Is there such a thing as a low aas responder?

[nas7]

Well ive been lifting with a buddy of mine for a bit over a year, and last year he got into the whole PH's craze. He is about 5-10, started at about 170lbs low BF, and had a few years of training. The kid looks good, real good very cut, looks much better than most people at the gym, but he got into the whole mass game, reading online about people gaining 15-20 lbs on one 4 week cycle, etc... So year ago he did a 4ad/SD cycle and gained a good 9lbs, which was fine and dandy, but since then the kid has done 4 more cycles, PP/SD/H50 etc... And he keeps complaining that the weight won’t go any higher, and every time he goes off he loses most of the gains. So he gets up to mid 180's then goes back to 178, and over again. I know his diet it good, not great but good and he does proper PCT. So today he tells me that he wants to move up to bigger things (tren/test) because PH's are a waste of time after 1 or 2 cycles. I only have 1 real cycle under my belt, and I would like to hear some opinions, is this a common thing, or are there just low responders and even real aas's wont do much? I don’t see a point of doing 4 PH cycles a year, when all there really doing is giving your 10lbs and then taking it away just so you can go back on and repeat (no real progress).

 

[BigVrunga]

Sounds like a diet issue. Stonger, longer cycles will illicit the same disappointing results until he has the basics down. A good 9lbs lean is great gains...most of the reports you hear about people gaining 15-20lbs in 4 weeks are gaining a bunch of fat and water along with it.

BV

 

[phasar]

since he is already in pretty good shape, his gains will be harder to come by. in his case, he'll probably lose half of all his gains when he was on cycle post pct. so if he is currently at 178. he should give it a break. and on his next cycle, if he wants to be at a consistent 188 post cycle, that means to say at some point DURING cycle, he should be at around 198. & ofcourse if he is 198, he'll be fatter than he wants obviously.

the bottom line with cycles is if you look "just right" while on cycle, you're going to be dissapointed, cuz it will only go downhill when the cycle ends b4 he will ever get bigger again (next cycle).

 

[bioman]

I like the fat and the water..thankyou very much, makes me feel like a pro wrestler! lol. j/k

Definitely does not have diet squared away although one complicating factor for me with orals has been recovery. Some of the stronger orals can just be hell to recover from and I have lost gains over a period of months even after a lengthy PCT with Nolva.

But for all intensive purposes it sounds as though he is not upping his calories to maintain his new, higher LBM and therefore drops back down to a weight that is supported by his average caloric intake.

 

[phasar]

bioman: so u feel that if he ups his calories and performs a proper pct that he would not lose half of his cycle gains ?

 

[bioman]

It's only a guess as I don't know all of his details, but generally it's something that a lot of people, self included, have a hard time adjusting to the fact that if you just jumped up 10 or 20 pounds on a cycle, you then need to eat as a 190 pounder instead of a 178 pounder. That's what weeds out the novices from the pros IMO.

The motivation to cram down calories when you're not hungry is a lot harder to come by then the motivation to throw iron around.

Even a proper PCT after some of these harsher orals can kinda let you down, IMO. SD and M1T are just so suppressive that it may take longer to recover. Intuitively, the longer it takes to recover, the more muscle you are going to lose before your test levels get to a point where they can support the new muscle.

Just my humble observations as I have no science to back it up, however the pattern being described sounded familiar to my own.

 

[Grifter]

Do you think maybe his receptors are burnt out from doing cycles so often? Maybe he should give it a nice long break and go natural for 6 to 9 months. I mean 5 cycles in one year even tho PH cycles is a good bit. Would that yield much better results on the next cycle. (meant the last sentence as a question)

 

[phasar]

The motivation to cram down calories when you're not hungry is a lot harder to come by then the motivation to throw iron around.

agree with you 100%

also agree with you saying that the longer you remain supressed post cycle, the more muscle lost.

someone may bust my balls for saying this, but i feel that cramming the extra calories is so damn hard that even professionals can't even do it. schwartzneggar would lose the 20+ pounds when not cycling and not within range of contest shape. and then he would gain it all back through a cycle when he needed it back. and lee priest is the exact opposite where he would get fat as a pig while off, and then get extremely ripped when he needed to.

.........hmmm. seems like i lost my point. anyways, thanks for your humble opinion

 

[phasar]

Do you think maybe his receptors are burnt out from doing cycles so often? Maybe he should give it a nice long break and go natural for 6 to 9 months. I mean 5 cycles in one year even tho PH cycles is a good bit. That would probably yield much better results on the next cycle.

...emmmm i disagree with you 100%. please don't hurt me.:run:

 

[haplochrom]

I personally dont believe in the myth of receptors being refreshed, or being burnt out for that matter, but thats a whole other topic.

People lose gains post cycle in one of two ways...

1. People werent in a good schedule of sleep, diet, workouts and lifestyle before gear, but do everything perfect on cycle. When they finish, their composure goes down the drain followed closely by physique/strength.

2. People do not understand the proper diet and/or cardio based on their cycle needs. A cutting cycle is a great misnomer as it adds muscle. YOU do the cutting, not the AAS. I can hear it now, what about tren, or clen. The 4 pounds that you might lose on tren over 8 weeks is nothing. And guys, clen is a bronchilator, like ephedrine. I will take stable and efficient cardio with a keto diet while cutting, using short esters to aid, while i would use higher carb, longer esters, and AI's to maintain a better bulking phase.

Non-responders aren't responding because of bunk gear, diet, or lifestyle.

 

[1ad man]

tren and test is good cycle ph are good but aint no roids. Best advice honestly bro train harder half the time you dont need aas or even prohormones just up your creatine and protein and calorie in take naturally and you can gain 5-7 pds in 2 months easy bro. Train hard and eat smart good luck . knowledge is power

 

[UnicronSpawn]

It seems to me your bro's problem is probably either not enough of either protien or calories or both, and possibly not sufficient PCT. I know you said he does proper PCT, but proper PCT can vary from individual to individual. I've known guys that did feeble PCT regimen's and barely lost any of their gains, but some guys can stack all the big guns in their PCT and still only keep a few pounds after a really suppressive cycle.

From your description, your bud sounds like he probably stays pretty lean all the time..... correct? Probably either ecto, or maybe ecto-meso body type. Now Im not saying he should load up on junk calories, but it is a little harder to eat immense quantities of cal's and protien (especially for ecto's) while eating 100% clean at every meal. It can be done, but some guys just will feel incredibly full with a modest # of cal's if the meal is totally "clean". If that is the case with him then he shouldnt have to much trouble shedding the fat later if he includes a cheat meal (albeit high protien however) a day, or at least every other day. If he's got a real schorcher of a metabolism he could have two high protien high cal cheat meals a day and probably not have much if any ill-effect.

Id like to know what a typical PCT for him looks like. I know money doesnt grow on tree's, but if it's an option, I am from the school of thought that it's better to go just a little overkill on PCT (as far as different bases covered, not dosage's of individual compounds.) than to underestimate the suppression and end up loosing hard earned gains. Cuz if that happens, you end up "wasting" whatever money you DID spend in order to avoid paying for something that you might be able to "get by without". But I understand the position of those who choose the less is more approach (as far as WICH compounds are used), and can sympathize. (cuz being broke really sucks.)

 

[xtraflossy]

If you dont mind, can you ask him what his PCT is like??

I beleive its his diet, and Im 80% sure. I mean, 7 pounds is a good weight increase (by the range you gave),... but,.. AAS will work to some extint, but if you dont keep diet right, then you wont gain while on aas.
You could also look at training,.. but honestly, Either his PCT is faulty (it could be just that obvious if we knew what his protocal was) but like most have already said, If you eat like a 179 pounder, you'll always be

 

[nas7]

His PCT is typical, nolva 6ox and ReboundXT, he claims he does same time on as off. I tried explaining to him that its going to get tough at this point and he already looks great, but he thinks he can do a cycle ane get to 190lbs lean, then do another one and be at 200, etc etc... We just train together sometimes, so i dont know how strict his diet is, but he says he tries to eat at least 3000-3500cal a day.

 

[LCSULLA]

His PCT is typical, nolva 6ox and ReboundXT, he claims he does same time on as off. I tried explaining to him that its going to get tough at this point and he already looks great, but he thinks he can do a cycle ane get to 190lbs lean, then do another one and be at 200, etc etc... We just train together sometimes, so i dont know how strict his diet is, but he says he tries to eat at least 3000-3500cal a day.

That faulty thinking there. The closer you are to your genetics the harder it will be to make the gains. And while gear allows you to move past your body is always fighting to go back.