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Is tren as good as it gets?

fueledpassion said:
U won't need 1-T cyp with Trest. However Masteron would be appropriate.
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Oh I was thinking of using injectable 1-test cyp for 3 months and 4 weeks of oral Trest to kick it off while the test / 1-T builds up. Would be a strong start. Or would you suggest injectable MENT instead? I like long cycles and really want to run 1-test for the duration, you don't think a 4 week kick start with Trest would be good?
 
Gutterpump said:
Oh I was thinking of using injectable 1-test cyp for 3 months and 4 weeks of oral Trest to kick it off while the test / 1-T builds up. Would be a strong start. Or would you suggest injectable MENT instead? I like long cycles and really want to run 1-test for the duration, you don't think a 4 week kick start with Trest would be good?
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Go injectable with trest and u will b blown away.
 
I've enjoyed MENT and of course Tren. Not to mention cheque drops and a host of other stuff. I prefer Tren over MENT, but only for a long run. For me, running Tren for 6 months will put you placed you never thought you could go strength-wise. It really kicks in around the 4th month. MENT is better for short runs like a few weeks, but I'm not crazy about MENT that much.
 
DetroitHammer said:
I've enjoyed MENT and of course Tren. Not to mention cheque drops and a host of other stuff. I prefer Tren over MENT, but only for a long run. For me, running Tren for 6 months will put you placed you never thought you could go strength-wise. It really kicks in around the 4th month. MENT is better for short runs like a few weeks, but I'm not crazy about MENT that much.
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Thanks. Yeah with tren out of the question for me, I think 3-4 months of 1-test cyp + mast with some test sounds like the winner, pretty basic but dry and strong - would be a good recomp/hardener and similar in effect to tren. From what I'm reading all over, it doesn't seem like too many sources (if any) can be fully trusted for injectable MENT.
 
Gutterpump said:
Thanks. Yeah with tren out of the question for me, I think 3-4 months of 1-test cyp + mast with some test sounds like the winner, pretty basic but dry and strong - would be a good recomp/hardener and similar in effect to tren. From what I'm reading all over, it doesn't seem like too many sources (if any) can be fully trusted for injectable MENT.
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There is one good one that when in stock is the most legit product I've bought. In fact, they are the only providers that I know of.
 
Gutterpump said:
Thanks. Yeah with tren out of the question for me, I think 3-4 months of 1-test cyp + mast with some test sounds like the winner, pretty basic but dry and strong - would be a good recomp/hardener and similar in effect to tren. From what I'm reading all over, it doesn't seem like too many sources (if any) can be fully trusted for injectable MENT.
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There is one that is highly reputable and their partner company is the board sponsor Celtic Labs. Third party testing of all raws when they get state side. Very high quality with a good selection of both short and long ester. Your test subject will see fantastic results.
 
Yes , tren is as good as it gets, and for some as bad as it gets. Some gets sides so bad they wont even run it.
It should not be run early in your cycling as it is prudent to learn to manage sides without tren in the mix because if you dont with it in the mix it could be a nightmare.
Also not matter how you cut it it is a very harsh injectable steroid.
 
Back to the topic of 1-Test cyp, how is it on joints? Does it have a similar effect on collagen as it's cousin boldenone/EQ?
 
Rodja said:
None that I've noticed. It might have the opposite effect on joints since it can dry you out.
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Thanks. EQ is also dry though, which is why I had my hopes up (since it's a tweaked version of it). I guess one could run a low dose of EQ alongside it if concerned about joints.
 
Gutterpump said:
Thanks. EQ is also dry though, which is why I had my hopes up (since it's a tweaked version of it). I guess one could run a low dose of EQ alongside it if concerned about joints.
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EQ is dry, but 1T will dry you out since it's a decent androgen.
 
EQ will do nothing for your joints at all. While it increases collagen synthesis (and so do many other steroids- even winstrol) it does nothing to increase cross-link connectivity- so it does nothing. Broscience.
One of the few steroids that will provide joint relied is deca, and that is likely due to its androgen and progestin activities. The aromatization to estrogen combined with the intrinsic anti inflammatory effects of progesterone.
 
StanleyG said:
EQ will do nothing for your joints at all. While it increases collagen synthesis (and so do many other steroids- even winstrol) it does nothing to increase cross-link connectivity- so it does nothing. Broscience.
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I agree here. EQ is dry and does not cause adequate levels of estrogen to remain present, especially if stacked with something like Mast.
 
Interesting how many people incorporate EQ solely for the purpose of aiding joints, but have been misled to believe it's helping.

I guess BPC-157 is actually the best thing available for joints/tendons/cartilage atm then, as well as HGH.
 
Gutterpump said:
Interesting how many people incorporate EQ solely for the purpose of aiding joints, but have been misled to believe it's helping.

I guess BPC-157 is actually the best thing available for joints/tendons/cartilage atm then, as well as HGH.
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MGF and GHRP injected to the site does very well, especially if those joints had prior injuries.
 
fueledpassion said:
MGF and GHRP injected to the site does very well, especially if those joints had prior injuries.
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True, I'm thinking of something more systemic though, for preventative measures and to balance out the increase in skeletal muscle strength.

BPC-157 is looking like a new top contender. Looks better than TB-500.
 
Agreed 100%

StanleyG said:
EQ will do nothing for your joints at all. While it increases collagen synthesis (and so do many other steroids- even winstrol) it does nothing to increase cross-link connectivity- so it does nothing. Broscience.
One of the few steroids that will provide joint relied is deca, and that is likely due to its androgen and progestin activities. The aromatization to estrogen combined with the intrinsic anti inflammatory effects of progesterone.
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StanleyG said:
EQ will do nothing for your joints at all. While it increases collagen synthesis (and so do many other steroids- even winstrol) it does nothing to increase cross-link connectivity- so it does nothing. Broscience.
One of the few steroids that will provide joint relied is deca, and that is likely due to its androgen and progestin activities. The aromatization to estrogen combined with the intrinsic anti inflammatory effects of progesterone.
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Deca definitely helps make joints feel better but won't do anything to strengthen or repair connective tissues though. I think a bit of water and anti-inflammatory effects are great, but are just going to cover up any issues going on, or potential problems. It won't solve wear and tear especially during a heavy cycle when muscular strength is increasing faster than connective tissue.

There's another problem as well though. I've read some post surgery logs where people were using steroids & GH / peptides for tendon/cartilage repair, and ended up with excessive scar tissue, like extreme amounts of it where the person's doctor came right out and said get off whatever you're taking.
 
Don't agree with this. I ripped my right tricep off the bone this past March and had to have surgery to re-attach it. The first surgeon said he wouldn't operate if I remained on AAS. I went to another, a much better surgeon who made no such demands. I used HGH and TRT doses of test, along with 150mgs of Anavar daily for the duration of the healing. The surgeon, not knowing I was on anything, said I had healed at a remarkable rate and that my bone density and muscles were remarkable. Although he said not to lift with my right arm while healing, I did do light curls with my right arm and full weighted curls with my left. Now, 5 months later, I am back to normal, lifting with no pain or discomfort. The year before I had broken my leg. Want to hear about what tren does?

Gutterpump said:
There's another problem as well though. I've read some post surgery logs where people were using steroids & GH / peptides for tendon/cartilage repair, and ended up with excessive scar tissue, like extreme amounts of it where the person's doctor came right out and said get off whatever you're taking.
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GHRP and MGF heal tendons/cartilage, not reduce inflammation.

U know, we don't just pull crap outta our butts just to look like we're knowledgeable...

There is enough evidence to support that GH and androgens play a role in healing purposes. Many of these androgens have a strong correlation to increased GH and IGF, which inevitably leads to MGF and growth/repair.
 
Absolutely

fueledpassion said:
GHRP and MGF heal tendons/cartilage, not reduce inflammation.

U know, we don't just pull crap outta our butts just to look like we're knowledgeable...

There is enough evidence to support that GH and androgens play a role in healing purposes. Many of these androgens have a strong correlation to increased GH and IGF, which inevitably leads to MGF and growth/repair.
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fueledpassion said:
GHRP and MGF heal tendons/cartilage, not reduce inflammation. U know, we don't just pull crap outta our butts just to look like we're knowledgeable... There is enough evidence to support that GH and androgens play a role in healing purposes. Many of these androgens have a strong correlation to increased GH and IGF, which inevitably leads to MGF and growth/repair.
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I agree, and it's exactly what I was saying. I was saying that GH and GHRP's will repair and rebuild connective tissue, but Deca won't, it will just pad the joints with fluid.

I've used deca. But post surgery, I stuck with high doses of TB-500 and CJC w/ DAC + GHRP (Ipamorelin) and got my full range of motion back within a month and was lifting again in 3 months. I have it logged in the Exercise Science forum. I think my previous post was misunderstood.
 
Gutterpump said:
I agree, and it's exactly what I was saying. I was saying that GH and GHRP's will repair and rebuild connective tissue, but Deca won't, it will just pad the joints with fluid.

I've used deca. But post surgery, I stuck with high doses of TB-500 and GHRP w/ Ipamorelin and got my full range of motion back within a month and was lifting again in 3 months. I think you misunderstood my previous post.
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10-4. All is well.
 
Yes deca will not in any way accelerate healing. If I implied that it was not my intention. It will simply relieve syptomolgy, not cure.
 
I'm on my phone right now so it's tough to type, but there was a log I was following where the subject was using GH, EQ, var and some other things post surgery, and he was complaining of a lot of pain during PT. He had more scans done and they discovered his body was over-producing scar tissue and his Dr asked him to stop taking anything. Perhaps he was taking too much, or it was unrelated, or that could've been isolated to himself, but it made me wonder at the time.

I personally had a great time with TB-500 + Ipamorelin post surgery and used low dose EQ for over a year though and that all worked well.. but I guess the EQ wasn't doing exactly what I thought it should be, well at least not everything. I'm still disappointed in that because it agrees very well with me, no sides to really speak of.
 
StanleyG said:
Yes deca will not in any way accelerate healing. If I implied that it was not my intention. It will simply relieve syptomolgy, not cure.
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Oh no worries, it wasn't implied. I was just stating that it seems that HGH / GHRP's / peptides are the only things that seem to be really effective in any way for injury repair and/or prevention (although I've read studies on var/dbol for specific injuries). Sorry to get all off topic in this thread, but I guess the knowledge will definitely benefit anyone reading.
 
DetroitHammer said:
Don't agree with this. I ripped my right tricep off the bone this past March and had to have surgery to re-attach it. The first surgeon said he wouldn't operate if I remained on AAS. I went to another, a much better surgeon who made no such demands. I used HGH and TRT doses of test, along with 150mgs of Anavar daily for the duration of the healing. The surgeon, not knowing I was on anything, said I had healed at a remarkable rate and that my bone density and muscles were remarkable. Although he said not to lift with my right arm while healing, I did do light curls with my right arm and full weighted curls with my left. Now, 5 months later, I am back to normal, lifting with no pain or discomfort. The year before I had broken my leg. Want to hear about what tren does?
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Yikes. Sorry to hear about your struggles man. I've been through a bit of the same, 2 SLAP tears and almost tore my bicep tendon right off, 75% through. And then coming back from that surgery, I injured my back twice. I've always wondered about var, read a lot about how helpful it can be. HGH definitely was helpful for me as well (GHRP's / CJC), alongside TB-500. I don't think I'll take TB-500 again though, BPC-157 looks superior but still waiting to read more logs with it in play. I think it might be the best new substance to use in adjunct to anything that will dry you out.

BPC 157 has been shown in rat studies to:

-heal torn quadriceps muscles, detached achilles tendon, muscles that have been damaged/crushed
- dramatically fast recovery from muscle tears
- tendon to bone healing
- increased ligament healing
- has a variety of protective effects in the organs
- human trials demonstrate healing and prevention of stomach ulcers
- no adverse reactions have been seen in human trials.
 
Great info... I would highly recommend never taking Tren while trying to recover from a broken bone. I learned the hard way.

Gutterpump said:
Yikes. Sorry to hear about your struggles man. I've been through a bit of the same, 2 SLAP tears and almost tore my bicep tendon right off, 75% through. And then coming back from that surgery, I injured my back twice. I've always wondered about var, read a lot about how helpful it can be. HGH definitely was helpful for me as well (GHRP's / CJC), alongside TB-500. I don't think I'll take TB-500 again though, BPC-157 looks superior but still waiting to read more logs with it in play. I think it might be the best new substance to use in adjunct to anything that will dry you out.

BPC 157 has been shown in rat studies to:

-heal torn quadriceps muscles, detached achilles tendon, muscles that have been damaged/crushed
- dramatically fast recovery from muscle tears
- tendon to bone healing
- increased ligament healing
- has a variety of protective effects in the organs
- human trials demonstrate healing and prevention of stomach ulcers
- no adverse reactions have been seen in human trials.
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Gutterpump said:
Yikes. Sorry to hear about your struggles man. I've been through a bit of the same, 2 SLAP tears and almost tore my bicep tendon right off, 75% through. And then coming back from that surgery, I injured my back twice. I've always wondered about var, read a lot about how helpful it can be. HGH definitely was helpful for me as well (GHRP's / CJC), alongside TB-500. I don't think I'll take TB-500 again though, BPC-157 looks superior but still waiting to read more logs with it in play. I think it might be the best new substance to use in adjunct to anything that will dry you out.

BPC 157 has been shown in rat studies to:

-heal torn quadriceps muscles, detached achilles tendon, muscles that have been damaged/crushed
- dramatically fast recovery from muscle tears
- tendon to bone healing
- increased ligament healing
- has a variety of protective effects in the organs
- human trials demonstrate healing and prevention of stomach ulcers
- no adverse reactions have been seen in human trials.
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U need to get over to Datbtrue's site and study up on healing. When it comes to evidence-based pharmacokinetics and supplementation, there isn't a better place to land on the web. Not to mention easy and affordable access to clinical grade peptides, non of that Chinese rubbish.
 
fueledpassion said:
U need to get over to Datbtrue's site and study up on healing. When it comes to evidence-based pharmacokinetics and supplementation, there isn't a better place to land on the web.
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Oh I've been there for a bit now :) Great site, pretty amazing info in there. I could read for hours, days, weeks. I haven't been posting around in there yet though but I might once my l-car arrives.
 
Gutterpump said:
Oh I've been there for a bit now :) Great site, pretty amazing info in there. I could read for hours, days, weeks. I haven't been posting around in there yet though but I might once my l-car arrives.
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Dude, L-Car is amazing.

It does everything they say it does. I can't wait to get my two vials worth for show prep. Stuff is a real help when training hard everyday.
 
fueledpassion said:
Dude, L-Car is amazing.

It does everything they say it does. I can't wait to get my two vials worth for show prep. Stuff is a real help when training hard everyday.
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I'm looking forward as well...should be any day now, although I have no contest to prep for hehe.. When is your show? Will you have a log for your prep?
 
Gutterpump said:
I'm looking forward as well...should be any day now, although I have no contest to prep for hehe.. When is your show? Will you have a log for your prep?
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I do have a sort of log. It's more of a conglomerate thread of an assortment of products that I am reviewing. Trest Ace vs. Trest Dec, DTA, Formabolic, L-Carn, etc.

Here it is..

Invalid Link Removed
 
^^^Right. You arent running it alone, There should be a test base. All sides management starts with proper estrogen management so using an ai to keep e2 in clinical range even when on cycle is one of the most prudent things you can do man.
 
For me, running tren with higher than TRT dosages of test just increases the side effects without much benefit. TRT dosages don't need an ai. That's all I was getting at
 
threeFs said:
For me, running tren with higher than TRT dosages of test just increases the side effects without much benefit. TRT dosages don't need an ai. That's all I was getting at
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TRT dosed run with tren very well might for many. The affinity for tren to the progesterone receptor as well as its Prolactin effects change the game man. There is an increase in estrogen sensitivity and it has even been speculated an up regulation in aromatase expression (this is proven with deca). You could be on a straight trt dose (if it truly is a trt dose - which most arent - they are higher) and be fine without an ai- throw tren in the mix and the game changes. I wouldnt pass the trt no ai needed thing along as definitive because for many there idea of trt dose is out of line as well as the things I just mentioned changing the scenario significantly. Its a case by case thing for certain.

btw- I agree lower test reduces sides when running tren. There is a reduction and easier sides management primarily due to the easier management of e2.
 
I agree... My TRT dose is 200mgs per week, per my doctor's prescription (but as stated, very few stick to that). At 200 per week I do not need and AI, confirmed by blood panels. I'm at roughly 400 per week now, which is where I always stay at, and I am not using an AI. When I get a moment to get blood work done I'll post my E2 levels at 400mgs per week. Typically my E2 is around 25. Running ridiculously high levels of tren in the past I only used T3 with a base of test at 100mgs.

threeFs said:
For me, running tren with higher than TRT dosages of test just increases the side effects without much benefit. TRT dosages don't need an ai. That's all I was getting at
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DetroitHammer said:
I agree... My TRT dose is 200mgs per week, per my doctor's prescription (but as stated, very few stick to that). At 200 per week I do not need and AI, confirmed by blood panels. I'm at roughly 400 per week now, which is where I always stay at, and I am not using an AI. When I get a moment to get blood work done I'll post my E2 levels at 400mgs per week. Typically my E2 is around 25. Running ridiculously high levels of tren in the past I only used T3 with a base of test at 100mgs.
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DetroitHammer said:
The test seems way high for only 500mgs per week. I cruise on 500 Test E per week and my levels are consistent at around 1100. If your E2 is low, why would you think an AI would help? By all means lets see what the latest blood work says. It could be that the problem is just you trying too hard and concerned that things aren't normal, making it even harder to perform. Get your blood work then it'll be easier to pin point the problem, if there is one.
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So which is it?
Hey wheres that blood work showing test levels of 1100 on 500mgs/week?
You know at some point people on here will figure out you are full of crap and dont do of take or do half the **** you say you do and give advice on. Stop making **** up and give solid, experience based, honest advice. Its getting so you cant keep the lies straight.
 
I will say that 500mg of pure Test Cyp will easily put me in the 2500's on a test.

I cruised at 650-850 on 140mg/wk. Dosed once weekly.
 
You really are an ass, aren't you? Have you ever actually used AAS or do you just read crap, post it and act like you know something? I assume it's the latter; full of crap.


StanleyG said:
So which is it?
Hey wheres that blood work showing test levels of 1100 on 500mgs/week?
You know at some point people on here will figure out you are full of crap and dont do of take or do half the **** you say you do and give advice on. Stop making **** up and give solid, experience based, honest advice. Its getting so you cant keep the lies straight.
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