. If the democrats are full of BS they need to be called on it as well is republicans.
 
Given that two wrongs don't make a right, press in the pocket's of politicians need to be vigorously stamped out regardless of who's doing it. If you can point out good evidence that there is someone particular on the left printing unattributed bias for taxpayer money, or who has been chosen soley for their political correctness to be in a governmet press pool, let me know. I'll be happy to join you in denouncing both the reporter and the corrupt politician. But don't just spew generalities and call them truths because you heard other people saying the same thing. 2 people or 20 people or 200 people saying it doesn't make it so.
The problem is that a democrat administration gets more favorable press coverage than a republican one. You will have the NY Times endorse pretty much every policy they propose and or defend any scandal they are in and the rest of the press will follow suit. There is a double standard. Liberals have a much easier time getting their talking points out. Did the Clinton administration pay journalist off like Williams? Not exactly but it did have some pretty sleazy press/ political relations. CBS news had Rita Braver and Linda Douglas cover the White house. Braver's husband is Robert Barnett Clintons' Whitewater lawyer and negotiated book deals for Clinton. This would have made them a hell of allot more money than Williams. Douglas and her husband ran in the same circles as Web Hubbel. After Hubble "resigned", her husband hooked Web up with a job that paid about 50 k to write some articles for a non profit group. Webster Hubbel was the former associate attorney general and convicted for overbilling clients, mail fraud and tax evasion. Instead of talking and later found dead, he kept his mouth shut. He later received hundreds of thousands of dollars from Lippo after leaving the Justice Department. How upset would you be if the Bush administration had FBI files of it's political enemies or barbequed a bunch of woman and children to get one crazy religious leader?
 
In that the Constitutional role of the media is to act as a check and balance of the government, this places it in a classically 'liberal' role- more power to the people and less for the government. This is historically closer to the Democratic position overall.
How can the press act as a check and balance of the government if it overwhelmingly agrees with one side. It's not close to the democrat position today at all. Today's liberals are for more and more government and less and less free speech. If you disagree with the far left your are a racist, sexist, homophobic, bigot, that is only spewing out hate speech (which they believe should be banned like in Canada).
 
VanillaGorilla said:
How can the press act as a check and balance of the government if it overwhelmingly agrees with one side. It's not close to the democrat position today at all. Today's liberals are for more and more government and less and less free speech. If you disagree with the far left your are a racist, sexist, homophobic, bigot, that is only spewing out hate speech (which they believe should be banned like in Canada).
I don't suppose you have specific examples? Hah. Nevermind....
 
Damn, this thing's not wrapping AND I DON'T KNOW WHY!

VanillaGorilla said:
Quote:
Did you have one or more specific questions?
yup Quote:
I don't suppose you care to elaborate on how a gay escort asking one question is a violation of the first amendment? Also, don't you think that people have the right to be "intolerant"? I also take it from your liberal phrasing by calling Bush "biggest gay-bashing administration ever" and "religious intolerance of gays" is referring to because he is against gay marriage? You know that anti gay marriage propositions passed overwhelming in every state they were in? See there is an example of liberalism at it's best. Any one who doesn't support gay marriage is a intolerant gay basher.
Of course I answered this already; you just didn't like the answer.
Guckert was a serious insider, as shown by the fact that:
1) He was let in the White House Press Corps day after day despite the fact that he FAILED the Congressional press background check (follow the links from this link. It's involved: Invalid Link Removed ).

This is a breach of national security. How did this happen?

He was known to be at White ouse Press Conferences BEFORE Talon News existed. He had no legitimate press credentials:
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He appears to initially be associated only with Invalid Link Removed, a partisan website. This is a violation of the first amendent.

He is granted access to inside information on the treasonous outing Valerie Plame from her deep cover, he testified before the Grand Jury and then he bragged about it on the Freeper site:
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Of course, he later lies that he wasn't subpoened...
http://199.249.170.220/eandp/search/article_display.jsp?schema=&vnu_content_id=1000799182&WebLogicSession=Qg38Q816imcyyaDxVuuiiq0WWYx23gysALy8x7GQaWgT0ae7bBS9|7105030497430354543/177738805/6/7005/7005/7002/7002/7005/-1

So this guy got classified information no one else had, and bacause of this got entangled in a treason investigation.

Oh, yeah, did I mention he is a gay prostitute that's got classified information from someone in the WhiteHouse? The last time I checked, prostitution was illegal, and the White House promoted family values, with a particular emphasis on Gays being treated like second class citizens.

Feel free to defend Guckert and the White House, but it has little to do with the ridiculous question he asked Bush. It has to do with national security.

" We have first raised a dust and then complain we cannot see." -Bishop George Berkeley
 
Of course I answered this already; you just didn't like the answer.
No you didn't info...........
I don't suppose you care to elaborate on how a gay escort asking one question is a violation of the first amendment? Also, don't you think that people have the right to be "intolerant"? I also take it from your liberal phrasing by calling Bush "biggest gay-bashing administration ever" and "religious intolerance of gays" is referring to because he is against gay marriage? You know that anti gay marriage propositions passed overwhelming in every state they were in? See there is an example of liberalism at it's best. Any one who doesn't support gay marriage is a intolerant gay basher.
First of all you didn't answer any question you posted a bunch of links to liberal news sites. Second you didn't answer any questions about your charge that the Bush adm. is the biggest gay bashing adm ever.
 
Oh, yeah, did I mention he is a gay prostitute that's got classified information from someone in the WhiteHouse? The last time I checked, prostitution was illegal, and the White House promoted family values, with a particular emphasis on Gays being treated like second class citizens.
You are too willing to see a conspiracy here info. As I said he prob. had a "client" or a boyfriend that was leaking him the information.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
The problem is that a democrat administration gets more favorable press coverage than a republican one.

...

Liberal media bias is a myth and the the Gannon affair provides yet another demonstration of it. I have seen very little coverage about this in the mainstream media even though I think we all know that had a gay whore posing as a reporter under a false name shown up to softball Clinton and his staff at press conferences we would have heard about it 24-7 on all the cable news channels.

Reporters are certainly more liberal on social issues, such as gay marriage, and the data shows this. But on economic issues they are actually less liberal than the average american and as high income earners often prefer policies that benefit the rich such as tax-cuts to the rich. See: Invalid Link Removed

Also it is the editors who choose which stories to run and they tend to be less liberal than the reporters.
In fact, in 2000 newspaper endorsements were about evently split between Bush and Gore (though in 2004 this changed after the editors realized what Bush was all about).

In terms of news coverage of the 2000 election, a respectable study by the nonpartisan Pew Charitable Trusts funder of the Project for Excellence in Journalism (from Clumbia School of Journalism) showed that Bush was twice as likely as Gore to receive positive coverage in the news and less likely to receive negative coverage. See: Invalid Link Removed

Furthermore, the so called liberal news outlets, such as NPR, try to stay detached from the stories and keep a tone of neutrality or at least they invite guests with opposing viewpoints about political stories, whereas Fox, Washinton Times and many other rightwing news sources adopt an actively pro-republican tone for their stories and in the case of fox, geenrally have twice as many republicans on as they do democrats. As for the Gannon affair, I believe fox ignored it almost entirely except for a handful of mentions.

-5
 
VanillaGorilla said:
This was because the dems have been using scare tactics with SS for years and Bill Clinton proposed what Bush is now proposing with a small amount that is invested.

More bullshit. You've been listening to too much Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. You should find some other conservative sources because those two just can't keep their facts straight.

Clinton never proposed the Bush plan. He considered investing part of the SS trustfund into the stock market to avoid having to cut SS benefits (and presumably to boost the economy), but he never talked about diverting payroll taxes into private accounts.

And I'm pretty sure the Republcans were even against that type of investment at the time - probably because they wanted to raid the trustfund and destroy SS as we now know it.

Details: Invalid Link Removed

-5
 
Please don't bash some guy for listening to Rush and Hannity and then refer to Invalid Link Removed LOL....that's just hilarious!

It comes off like this:

"Don't listen to those right wing radio whacko's!"
"Listen to these left wing whacko bloggers isntead!"

ROFLMAO.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Please don't bash some guy for listening to Rush and Hannity and then refer to Invalid Link Removed LOL....that's just hilarious!

It comes off like this:

"Don't listen to those right wing radio whacko's!"
"Listen to these left wing whacko bloggers isntead!"

ROFLMAO.

i don't care whether someone leans to the left or the right, just as long as they check their facts. mediamatters.org does just that, if you find some incorrect info on their site then please let me know.

-5
 
Liberal media bias is a myth and the the Gannon affair provides yet another demonstration of it. I have seen very little coverage about this in the mainstream media even though I think we all know that had a gay whore posing as a reporter under a false name shown up to softball Clinton and his staff at press conferences we would have heard about it 24-7 on all the cable news channels.
5 I have no wish to keep rehashing the same debates that you keep loosing. If there is no media bias then why did absolutely nothing happen to Robert Byrd when he said the N word on national TV twice? Yet when Trent Lott says maybe the world would be a better place if strom Trumonds 100th birthday party and he is crucified by the media. There have also been several studies done. Why was the swift boat vet scandal framed as a smear campaign yet Bush's service in the national guard wasn't? As of 2004 Pew Research Center did a survey of the media. According to them the media identified it's self 34 % as Liberal, 54% identified them selves as moderate, and only 7 % identified them selves as conservative. As I pointed out before that if you asked them specific questions on where they stand on issues the liberals would double.
Furthermore, the so called liberal news outlets, such as NPR, try to stay detached from the stories and keep a tone of neutrality or at least they invite guests with opposing viewpoints about political stories, whereas Fox, Washinton Times and many other rightwing news sources adopt an actively pro-republican tone for their stories and in the case of fox, geenrally have twice as many republicans on as they do democrats. As for the Gannon affair, I believe fox ignored it almost entirely except for a handful of mentions.
If you honestly believe that NPR, CBS news, and the NYT aren't biased I have a bridge to sell you.
 
More bullshit. You've been listening to too much Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. You should find some other conservative sources because those two just can't keep their facts straight.
Who said he would put SS into a lockbox 5? Which party is always trying to scare the elderly at election time? It has nothing to do with me listening to Rush which I don't by the way. It has to do with listening to democrats at election time.
Clinton never proposed the Bush plan. He considered investing part of the SS trustfund into the stock market to avoid having to cut SS benefits (and presumably to boost the economy), but he never talked about diverting payroll taxes into private accounts.
Clinton proposed the same thing or a plan similar to what Bush did and at the time the dems supported it. I posted a quote from Harry Reed some where on here in which he said he liked the idea of small private accounts. Also the ss trust fund is a myth or a fraud depending on how you look at it.
You are right Dems are good Rep. are evil. ..........Kool aide good!!!!!
 
Number 5 said:
i don't care whether someone leans to the left or the right, just as long as they check their facts. mediamatters.org does just that, if you find some incorrect info on their site then please let me know.

-5
LOL. They check their facts just the same as the Sean Hannity show does. They find the sources that best support their position. It's not that hard to figure out.

I'm not saying you don't have a point about people who get their information from sources such as Sean Hannity, and I'm sure VG gets his info from other places that Sean hannity despite your assertion. I'm simply saying you're doing exactly what you told someone else not to do. I can go to a right wing blogger site and find positions that are backed up with hundreds of sources, just as I could a left wing source, such as mediamatters.org...
 
VanillaGorilla said:
5 I have no wish to keep rehashing the same debates that you keep loosing. If there is no media bias then why did absolutely nothing happen to Robert Byrd when he said the N word on national TV twice? Yet when Trent Lott says maybe the world would be a better place if strom Trumonds 100th birthday party and he is crucified by the media. There have also been several studies done. Why was the swift boat vet scandal framed as a smear campaign yet Bush's service in the national guard wasn't? As of 2004 Pew Research Center did a survey of the media. According to them the media identified it's self 34 % as Liberal, 54% identified them selves as moderate, and only 7 % identified them selves as conservative. As I pointed out before that if you asked them specific questions on where they stand on issues the liberals would double.

If you honestly believe that NPR, CBS news, and the NYT aren't biased I have a bridge to sell you.

It misleading to people unfamiliar with the events when you claim that Byrd said the N word. That makes it sound as if he called somebody a "nigger," whereas he actually used the term "white niggers" that's quite a bit different, plus he apologized for it later. I suppose it wasn't a big story because people don't really think dems are racist. I don't see how this demonstrates a media bias though.

It's ironic that you mention Trent Lott though because his comments were largely ignored by the mainstream media, but the blogs made a stink about it and that caused the mainstream media to finally pick the story up. The Republicans are very sensitive to being labeled racist and even President Bush came out to condemn Lott's statements, so that type of stuff kept it in the news and internal pressure from the Republicans caused Lott to resign.

About liberal media, you can view the links I posted above and you'll see that economic issues journalists tend to be more conservative than americans in generals. On social and religious issues they are no doubt more liberal, but that does not mean that they are not qualified to provide factual coverage of the issues.

The truth is that the Republicans have viewed the press as an enemy for quite some time for the very reason that the press acts as a watchdog, which is why they have demonized reporters to discredit them so that people would not believe their criticism of the government anymore. The media unfortunately has become hypersensitive to this charge of liberal bias and thus is no leaning more to the right than ever before.

-5
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
LOL. They check their facts just the same as the Sean Hannity show does. They find the sources that best support their position. It's not that hard to figure out.

I'm not saying you don't have a point about people who get their information from sources such as Sean Hannity, and I'm sure VG gets his info from other places that Sean hannity despite your assertion. I'm simply saying you're doing exactly what you told someone else not to do. I can go to a right wing blogger site and find positions that are backed up with hundreds of sources, just as I could a left wing source, such as mediamatters.org...

Mediamatters and Sean Hannity are not comparable because Sean Hannity keeps making and repeating discredited and clearly misleading claims, which is not the case with Mediamatters. I'm not denying that Mediamatters has an agenda, but they still offer high quality fact checking, and you have yet to demonstrate otherwise.

-5
 
Why is "white nigger" ok but "nigger" is not? Does this mean that it is fine to use racially motivated insults against white individuals but not other races?
 
I have posted this before and I will do it again. It is legitimate research performed to find if and where a media bias exists. It represents a far better approach to the answer. I suggest individuals read it before making claims for or against media bias.

A Measure of Media Bias
Tim Groseclose Department of Political Science, UCLA, and Graduate School of Business, Stanford University Jeff Milyo Harris School of Public Policy University of Chicago

Results: How Close are Media Outlets to the Center?
Based on sentences as the level of observation (the results of which are listed in Table 8), the Drudge Report is the most centrist, Fox News’ Special Report is second, ABC World News Tonight is third, and CBS Evening is last.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
...

Clinton proposed the same thing or a plan similar to what Bush did and at the time the dems supported it. I posted a quote from Harry Reed some where on here in which he said he liked the idea of small private accounts. Also the ss trust fund is a myth or a fraud depending on how you look at it.
You are right Dems are good Rep. are evil. ..........Kool aide good!!!!!

Your Harry Reed quote was: February 14, 1999: "Most of us have no problem with taking a small amount of the Social Security proceeds and putting it in the private sector."

The problem is that Reed (Clinton) was talking about taking a portion of the SS trustfund and putting it into some index of stocks, which is fundamentally different than Bush's plan of private accounts + stock market because with private accounts you have to borrow the money to begin with and if the market takes a fall, then individual people (accounts) are screwed, whereas with the Clinton trustfund diversification plan, the risks would have been taken collectively and the benefits would also have been shared collectively.

There are other differences as well but the bottomline is that Clinton's proposal was nothing like the Bush proposal, and therefore Reed's support for the Clinton-plan cannot be equated with support for the Bush-plan. If you want the facts, then follow the link I provided. From Mediamatters.org you can find links to credible nonpartisan sources and to the original transcripts and texts involved - you can then make up your own mind.

The SS trustfund is not a myth. It was set up to prepare for the babyboomers and originally the tax revenues for it were either invested in governemnt bonds or were at least supposed to be invested in government bonds, but it may have become fraud in that Bush may have embezzled the funds from it and replaced them with the so-called IOUs, though I'm not 100% clear on the IOU thing because I keep hearing lots of contradictory info about it.

-5
 
size said:
Why is "white nigger" ok but "nigger" is not? Does this mean that it is fine to use racially motivated insults against white individuals but not other races?

I'm not saying that it's okay, just that it's different than "nigger" and I don't really think that Byrd was trying to insult the white race either.

On a sidenote, if somebody called me a white nigger on the street (I'm white), then I doubt I'd take anymore offense to it than to any other insult.

-5
 
Number 5 said:
I'm not saying that it's okay, just that it's different than "nigger"
-5

In all seriousness, why is it different? Why in some circumstances it is acceptable to use nigger and others it is unacceptable?
 
size said:
I have posted this before and I will do it again. It is legitimate research performed to find if and where a media bias exists. It represents a far better approach to the answer. I suggest individuals read it before making claims for or against media bias.

A Measure of Media Bias
Tim Groseclose Department of Political Science, UCLA, and Graduate School of Business, Stanford University Jeff Milyo Harris School of Public Policy University of Chicago

Results: How Close are Media Outlets to the Center?
Based on sentences as the level of observation (the results of which are listed in Table 8), the Drudge Report is the most centrist, Fox News’ Special Report is second, ABC World News Tonight is third, and CBS Evening is last.


This study desrves a closer look and a proper response, but I'm about to head to bed right now, so I just skimmed it and their definition of bias caught my eye:

Our Definition of Bias

Before proceeding, it is useful to clarify our definition of bias. Most important, the definition has nothing to do with the honesty or accuracy of the news outlet. Instead, our notion is more like a taste or preference. For instance, we estimate that the centrist U.S. voter during the late 1990s had a left-right ideology approximately equal to that of Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) or Sam Nunn (D-Ga.). Meanwhile, we estimate that the average New York Times article is ideologically very similar to the average speech by Joe Lieberman (D-Ct.). Next, since vote scores show Lieberman to be more liberal than Specter or Nunn, our method concludes that the New York Times has a liberal bias. However, in no way does this imply that the New York Times is inaccurate or dishonest—just as the vote scores do not imply that Joe Lieberman is any less honest than Sam Nunn or Arlen Specter.

Lieberman does not exactly strike me as a flaming liberal - I'd guess he's not too far left from the center.

-5
 
It misleading to people unfamiliar with the events when you claim that Byrd said the N word. That makes it sound as if he called somebody a "nigger," whereas he actually used the term "white niggers" that's quite a bit different, plus he apologized for it later. I suppose it wasn't a big story because people don't really think dems are racist. I don't see how this demonstrates a media bias though.
5 Give me a F'n break. What would have happened if Trent Lott said the N word in the same context? He would have had to resign not just from his leadership position from the senate. Yet, Byrd says it and there is hardly a peep. In fact most people admitted they didn't believe Lott was a racist or referring to Thurmond's bigoted past. However, they said his comments were "insensitive". So with Lott the standard is you say racially insensitive comments you get crucified in the media and loose a leadership position. Wouldn't you say that saying the n-word twice on TV is insensitive? What happened to Byrd? Nothing. So there is apparently a different standard for Ds and Rs. Thus proving bias.
It's ironic that you mention Trent Lott though because his comments were largely ignored by the mainstream media, but the blogs made a stink about it and that caused the mainstream media to finally pick the story up. The Republicans are very sensitive to being labeled racist and even President Bush came out to condemn Lott's statements, so that type of stuff kept it in the news and internal pressure from the Republicans caused Lott to resign.

You are 100% missing the point as usual. NOTHING HAPPENED TO ROBERT BYRD........AT ALL. He was in the KKK, he said N*** on national television. There were no black groups screaming for him to resign and there was almost no press coverage. They ignored it. The only press coverage it did get was FOX news ( it was on Fox news Sunday that Byrd made the comments), Talk radio, and the web. So explain to me why the press picked up the blogers story with Trent but didn't with KKK boy byrd? You can also explain the other example I gave of the swift boats vs. Bush's national guard service.
About liberal media, you can view the links I posted above and you'll see that economic issues journalists tend to be more conservative than americans in generals. On social and religious issues they are no doubt more liberal, but that does not mean that they are not qualified to provide factual coverage of the issues.
Ignore the Pew study and find a study you like that you agree with. 5 the mainstream press is overwhelmingly liberal. This is a fact. In the op-ed section liberals out number conservatives about 4 to 1. You are finding more and more that the op-ed page is creeping into the hard news. What is scary is that you are so blinded by your political ideology that you don't see it. Before you open your mouth on this subject again read the books Bias, Coloring the News, and Journalistic Fraud.
 
The SS trustfund is not a myth. It was set up to prepare for the babyboomers and originally the tax revenues for it were either invested in governemnt bonds or were at least supposed to be invested in government bonds, but it may have become fraud in that Bush may have embezzled the funds from it and replaced them with the so-called IOUs, though I'm not 100% clear on the IOU thing because I keep hearing lots of contradictory info about it.
The IOUS have been happening for a long time. All the money that is collected in taxes goes to the same place. They just write IOUs and count that as an asset making it look like the ss trust fund has money put aside when in fact it doesn't. By about 2018 the government will be spending more on ss than it takes in.
The problem is that Reed (Clinton) was talking about taking a portion of the SS trustfund and putting it into some index of stocks, which is fundamentally different than Bush's plan of private accounts + stock market because with private accounts you have to borrow the money to begin with and if the market takes a fall, then individual people (accounts) are screwed, whereas with the Clinton trustfund diversification plan, the risks would have been taken collectively and the benefits would also have been shared collectively.
Again my point was the dems have been using ss as a scare tactic for years yet now that republicans are talking about it it's really not that bad.I am for 100 % privatization.
 
Mediamatters and Sean Hannity are not comparable because Sean Hannity keeps making and repeating discredited and clearly misleading claims, which is not the case with Mediamatters. I'm not denying that Mediamatters has an agenda, but they still offer high quality fact checking, and you have yet to demonstrate otherwise.
First of all what did Hanity say that was not true 5? Give a specific example from a credible source. In other words don't get it from a left wing web site. Second, you don't think they have fact checkers in some capacity on Hanity and Colmes? Third, why do you think it's ok to berate someone who listen to Rush or Hanity but it's ok for you to post a web site that is basically written by Karl Marx?

Clinton: President Clinton: “[Investing] Will Earn A Higher Return And Keep Social Security Sound For 55 Years.� (President Bill Clinton, State Of The Union, 1/19/99)

President Clinton: “[W]hat I Believe We Should Do Is To Invest A Modest Amount Of This In The Private Sector, The Way Every Other Retirement Plan Does. The Arizona State Retirement Plan Does; Every Municipal Retirement Plan Does; Every Private Plan Does.� (President Bill Clinton, Remarks To The Citizens Of Tucson On Medicare And Social Security, Tucson, AZ, 2/25/99)

President Clinton: “[E]ven After You Take Account Of The Stock Market Going Down And Maybe Staying Down For A Few Years, Shouldn’t We Consider Investing Some Of This Money, Because, Otherwise, We’ll Have To Either Cut Benefits Or Raise Taxes To Cover Them, If We Can’t Raise The Rate Of Return.� (President Bill Clinton, Remarks Via Satellite To The Regional Congressional Social Security Forums, Albuquerque, NM, 7/27/98)
 
Here is one from one of your left wing sources
"In early April in Kansas City, Clinton held the first of what he says will be four public meetings around the country this year on Social Security. While he hasn't come out with a proposal yet, he signaled that he would entertain a whole range of changes to Social Security, including privatizing part of the system: letting workers invest part of their Social Security taxes in the stock market, instead of having the Social Security Administration invest those taxes in Treasury bills.

Clinton is not the only Democrat singing the privatization tune. Senator Bob Kerrey, Democrat of Nebraska, has been belting it out for some years now."
Invalid Link Removed
 
Byrd's 14hr filibuster against civil rights:
He also opposed desegregating the military. So it's ok for a senator with a racist and bigoted past to say the N word as long as "white" is in front of it? I am sure the same standard would have been applied to Trent Lott.lol
 
More bullshit. You've been listening to too much Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. You should find some other conservative sources because those two just can't keep their facts straight.
Again 5, I have warned you several times about your presumptions on my views and where I get information from. For the most part Rush and Hanity are cheerleaders for the republican party. I don't like Rush's personality too much so I never really listened to him. Hanity is more likable as a person IMO but he will rarely criticize republicans. The one issue he did take a stand on was boarder security. I don't like that kind of talk radio because like you do, it presupposes that republicans can never do anything wrong. If my memory serves me correctly you posted the MM web site before. They accused Chris Mathews and Tim Russert of basically of being shills for the right. Yet, they both worked for democrats. It looks like MM took it off their website to make themselves look more credible.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
First of all what did Hanity say that was not true 5? Give a specific example from a credible source. In other words don't get it from a left wing web site. Second, you don't think they have fact checkers in some capacity on Hanity and Colmes? Third, why do you think it's ok to berate someone who listen to Rush or Hanity but it's ok for you to post a web site that is basically written by Karl Marx?...
That's basically what I said and he didn't "get it".

I go to school full time, work, have an "emotionally demanding" girlfriend, have a parrot, two fish tanks (saltwater reef tanks can be time consuming), and bodybuild, so I'm not going to start chasing down sources to prove the obvious for him--especially since it's more than likely that he'll just dismiss the info anyway. I mean, hell, I hardly ever get the opportunity to prepare meals for myself to grow...I'm definately not going to spend hours on here chasing down sources and arguing over the obvious.

I'm too busy to present him with evidence proving my point (spending needless time on Google) especially since he'll probably just toss all evidence contradictory to his agenda aside.
 
size said:
I have posted this before and I will do it again. It is legitimate research performed to find if and where a media bias exists. It represents a far better approach to the answer. I suggest individuals read it before making claims for or against media bias.

A Measure of Media Bias
Tim Groseclose Department of Political Science, UCLA, and Graduate School of Business, Stanford University Jeff Milyo Harris School of Public Policy University of Chicago

Results: How Close are Media Outlets to the Center?
Based on sentences as the level of observation (the results of which are listed in Table 8), the Drudge Report is the most centrist, Fox News’ Special Report is second, ABC World News Tonight is third, and CBS Evening is last.


size, I started a new thread to address this issue properly. Please see: Invalid Link Removed

VG, I'll address Sean Hannity's dishonest reporting and your Clinton quotes later. Today I don't have time because I need to get things done and posting here about the media bias is taking way too much of my time.

Also, long ago we discussed Clinton v. Bush war on terror performance in another thread, and I meant to get back to that, but never did because I got busy with other things, but I intend to revive that thread at some point to make my case when I have time.

-5
 
What is dishonest about what Hanity said. Bill Clinton at one point favored letting workers invest part of their Social Security taxes in the stock market.
 
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