"Jeff Gannon," The Right's answer to the liberal media

No one had the testicles to take this on when I linked to it, so here it is in it's entirety:

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[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]4 points of fascism under george bush in the united states[/font]
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[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Download the informative trifold pamphlet of these 14 points Invalid Link Removed (right click, save target as)[/font]
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[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]In "Invalid Link Removed?," Invalid Link Removed identifies 14 characteristics common to fascist regimes. His comparisons of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto, and Pinochet yielded this list of 14 "identifying characteristics of fascism."[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font]
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
 Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] and let's not forget the failed "Invalid Link Removed" [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] [/font]
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[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] [/font][font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights [/font]
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed because they have supported the International Criminal Court and failed to exempt Americans from possible prosecution.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed Contractors act as interrogators: Defense Department turned to private sources to question prisoners for intelligence gathering.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font][/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font]
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link RemovedFile may take a moment to load. Flash presentation. [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] Invalid Link Removed [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] Invalid Link Removed Terrorists are likely planning U.S. attacks, a U.S. Homeland Security official said Friday.
[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed The anti-Arab campaign being waged today in the U.S. is an organised multi-pronged effort targeting a variety of Arab leaders, institutions and Islam.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font]
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]4.) Supremacy of the Military
 Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] [/font]
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[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]5.) Rampant Sexism
 The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy. [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] Invalid Link Removed [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed chairman of the FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee does not prescribe contraceptives for single women, does not do abortions, will not prescribe RU-486 and will not insert IUDs. Hager believes that headaches, PMS and eating disorders can be cured by reading Scripture.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font]
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]6.) Controlled Mass Media
 Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Bush uses tax dollars to create propaganda disguised as a news report.Invalid Link Removed (opens realplayer)[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font]
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]7.) Obsession with National Security
[/font][font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses[/font][/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed(quicktime)[/font][/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font]
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[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined
 Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] Invalid Link Removed What makes this recently established, right-wing Christian college unique are the increasingly close - critics say alarmingly close - links it has with the Bush administration and the Republican establishment.
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[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]9.) Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.[/font][/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font]
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]10.) Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. [/font][/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] [/font][font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed Union leaders are working to displace GOP candidates[/font]

[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] Invalid Link Removed Bush attacked organized labor Saturday, issuing orders effectively reducing how much money unions can spend for political activities and opening up government contracts to non-union bidding.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]March 2001: Invalid Link Removed including one that cuts the money unions will have for political campaign spending.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font]
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
 Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Invalid Link Removed[/font][/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font]
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment
 Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font]
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
 Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed (.pdf)[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font]
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.[/font][/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font][/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]This picture is what stopped the ballot recounts in Florida shortly after it seemed that legitimate President Gore had a lead. The "citizens" started what was later called "the preppy riot". Screaming, yelling, pounding on the walls, these "outraged citizens" intimidated the polling officials to halt the court mandated recount. A closer look reveals who they really were. They were bussed and flown in at Republican lawmakers expense. Some even flew in on Tom Delay's private plane.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] [/font]
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[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]If Mussolini defines fascism as "the merger of corporate and government power" what does that make the Republican party?[/font]
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Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed
With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed: Bush’s supporters demand lock-step consensus that Bush is right. They regard truthful reports that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction and was not involved in the September 11 attack on the US – truths now firmly established by the Bush administration’s own reports – as treasonous America-bashing.[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed[/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Invalid Link Removed [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/font]
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INFOHAZARD said:
Scream that I'm doing exactly what you are doing. You spew RNC talking point generalities, and then bow out when it comes time for specifics.

Somehow, I've never seen you cirticize bush. Care to link to two?
Click to expand...

I'm not one for posting links. Maybe that's ignorant but I don't have time or the movitation to dig up articles on every statement I make. If what I say isn't fact, feel free to correct me. I'll learn from it.

I'll post something if it really catches my eye - such as Dean's DNC approval. Hopefully it brings good discussion.

I criticize Bush amongst my friends (not on the internet). I kept an eye on politics more-so during the election time - and it brought me nothing but stress (i learned some new things though).

Here are a few things I see wrong with GW:
1) Economically he is WAY too liberal
2) The war is neccessary, but being fought incorrectly.
3) He caves to special interests, time and time again.
4) He is a poor speaker
5) He shouldn't campaign in short-sleeves

I'm certainly 'right' of Bush. I would have voted for Buchanan (or a strong America 1st Candidate. And to committed American-Liberal that makes me Hitler and 'an intolerant racist'.

There are spin-masters on both sides.
CNN, NBC, and CBS for the Dems.
Fox News, Rush, and Sean Hannity for the Republicans.

I listen to Michael Savage (independent conservative) when I want hear about the news. He criticizes both sides. But obviously his philosophy aligns him closer with the Republicans.

I'm not too familiar with Gannon - but I do know that you shouldn't get upset with spin. Because the media is mainly liberal (do I have a link to prove that? no I don't, most would agree with me though).

What I don't like to see is "Bush Lied" or other Michael Moore / George Soros driven ****. It's just silly at this point.

I think I'm being reasonable.
 
D_town said:
How can you compare the Jewish to terrorists. If there is a jewish terrorist, I say he's a demon. Hitler was a demon, a terrorist. Terrorist's kill innocent people with no regret for who becomes a victim. Terroist's and those who harbor/ support them, have no reason for existence in our world aside from to cause pain and death. If you think that is O.K, that is your WRONG belief. You have the right to believe anything you want. I do not ignore Washington, I believe his attitudes would be different if he lived during present times.
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You wen't from "certain nations/regimes" to "terrorists." Those are not the same thing.

Now, the Jews were placed in ethnicqlly segregated communities and were fenced in. Those were called ghettos. Now the Israelis (many jews are dissenting, however) have placed Palesinians in ethnically segregated communities and have built a big wall around it.

I think the lesson here is that among humans, there is a very real danger in becoming exactly what it is you claim to be fighting against. History is full of it, and it's exactly what Washington warned about.

I recently learned that I have an ancestor that lived in Salem villiage during the time of the witch hunts. Thank God he stayed out of the proceedings. (I also have a family member who died at Bunker Hill defending liberty)

Terrorists have no regret for who becomes a vicitm? How many Guantanimo detanees who report being torutred have been forced to be let go when they finally got the legal representation gauranuteed under the Constitution and it turned out there was no evidence against them?
 
One major diffence between the Jews and Palestinians is that the Jews are segregating the Palestinians due to the terroristic behavior of the Palestinians. They live in the same territories and the Jews are keeping the suicide bombers away from their families. At this present moment, due I have a quick-fix to the Middle East problems, no, I'm tired and feeling carpal tunnel. It's just a sad fact that we live in a violent world, do you think we should just sit back and watch everything take place on the television? Certain nations, in command by regimes of terrorists, ie. Saddam was what I was referring to. Thanks W. The DNC needs to be more pro-american ands stop being anti-republican. I believe many Dems wouldn't mind if 20,000 troops died tommorrow, just to say "I told you so!" to America about Bush. Maybe Mrs.Clinton is the ANSWER. Sorry about the RANT, I'm tired.:blink:
 
Deoudes59 said:
I'm not one for posting links. Maybe that's ignorant but I don't have time or the movitation to dig up articles on every statement I make. If what I say isn't fact, feel free to correct me. I'll learn from it.

Here are a few things I see wrong with GW:
1) Economically he is WAY too liberal
2) The war is neccessary, but being fought incorrectly.
3) He caves to special interests, time and time again.
4) He is a poor speaker
5) He shouldn't campaign in short-sleeves

I'm certainly 'right' of Bush. I would have voted for Buchanan (or a strong America 1st Candidate. And to committed American-Liberal that makes me Hitler and 'an intolerant racist'.

There are spin-masters on both sides.
CNN, NBC, and CBS for the Dems.
Fox News, Rush, and Sean Hannity for the Republicans.


I'm not too familiar with Gannon - but I do know that you shouldn't get upset with spin. Because the media is mainly liberal (do I have a link to prove that? no I don't, most would agree with me though).
Click to expand...
I knew you couldn't stay away.

1) GW- George Washington? I guess not. By the way, his policies are not economically liberal; they're suicidal. I'll post more on that shortly.

Buchanan was on the TV yesterday, arguing very eloquently that you can't export democracy from the barrel of a gun. He's massively against this war.

I disagree that CNN, CBS and NBC are liberal. They were liberal. The only liberal sites are on the net right now.

Also, I want you to consider the Constitutional role of the press- it's in the First Amendment as a check and balance on those in power. That puts them in a classically liberal role (increasing power to the People at the expense of the government). That doesn't mean they can't write whatever they want, but it is grossly unconstitutional for the administration to stack the deck.

As for Gannon, If you doubt what I say about him, you need to read up if you love the Constitution. (Don't suppose you've ever taken the oath to it, have you?)

By the way, Michael Savage's real name is Michael Wiener.

If the people tolerate their leaders lying, they deserve what they get. The right is always screaming about George Soros exercising his constitutional right to free expression. On the other hand, there have been right-wing philanthropists funding their causes for decades tothe tune of many millions of dollars. Ever heard of Richard Mellon Schaife? I didn't think so.
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In 1981, Karen Rothmeyer, a reporter for the Columbis Journalism Review tried to interview Scaife way back in 1981, and the following interaction occured:

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"Meeting Mr. Scaife Richard Scaife rarely speaks to the press- After several unsuccessful efforts to obtain an interview, this reporter decided to make one last attempt in Boston, where Scaife was scheduled to attend the annual meeting of the First Boston Corporation.

Scaife, a company director, did not show up while the meeting was in progress. Reached eventually by telephone as he dined with the other directors at the exclusive Union Club, he hung up the moment he heard the caller's name. A few minutes later he appeared at the top of the Club steps. At the bottom of the stairs, the following exchange occurred:

"Mr. Scaife, could you explain why you give so much money to the New Right?"

"You fucking Communist cunt, get out of here."

Well. The rest of the five-minute interview was conducted at a rapid trot down Park Street, during which Scaife tried to hail a taxi. Scaife volunteered two statements of opinion regarding his questioner's personal appearance - he said she was ugly and that her teeth were "terrible" - and also the comment that she was engaged in "hatchet journalism." His questioner thanked Scaife for his time. "Don't look behind you," Scaife offered by way of a goodbye

Not quite sure what this remark meant, the reporter suggested that if someone were approaching it was probably her mother, whom she had arranged to meet nearby. "She's ugly, too," Scaife said, and strode off."



AH, a tactic that has been used many times since.
 
Of course there's a problem with Social Securty. The problem is like a rabbit that's been swallowed by a snake. The snake is the economy and the rabbit is the baby-boom generation- born 1946 to 1963. I was born in 1961. In 2040, I will be 7 years old, which is approximately my expected lifespan give or take. After 1963, the birth rate dropped. The next baby boom was in the later 70's (Gen X).

Basically there are a couple of years that would not be accounted for under the current system. Hardly insurmountable.

The Lock-box that Gore kept talking about was to prevent Congress from raiding the trust fund, not that the system was intrinsically unsound. I'm all for not raiding the trust fund.
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Info you missed my whole point. The question that was asked is a valid and fair question that none in the mainstream media was willing to ask. The democrats are being hypocrites with social security. They have been using scare tactics about SS for decades but now a republican is going to do something about it and it's not that big of a deal. They also have a collective amnesia that Clinton proposed the same thing.Why aren't they asking these questions? It's because they are liberal too and don't want the dems to look bad. You made another good point about liberal bias without realizing it but not much else.
 
The Lock-box that Gore kept talking about was to prevent Congress from raiding the trust fund, not that the system was intrinsically unsound. I'm all for not raiding the trust fund.
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There is no trust fund. SS just goes down the drain like all other taxes. It is not put in a special trust fund.
 
You disagree that the Media is liberal???
Dan Rather???? CBS News???
NBC not showing the first day of the RNC???
Carville and Bagalla working on the Kerry Campaign while still hosting crossfire???

You have got to be kidding.


I'm not doubting what you say about Gannon, I just don't know him. And he's not hugely mainstream like Limbaugh - so I don't think its worth getting upset - that's just me.

Al Franken, a liar, been sued about 50 times. I'm not going to upset about him. So you shouldn't panic if there is a right-wing liar.

Soros and Moore can exercise their freedom of speech, I never said I had a problem with that.

AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT (no science essay or link needed): Soros and Moore have done more harm than good to the Democratic party. They only appeal to America-hating crackpot far left liberals.
And If you don't understand why that is, than you are much out of touch with reality.

My advice? This ignorant 22 year old suggests: chilling out and not stressing over the things you can't control. Life is too short. If that not possible, there's plenty of socialist utopias to move to.
 
You are screaming about fascism are basically trying to link it to the Bush administration which many in the far left are doing. Is socialism much better? Would you want to live in the USSR, Cuba, or China. There really isn't much difference between the two. In one system the government owns every thing and in the other the government tells everyone what to do.
 
i lose
im done, I swear (to God).

the moral of the story is: Politics is politics.
the comparsion of Bush to Hitler is ridiculous, and if you don't see why then... well nevermind.

I endorse everything that VanillaGorilla says from here on out. He is the evil Republican attack machine that I worship.
 
D_town said:
One major diffence between the Jews and Palestinians is that the Jews are segregating the Palestinians due to the terroristic behavior of the Palestinians. They live in the same territories and the Jews are keeping the suicide bombers away from their families. At this present moment, due I have a quick-fix to the Middle East problems, no, I'm tired and feeling carpal tunnel. It's just a sad fact that we live in a violent world, do you think we should just sit back and watch everything take place on the television? Certain nations, in command by regimes of terrorists, ie. Saddam was what I was referring to. Thanks W. The DNC needs to be more pro-american ands stop being anti-republican. I believe many Dems wouldn't mind if 20,000 troops died tommorrow, just to say "I told you so!" to America about Bush. Maybe Mrs.Clinton is the ANSWER. Sorry about the RANT, I'm tired.:blink:
Click to expand...
The Dems (the anti-war ones anyway) want to bring the troops HOME; rather than to get themselved killed in a bad war. That called supporting the troops. You aren't a veteran, by chance are you? This rhetorical **** about the Dems is just nasty, unfair and counterproductive to getting problems solved.

Either you take the tack that we live in a violent world and the end justifies the means, or you follow the lines that we are a nation of laws and no man is above them. You don't get to pick and choose depending on the expediancy.

We have become a nation of torturers in the eyes of the nations of the world. They will behave towards us as they see is in their interests.

As for Israel and Palistine, you are right inthat the answer is not forthcoming. We are living a continuation of Roman politics- when the romans banushed the Jews from their homeland (as a result of an anti-Roman insurrection), giving it to the non-Jewish locals. They changed the region's name from Judea to Palistine, after the Philistines. We are suck with the fallout from that, with two peoples having legitimate claims for the same land.

Further, the Isrelis have committed atrocities themselves, so it's not so one sided. There have been a number of Isreli officers- pilots- who have refused to continue the missions because they considered them evil. Of course they have been disciplined.

Now lwt's talk about the neocons. The original neocons from the 1930's started off as damn Trotskyites. They decided they were completely wrong and became very conservative (Including Irving Kristol, Bill Kristol's father). Never trust anyone who goes from one extreme to another. They rarely actually change.

I find it interesting that Wolfowitz, Feith (the son of holocaust survivors) and Perle have all set the US on a course that takes care of Israel's biggest security issues. Again, I refer to Washington's Farewell address:

"...A passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation. As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the public councils?"
 
Deoudes59 said:
i lose
im done, I swear (to God).

the moral of the story is: Politics is politics.
the comparsion of Bush to Hitler is ridiculous, and if you don't see why then... well nevermind.

I endorse everything that VanillaGorilla says from here on out. He is the evil Republican attack machine that I worship.
Click to expand...
No, I don't see why. Too bad you can't explain it to me. There are dozens of points listed above that you can go to work on. Try one or two.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
You are screaming about fascism are basically trying to link it to the Bush administration which many in the far left are doing. Is socialism much better? Would you want to live in the USSR, Cuba, or China. There really isn't much difference between the two. In one system the government owns every thing and in the other the government tells everyone what to do.
Click to expand...
You equate Democrats = Socialists = Communists. The connection is, at best wildly over-simplified, and in modern politics is essentially spurious. I have made the exact same point that there is no realpolitik difference between extremes on the right and extremes on the left.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
There is no trust fund. SS just goes down the drain like all other taxes. It is not put in a special trust fund.
Click to expand...
Care to provide evidence of this statement? It's simply incorrect.

Heres the Social Security Trust Fund Web Site:
Invalid Link Removed

At the end of 2004 there was $1,686,985,126 in the fund.


Any other witty retorts, Sherlock?
 
INFOHAZARD said:
You equate Democrats = Socialists...........
Click to expand...

Sen. Clinton said. "We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Invalid Link Removed


This sort of attitude drives towards economic cooperation over economic competition.
 
You equate Democrats = Socialists = Communists. The connection is, at best wildly over-simplified, and in modern politics is essentially spurious. I have made the exact same point that there is no realpolitik difference between extremes on the right and extremes on the left.
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You equate the bush administration with fascism is that accurate? So in you're rationale it's perfectly fine to spew out a bunch of liberal propaganda comparing Bush to Hitler but to call democrats socialists isn't ok?The definition of socialism is to take money from other people and give it away to others. I would say that is pretty much what modern day democrats stand for.
 
Care to provide evidence of this statement? It's simply incorrect.

Heres the Social Security Trust Fund Web Site:
Invalid Link Removed

At the end of 2004 there was $1,686,985,126 in the fund.
Click to expand...
The Trust Fund assets are all government IOUs.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
You equate the bush administration with fascism is that accurate? So in you're rationale it's perfectly fine to spew out a bunch of liberal propaganda comparing Bush to Hitler but to call democrats socialists isn't ok?The definition of socialism is to take money from other people and give it away to others. I would say that is pretty much what modern day democrats stand for.
Click to expand...
Actually it's state or collective ownership of property as opposed to private ownership, and that's a pretty good description of Democrats and Republicans. In our country today we're basically dealing with two opposing wings, right and left wing social democrats, as the dominant parties. Neither one would concede your authority over yourself when it conflicts with their agenda, whether it's the Dems taking your money and giving it to some slob who didn't earn it, or the Reps taking your money and giving it to some corporation that didn't earn it.
 
Actually it's state or collective ownership of property as opposed to private ownership, and that's a pretty good description of Democrats and Republicans. In our country today we're basically dealing with two opposing wings, right and left wing social democrats, as the dominant parties. Neither one would concede your authority over yourself when it conflicts with their agenda, whether it's the Dems taking your money and giving it to some slob who didn't earn it, or the Reps taking your money and giving it to some corporation that didn't earn it.
Click to expand...
I think it is best put as democrats are socialist and republicans are socialist-lite. Aside from tax cuts the Bush administration hasn't done very much that would be considered conservative.
 
Any other witty retorts, Sherlock?
Click to expand...
When anyone attempts to debate any of the issues you or call your hypocrisy on a something you simply ignore them and post a liberal link or article or change the subject all together. On top of that when you think you are making a point you tend to get a little bit sanctimonious. I offer the quote above into evidence. I am all for political debate. However, I believe that people can disagree/ debate and do it in a civil manor.
Info you believe republicans are the bad guys. That's fine that you think that. You are also probably pretty mad the Bush was reelected. After all, all the smart and sophisticated people on the east and west coast voted for Kerry .........how could Bush win? That type of thinking is fine if you want to go to a kool Aide party at Jim Jones house but it is some pretty one dimensional thinking. Most of the time if you use that type of thinking you will loose any debate you are in. Was that witty enough for you?
 
VanillaGorilla said:
You equate the bush administration with fascism is that accurate? So in you're rationale it's perfectly fine to spew out a bunch of liberal propaganda comparing Bush to Hitler but to call democrats socialists isn't ok?The definition of socialism is to take money from other people and give it away to others. I would say that is pretty much what modern day democrats stand for.
Click to expand...
I have invited you to argue that on the points, then I provided the points. Please feel free to go after anything specific.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
When anyone attempts to debate any of the issues you or call your hypocrisy on a something you simply ignore them and post a liberal link or article or change the subject all together. On top of that when you think you are making a point you tend to get a little bit sanctimonious. I offer the quote above into evidence. I am all for political debate. However, I believe that people can disagree/ debate and do it in a civil manor.
Info you believe republicans are the bad guys. That's fine that you think that. You are also probably pretty mad the Bush was reelected. After all, all the smart and sophisticated people on the east and west coast voted for Kerry .........how could Bush win? That type of thinking is fine if you want to go to a kool Aide party at Jim Jones house but it is some pretty one dimensional thinking. Most of the time if you use that type of thinking you will loose any debate you are in. Was that witty enough for you?
Click to expand...
Hey, I've been called senile, crazy and worse on this very site. I can handle it. I apologize if I've upset you. Now show me some evidence of your claims.
 
INFOHAZARD said:
Hey, I've been called senile, crazy and worse on this very site. I can handle it. I apologize if I've upset you. Now show me some evidence of your claims.
Click to expand...
Maybe if you show US some evidence you're not senile or crazy.:D
 
Enough with the onslaught of cut and paste threads.
you hate America, we get it
 
Deoudes59 said:
Enough with the onslaught of cut and paste threads.
you hate America, we get it
Click to expand...
Not one person has responded to one point, but no one has stopped yammering. You don't respond because you are too weak to. You don't dare, If you could have, you would have buried me already with actual arguments. Instead you use "sour grapes" low rhetorical tactics used when you can't take a higher road. You're not a coward are you? C'mon, just try an easy one. Try something a little better than the "Hitler didn't get elected" argument. That one didn't work, but at least he tried.

And of course you and Jarhead couldn't help showing that the rudeness goes both ways.

As for hating America? Are you (Deoudes) a veteran? How many years did you spend in the military? I spent 12 if you include reserves- 8 on continuous active duty as a USAF officer. I received hostile fire pay for 3 years.

How dare you accuse me of hating America just because I exercise my First Amendment rights and I disagree with you.

INFOHAZARD

Invalid Link Removed -Thomas Jefferson. .

Invalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed (1858 - 1919). .

Invalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed (1732 - 1799)
 
sorry man, thats just the impression that I get.

and those quotes are from liberals/progressive of their era. Today is a different era. I don't think George Washington would be on the side of Howard Dean.
thats just another impression that I get.
 
Actually I think if any of those three where alive now, there would be a viable 3rd party because of how screwed up both parties have become
 
Matthew D said:
Actually I think if any of those three where alive now, there would be a viable 3rd party because of how screwed up both parties have become
Click to expand...

Hey MattD, I just noticed in your profile it says 40yrs old. Did I miss your birthday? If I did Happy B-day bro.
 
Deoudes59 said:
sorry man, thats just the impression that I get.

and those quotes are from liberals/progressive of their era. Today is a different era. I don't think George Washington would be on the side of Howard Dean.
thats just another impression that I get.
Click to expand...
Well, that's your opinion. Looks to me like they use English and their meaning is unambiguous. Just because Liberals have been demonized in certain circles, doesn't change history. Rewriting history changes history.
 
Matthew D said:
Actually I think if any of those three where alive now, there would be a viable 3rd party because of how screwed up both parties have become
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I've been sparring so much, I forgot to tell you that I think you are right. Both parties are corrupt and will place party before Constitution if given the chance.

I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to Heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all. -Thomas Jefferson
 
INFOHAZARD said:
I've been sparring so much, I forgot to tell you that I think you are right. Both parties are corrupt and will place party before Constitution if given the chance.
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I know I said I was going to butt-out, BUT you and I actually agree on something here. I thought that was a noteworthy event :D In fact I'm sure most people would agree with this assertion.
 
"And of course you and Jarhead couldn't help showing that the rudeness goes both ways."

Hey, I was just messin with ya man. No offense intended.

Everybody here has different views and opinions on politics, and everybody has a right to. I may not agree with yours or others, but I can respect that they're your opinions. I think discussion and debate are healthy and fun, but I think this thread in particular is getting too broad in scope from where it started. But I do also agree with the statement kwyck just quoted!

Again, I wasn't trying to be rude. Maybe just a bit of a smart ass. :D
 
Not one person has responded to one point, but no one has stopped yammering. You don't respond because you are too weak to. You don't dare, If you could have, you would have buried me already with actual arguments. Instead you use "sour grapes" low rhetorical tactics used when you can't take a higher road. You're not a coward are you? C'mon, just try an easy one. Try something a little better than the "Hitler didn't get elected" argument. That one didn't work, but at least he tried.
Click to expand...
What points are you referring to? This is why it is pointless attempting to have a debate with you. People make points all the time but you chose to ignore them because most of the time it is a valid point and you were proven wrong or can't think of anything to say. Then you post another link or article that goes off on to an entirely different subject. In other words when some one makes a point you change the subject. Then on top of that you demand that people answer your questions when you entirely ignore theirs. The initial subject of the thread was that a blogger got white house press credentials and asked a question that the mainstream press decided was a soft ball question. My point was that it was a valid question that he asked. This was because the dems have been using scare tactics with SS for years and Bill Clinton proposed what Bush is now proposing with a small amount that is invested. Yet now all of the sudden SS is not really that much of a problem. You ignore this point and began posting things that basically called the Bush administration Fascist. When I called dems socialist asked how socialism was better, your only response was that it was overly simplistic and not fair to call dems socialist. When I pointed out that your being a hypocrite because were basically calling the Bush Administration Fascist, once again you ignore that and are now questioning me about SS and posting quotes. The funny thing is you think you win the debates.
 
Well, that's your opinion. Looks to me like they use English and their meaning is unambiguous. Just because Liberals have been demonized in certain circles, doesn't change history. Rewriting history changes history.
Click to expand...
Washington and the founders would all be considered right wing extremists today.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Washington and the founders would all be considered right wing extremists today.
Click to expand...

yes they would. One Nation under God. Every founding document has several references to God.

Infohazard - if you somehow think the country has gone to the RIGHT since the 1800s you're living in a fantasy world.

After all it's the liberals who chastise the founders for having slaves. Most committed "American" liberals are ashamed of America's past and present. They fail to recognize that America is the greatest force for freedom and goodness in that has ever existed.

do I have a link to prove that, no.
 
yes they would. One Nation under God. Every founding document has several references to God.
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They were for gun ownership, so that puts the founders at odds with most liberals. The constitution was written with the idea that government should be limited. I.E ......."Congress shall pass no law". The whole constitution was written to curb government power. Modern day liberals and many republicans think the solution for everything is more government.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
What points are you referring to? This is why it is pointless attempting to have a debate with you. People make points all the time but you chose to ignore them because most of the time it is a valid point and you were proven wrong or can't think of anything to say. Then you post another link or article that goes off on to an entirely different subject. In other words when some one makes a point you change the subject. Then on top of that you demand that people answer your questions when you entirely ignore theirs. The initial subject of the thread was that a blogger got white house press credentials and asked a question that the mainstream press decided was a soft ball question. My point was that it was a valid question that he asked. This was because the dems have been using scare tactics with SS for years and Bill Clinton proposed what Bush is now proposing with a small amount that is invested. Yet now all of the sudden SS is not really that much of a problem. You ignore this point and began posting things that basically called the Bush administration Fascist. When I called dems socialist asked how socialism was better, your only response was that it was overly simplistic and not fair to call dems socialist. When I pointed out that your being a hypocrite because were basically calling the Bush Administration Fascist, once again you ignore that and are now questioning me about SS and posting quotes. The funny thing is you think you win the debates.
Click to expand...
Can you show where Clinton recommended privatization of Social Security? Go ahead and teach me something.

Back to 'Gannon', Eh? Well, he was interviewed by Editor and Publisher. He was given the opportunity to clear up the allegations that he was literally a prostitute. You can read his words:

Invalid Link Removed

Well, Ive seen plenty of evidence that the Bush Administration is, in fact Fascist leaning based on the 14 points above, and absolutely no actual argument from anyone here otherwise, aside from insults.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
They were for gun ownership, so that puts the founders at odds with most liberals. The constitution was written with the idea that government should be limited. I.E ......."Congress shall pass no law". The whole constitution was written to curb government power. Modern day liberals and many republicans think the solution for everything is more government.
Click to expand...
For once I completely agree with SOMETHING you posted. Scary.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Washington and the founders would all be considered right wing extremists today.
Click to expand...
That's odd, It's my opinion that most of them would be considered left-libertarian extremists today. Most did not trust corporations. Here's quotes from the founders of the Democratic and the Republican Parties:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The
issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly
belongs." -- Thomas Jefferson


"I hope we shall take warning from the example and crush in it's [sic] birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws our country." -Thomas Jefferson


"The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of
adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than
bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question it's methods or throw light upon it's
crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the Bankers in the rear. Of
the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe..corporations have been enthroned and an era of
corruption in high places will follow, and the money powers of the country will endeavor to prolong
it's reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of
a few, and the Republic is destroyed. --Abraham Lincoln [font=arial,helvetica][size=-1]Nov. 21, 1864
(letter to Col. William F. Elkins)
[size=-2] Ref: The Lincoln Encyclopedia, Archer H. Shaw (Macmillan, 1950, NY)[/size][/size][/font]
 
jefferson: the government that governs best, governs least.
 
Deoudes59 said:
jefferson: the government that governs best, governs least.
Click to expand...
Too bad Bush outlawed prohormones. Don't trust him.

By the way, while Jefferson might have, in fact felt that way, Henry David Thoreau arributed that quote to Jefferson, but it can't actually be found among Jefferson's works. He didn't say it (in so many words, anyway)
 
Can you show where Clinton recommended privatization of Social Security? Go ahead and teach me something.
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He made a speech about it at some point. It might have been at the state of the union the last few years of he second term. Harry Reed also supported it before Bush proposed it. Look it up but I sure as hell not going to find it for you. Your not going to find it on your far left web sites. The fact that you didn't know that says allot.
Back to 'Gannon', Eh? Well, he was interviewed by Editor and Publisher. He was given the opportunity to clear up the allegations that he was literally a prostitute. You can read his words:
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Again lets forget about the points I made. Gannon was the point of this thread.
Well, Ive seen plenty of evidence that the Bush Administration is, in fact Fascist leaning based on the 14 points above, and absolutely no actual argument from anyone here otherwise, aside from insults.
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The 14 points can easily be applied to communists and socialist governments as well. It also had some pretty poor logic. To compare having a republican gay escort asking a question friendly to the Bush administration to out right control of the media is intellectually dishonest.(to put it a nice way)
 
Info - off topic, but: if you could have nominated someone to run for President on the Democratic ticket, who would that person be?

and, do you want Hilary Clinton to get the nod in 2008?
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Your right it was all Bush. Biden had nothing to do with it.
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Exactly. And everybody else in congress. King Bush isn't the only one to blame.
 
i just want to see if you thought John Forbes Kerry was as courageous as the democrats told us...
 
VanillaGorilla said:
He made a speech about it at some point. It might have been at the state of the union the last few years of he second term. Harry Reed also supported it before Bush proposed it. Look it up but I sure as hell not going to find it for you. Your not going to find it on your far left web sites. The fact that you didn't know that says allot.
Click to expand...

You won't find it because you can't. I can always back up what I say. You? You're lazy, lazy, lazy. You're weak.


The 14 points can easily be applied to communists and socialist governments as well. It also had some pretty poor logic. To compare having a republican gay escort asking a question friendly to the Bush administration to out right control of the media is intellectually dishonest.(to put it a nice way)
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You are right about all extremist governments. It's the nature of extremist governments to be totalitarian.

I'm glad that you realize Gannon is a prostitute. Now you gotta ask yourself, who did he blow or blackmail to get his job? And what are the National Security Implications? And could it possibly be a coincidence that the biggest gay-bashing administration ever has a gay whore among it's minions? It's an unconcious defense called projection. The place could be riddled with gays. Check out this exchange from the Canadian press: Invalid Link Removed

This is the tale of the two Scotts -- one American, the other Canadian. One is dark-haired, the other blond. Both are 35 and both work for the most powerful men in their respective countries.

...

Mr. Bush met Mr. Reid earlier this week at the summit in Monterrey, Mexico, just after the President's breakfast with Mr. Martin.

Mr. Reid was not initially in the hotel room where the two leaders and their closest advisers met, but was called in to brief the Prime Minister at the end as the group waited for the media.

Mr. Bush wandered over during Mr. Reid's chat with the Prime Minister. Mr. Reid introduced himself and shook hands with Mr. Bush.

"Well, what do you do for this guy?" the President asked as he pointed to the Prime Minister.

"Well, you know, sir, I can't really say," Mr. Reid said. "It's not that I don't want to. It's just that, you know, I don't really know from day to day."

This is true. Mr. Reid handles a number of files and performs a number of different duties, depending on the issue and the day.

The President chuckled. "Well, you got a pretty face," he told the surprised Mr. Reid. He wasn't done. "You got a pretty face," he said again. "You're a good-looking guy. Better looking than my Scott anyway."

I realize that to you, cheating at cards by stacking the deck is just clean fun, but putting a ringer (gay whore) into the White House Press Corps limits freedom of the press and thus is simply in violation of the First Amendment. I don't know, it also seems to violate the sacred Bush principle of family values and his religious intolerance of gays. But remember, Bush does not actually attend church regulaly unless it's a photo-op. He doen't seem to feel the need.

Gannon had public websites that grossly debauched the symbols of the United States Marine Corps. Check out the site itself. Jarhead, do you hear me? You'd better check it out if you want to know the truth. It's disgusting. Any president that would allow such a thing into the White House to further his own ends has no respect for the men and women in uniform. He hates them. He uses everyone. You look at Gannon's site and tell me how the White House could stoop to such a thing. That the whole issue sat in their blind-spot so they couldn't see this coming tells you about their unconcious.

Some day you will realize that being a part of the drumbeat does not mean you are strong, but just that you would rather not feel so weak. By the time you realize how badly you have been used, it'll be much too late.
 
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