Is it necessary to do front squats and back squats?

[Shiznown]

Here's the deal, I'm having surgery for acid reflux in hopefully a few weeks. So, obviously my strength is going to take a hit, because I can't lift for at least 6 weeks. The thing is, I want to quickly build up my abdominal strength. I do sumo deadlifts once a week and want to incorporate squats back in the mix once I heal. The thing is, I hate doing back squats. It takes me weeks just to get my shoulders flexible enough to do high bar and I already have some shoulder damage. So, I am considering not doing back squats anymore. Thoughts?

 

[Shiznown]

Forgot to add, even when my shoulders get flexible they very easily become stiff again. All it takes is about two weeks off of training and they're back to square one.

 

[Kha0s]

No it's not necessary I used to love them before I got injured, now I never squat. You can still get great development without them. But if you can do them, I mean nothing feels better than knowing you can squat some heavy ass weight. If I could still do them, I most definitely would. But to answer your question, no you do not NEED to do them, though they are very beneficial.

 

[TheMovement]

Goblet Squats would be a little better due to the focus on bracing your core. You shouldn't be looking to "quickly" build your core at all. Take the time to focus on the anterior and posterior support and make sure your stability isn't compromised for when front squats are safe. There putting a hole in your gut....it's going to be quite a weak spot and you need more attention to it to avoid a hernia.

 

[Pec.Major]

Here's the deal, I'm having surgery for acid reflux in hopefully a few weeks. So, obviously my strength is going to take a hit, because I can't lift for at least 6 weeks. The thing is, I want to quickly build up my abdominal strength. I do sumo deadlifts once a week and want to incorporate squats back in the mix once I heal. The thing is, I hate doing back squats. It takes me weeks just to get my shoulders flexible enough to do high bar and I already have some shoulder damage. So, I am considering not doing back squats anymore. Thoughts?

Shoulders? Do you mean upper back tightness? If you hate back squats due to your shoulder/upperback immobility I would address the problem(s) instead of avoid doing back squats. Back squats are truly a great exercise and I would not replace it for any other exercise, but I´m also a power lifter, so squats are kind of essential.

What kind of shoulder injury do you have?
Do you perform any stretching and mobility exercises daily? If not I would endorse it.

 

[Shiznown]

Shoulders? Do you mean upper back tightness? If you hate back squats due to your shoulder/upperback immobility I would address the problem(s) instead of avoid doing back squats. Back squats are truly a great exercise and I would not replace it for any other exercise, but I´m also a power lifter, so squats are kind of essential.

What kind of shoulder injury do you have?
Do you perform any stretching and mobility exercises daily? If not I would endorse it.

Fair enough, I do want to point out also that I prefer front squats because for whatever reason; I'm less prone to knee pain. I assume this is due to more upright position. Also, truth be told I don't need my glutes to get any bigger.I was also considering doing front squats for a year and get in the 300 pound range then have that carry over to back squats and alternate, but to have a full year with just front squats.

 

[PaulBlack]

Forgot to add, even when my shoulders get flexible they very easily become stiff again. All it takes is about two weeks off of training and they're back to square one.

Well, IMO stretching and or flexibility work, can be done perhaps 3x weekly pretty much consistently. If one backs off of it, (from my experiences) the muscles/tendons/ligaments will again adapt to only the ROM they are getting. Especially if much of the work is done with arms only in front of the body, without overhead and or rotator cuff flexibility work.

Short answer on the squats is, no. Why would you "have" to squat? Unless you were PLing in a comp and wanted a back squat number!?
Plus, doing front squats is probably more effective than none at all. Lots of oly lifters thrive on fronts.
As was mentioned by "TheMovement" above, goblet squats can be an option or...
Hip belt squats
Zercher Harness (more like fronts however)
Trap Bar deads or suitcase lifts from deficit
Frank Zane Leg Blaster Invalid Link Removed
Leg Pressing

If you are so interested in back squats and still want to...
Have you had someone with experience look at your form?
If your knees hurt from back squats, is your knees tracking over the feet?
Have you tried other shoes, slight heel, no heel?

 

[CJuggernaut]

I've coached people that do and don't squat. My first option is always back squats (best leg development noted on those that do) but, it's not always possible (physical limitations).

The order listed below ranked top to bottom have been the best options from my observations if not back squaring.
-front squats
-trap bar squats
-leg press
-smith front squats
-hack squats
-machine back or front squats

Many other options and mechanically something else might work better for you) go down a list of leg exercises each for 4 to 6 weeks (need time to determine if they are affective for you).

 

[jesus_sanchez]

Im at an age where front squats just make more sense now. And, its balanced out my gate which i didnt even know was off!

 

[Shiznown]

Well, IMO stretching and or flexibility work, can be done perhaps 3x weekly pretty much consistently. If one backs off of it, (from my experiences) the muscles/tendons/ligaments will again adapt to only the ROM they are getting. Especially if much of the work is done with arms only in front of the body, without overhead and or rotator cuff flexibility work.

Short answer on the squats is, no. Why would you "have" to squat? Unless you were PLing in a comp and wanted a back squat number!?
Plus, doing front squats is probably more effective than none at all. Lots of oly lifters thrive on fronts.
As was mentioned by "TheMovement" above, goblet squats can be an option or...
Hip belt squats
Zercher Harness (more like fronts however)
Trap Bar deads or suitcase lifts from deficit
Frank Zane Leg Blaster Invalid Link Removed
Leg Pressing

If you are so interested in back squats and still want to...
Have you had someone with experience look at your form?
If your knees hurt from back squats, is your knees tracking over the feet?
Have you tried other shoes, slight heel, no heel?

Well, I can't squat in shoes. I now have to wear a 6e shoe and obviously no workout shoe will coem that wide. In fact I'm waiting on these old man looking shoes I ordered. They don't even have laces, just velco straps. See the thing is, I feel at a disadvantage the father I lean forward. This is another reason why I do sumos over conventional. The more I lean forward, the more I feel compromised. Keep in mind I've been flat footed my whole life and just got my feet corrected recently. The foot doc gave me the go ahead to lift and actually said I need to lift to make the muscle and everything strong again. Also, the more forward I am, the more my knees hurt.

 

[PaulBlack]

I can certainly see your points. I suppose if I had compromising issues that would put me in a situation where it would just be easier and less risky to not do a certain lift, I would probably not do it, or wait until I was more suitable, or set up to, if I really felt the need for it. To do a lift, just because others say or do it, or just to say one does it, is probably not doing it for the right reasons, right!? Along with the choices of perhaps other variations of leg, hip and PC work out there that might be used.

 

[VO2Maxima]

Front squats are fine. Just make sure you pair them with a posterior chain dominant exercise (the deads you're doing are fine...SLDL and RDL work to shift the stress even more posterior if you want).

Do you have access to a safety squat bar or hatfield bar? Those are an excellent alternative to straight bar back squats...they're kind of like a super-high bar squat, somewhere between a high bar squat and front squat. Alternately, a buffalo bar would be easier on your shoulders to hold, and you could place that one anywhere (high bar or low bar position).

I'd also address why your shoulders are so tight, and why they go back to being tight if you don't lift for two weeks. That makes me think that whatever mobility work you do isn't getting to the root of the issue. Like maybe you're addressing your shoulders, but it's a thoracic mobility issue. Or you're stretching the shoulder capsule and not addressing the pecs. Et cetera. May be worth it to see a sports-focused physical therapist or chiropractor (stress on sports-focused...not a PT who only treats acute rehab situations and elderly people or a chiro who only does rack-and-crack) to address the root cause.

 

[Shiznown]

Front squats are fine. Just make sure you pair them with a posterior chain dominant exercise (the deads you're doing are fine...SLDL and RDL work to shift the stress even more posterior if you want).

Do you have access to a safety squat bar or hatfield bar? Those are an excellent alternative to straight bar back squats...they're kind of like a super-high bar squat, somewhere between a high bar squat and front squat. Alternately, a buffalo bar would be easier on your shoulders to hold, and you could place that one anywhere (high bar or low bar position).

I'd also address why your shoulders are so tight, and why they go back to being tight if you don't lift for two weeks. That makes me think that whatever mobility work you do isn't getting to the root of the issue. Like maybe you're addressing your shoulders, but it's a thoracic mobility issue. Or you're stretching the shoulder capsule and not addressing the pecs. Et cetera. May be worth it to see a sports-focused physical therapist or chiropractor (stress on sports-focused...not a PT who only treats acute rehab situations and elderly people or a chiro who only does rack-and-crack) to address the root cause.

Thank you. I might have trouble finding a chiro like that. my insurance thankfully will pay for a chiro, however right now I don't have a car and it'll be at least a year before I do. The chiro in walking distance I stopped seeing because even though he cracked my back, he had me do all these exercises that didn't help and he flat out told me not to lift anymore; that deadlifts and squats were dangerous. Later on I went to PT for the same type of low back pain and they had me do low weight dumbbell deadlifts to strengthen the muscles. Since then I've had my feet surgery. So, yeah that why I'm not seeing a chiro right now.

 

[VO2Maxima]

Thank you. I might have trouble finding a chiro like that. my insurance thankfully will pay for a chiro, however right now I don't have a car and it'll be at least a year before I do. The chiro in walking distance I stopped seeing because even though he cracked my back, he had me do all these exercises that didn't help and he flat out told me not to lift anymore; that deadlifts and squats were dangerous. Later on I went to PT for the same type of low back pain and they had me do low weight dumbbell deadlifts to strengthen the muscles. Since then I've had my feet surgery. So, yeah that why I'm not seeing a chiro right now.

Deadlifts and squats are not dangerous for all but a tiny portion of the population where they'd be contraindicated. Obviously, we all know this. But it's irresponsible for a medical professional to be dispensing information when they're clearly not educated on the subject. Anyway, since "because meatheads say so" isn't good evidence-based practice, here's a review of the literature on squats and deads that you're welcome to drop off at that chiro's office: Invalid Link Removed

I'm not sure low weight dumbbell deads are they way to go either. That sounds kind of cookie cutter, though I could be mistaken since obviously I haven't seen you perform these lifts. Did the PT actually do any useful screening or watch you squat and deadlift and break down the motions?

 

[Shiznown]

Deadlifts and squats are not dangerous for all but a tiny portion of the population where they'd be contraindicated. Obviously, we all know this. But it's irresponsible for a medical professional to be dispensing information when they're clearly not educated on the subject. Anyway, since "because meatheads say so" isn't good evidence-based practice, here's a review of the literature on squats and deads that you're welcome to drop off at that chiro's office: Invalid Link Removed

I'm not sure low weight dumbbell deads are they way to go either. That sounds kind of cookie cutter, though I could be mistaken since obviously I haven't seen you perform these lifts. Did the PT actually do any useful screening or watch you squat and deadlift and break down the motions?

Not really. They didn't even mention about how I needed my flat feet fixed. My lower back actually feels better after sumo deadlifts. The folks at PT did help when I had a pec pull(thought I tore it but just pulled it) and when I went for exercises after I had foot surgery, although I went to a different place for that. Oh yeah, they did have me do hack squats in PT before, but it hurt my knees due to how my knees used to face forward pre-surgery.

 

[VO2Maxima]

Not really. They didn't even mention about how I needed my flat feet fixed. My lower back actually feels better after sumo deadlifts. The folks at PT did help when I had a pec pull(thought I tore it but just pulled it) and when I went for exercises after I had foot surgery, although I went to a different place for that. Oh yeah, they did have me do hack squats in PT before, but it hurt my knees due to how my knees used to face forward pre-surgery.

Why do you need your flat feet fixed? Do they cause pain or is it just an aesthetic thing? Strengthen hips (particularly glute medius), do small foot exercises and Ebbett's foot drills to strengthen intrinsic foot muscles (YouTube those), and do some soft tissue release on peroneus muscles (YouTube Active Release Technique for peroneus longus and brevis, should be able to find something that way). Those probably won't change the aesthetics of your feet, but they'll help with function.

Sumo deads keep your back more upright, and shift some of the focus from your low back to your quads. They will, of course, still strengthen your low back though.

 

[Shiznown]

Why do you need your flat feet fixed? Do they cause pain or is it just an aesthetic thing? Strengthen hips (particularly glute medius), do small foot exercises and Ebbett's foot drills to strengthen intrinsic foot muscles (YouTube those), and do some soft tissue release on peroneus muscles (YouTube Active Release Technique for peroneus longus and brevis, should be able to find something that way). Those probably won't change the aesthetics of your feet, but they'll help with function.

Sumo deads keep your back more upright, and shift some of the focus from your low back to your quads. They will, of course, still strengthen your low back though.

They've already been fixed. The doc didn't form an arch per say, he fused the transversal tarsal. It was loose in both feet. I've always had wide flat feet and found out it was skeletal, not muscular. Anyway, my knees used to point forward but now they point out. The doc told me I might have to wear insoles and to wear them when I lift, but unlike the chiro he wants me to lift just to start out "moderate". You can't actually see an arch in my feet, except on x-rays, but the different knee position is definitely noticeable. It is weird, when I stand it feels like my feet are going to collapse in like how I'm used to. Of course they never do, thankfully. My body is just so used to them collapsing in. Also, I had major arthritis where the joints that were fused are from years of wear and tear. It got to where I could barely walk.

 

[ericos_bob]

Front squats have a direct carryover to back squats. I did fronts only for 6 months due to over developed glutes from heavy olympic back squats. I found them great for developing quad sweep and yes definitely work your core hard. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't utilize compound movements with which you are naturally comfortable. I can't do DL's or Bench Press without lower back and shoulder pain and despite being "coached" I came to the conclusion I don't need to do either to get great chest and back development. I say go ahead and stick with the front squats.