Is is time for TRT for me?

[Oopykcin1]

Hey all,

Lurking for a few years and first post.

I’m 47 yr old male.
5’8” 155 lbs
Lift weights regularly for decades - 5-6x per week.
Fairly dialed in with diet - get my protein.
Cognizant of overall health, get good sleep, mindful of circadian rhythm and metabolic health.

Libido is good.
Morning and mid-sleep erections are good.
Much tougher putting on muscle.
Lose energy midday - not uncommon. Recent bloodwork is attached and I am on the low side of Total and Free T.

Started taking Boron at 10mg and Ashwaganda at 600mg about 2 weeks ago. Will take blood test again in a month.

Stay the course? Consider TRT? Curious what you gents have to say.

Thank you

 

[Hyde]

Looks completely normal for a healthy active 47-year-old.

Do you want to use steroids? Do you want to inject yourself at least once a week for the rest of your life? Can you tolerate donating blood periodically if TRT causes your blood to become excessively thick? Are you willing to get bloodwork 2-4x/year to keep a closer eye on things with your doctor? Do you understand that TRT won’t improve everything or always feel the same over time?

These are the primary considerations.

 

[Oopykcin1]

Appreciate the response, Hyde. The bloodwork isn't an issue as I already do that 2x per year and will increase that going forward. Being a slave to TRT is a big drawback, but are there other options? I'm curious what some of you who have extensively more knowledge on the subject than I do, have to say. For example, there is a compound pharmacy near me that does offer some pills. I attached two photos of what is in two of the options. Be curious what others think of them. Who might benefit from either of them? Total crap?

 

[Rockslide]

A lot to unpack here. You are in that gray range where TRT could be great or bleh. Let’s say you get to 800-1000 which imo long term a good target…. You are increasing test by 2-2.5 times. The effects are much more drastic in guys sitting below 200. Doesn’t seem like a huge difference but that would represent a 4-5x increase in those guys. In other words…. The lower you start the more unbound androgen receptors left to bind. Even if you have good improvement you will get some androgen receptor down regulation over time and the drastic energy and libido boost will fade.

At the levels you are starting at it’s really impossible to say how much better you will feel without trying it. I know I started at 310 (on AM draw) meaning I was probably mid to low 200s in evening and it was a pretty drastic boost for me getting to 800-1200 which is where I sit on 120 mg split MWF + HCG on MTh

In regards to the lifelong commitment thing… it’s not set in stone but anyone starting trt above 35 should mentally prepare for it being a lifelong thing. Maybe you are on it 6 months and hop off and recover fine but the testicles will atrophy and there is no guarantee that if you take testosterone and it doesn’t help and you stop it in 6 months that your levels will recover. You might only bounce up to 250, feel like crap then have to go back on it to feel ok long term. HCG can help prevent atrophy and increase chances of a successful recovery if you want to jump off , provides some people awesome libido and energy benefits with the drawback that it is very expensive, is 2-3 extra shots per week, and can sometimes make estrogen hard to control.


Enclomiphene won’t shut down your natural production. Based on your LH and FSH you may have more secondary hypogonadism and it works better for this than primary testicular failure . Some guys feel very good on it, others it makes feel crappy. It’s technically a synthetic estrogen that blocks estrogen from binding in the brain and boosts Lh, FSH to stimulate testosterone release from the testis. I actually felt very good on it and started it before I started testosterone because we wanted one more kid. Not everyone feels better on it though. Again it’s a synthetic estrogen. We also don’t have long term safety data on it. The best data is from regular clomiphene which is a 50:50 mixture of Enclomiphene and it’s more estrogenic isomer zuclomiphene. It’s used for fertility in women who typically take higher doses but only like 5 days at a time to induce ovulation. To my knowledge not many long term studies on men taking it for years. Definitely case reports of it causing long term but rare vision damage in females taking those high short term bursts fwiw. I felt more comfortable with safety data on injections or pellets personally but the Enclomiphene was a good short term option for me .

 

[Renew1]

Hyde is a great source for info, and he may chime back in ....

I'm curious what your lifelong background in lifting is...

I know that it is easy to get excited, when you decide to take a step, but ...
You already took a step (Boron), but haven't waited to find out what the outcome is, yet.

Have you Really looked at the 2 lists of alternative that you posted?

Each one contains a lot of meds/compounds that you'll be taking. And some of those are only there to try and counter the possible side effects of the other ones.
Yeah, you wouldn't be Pinning. But honestly... For most of us who have decided to take that dramatic of a step (all of those orals, Or pinning), the pinning would seem preferable.

My personal advice is ... Wait and get blood work on the Boron. And then, if you feel like you Need to take another step, (methodically) take one.

 

[ironviking]

I don't think your test levels are causing your energy crashes or making it harder to put on muscle. You've been lifting for years but you are 155 at 5'8" that is quite lean. What does your total caloric intake look like? It's not just about protein, but carbohydrates and fats play a crucial role in metabolic functions. If those are low or your caloric intake is low overall that can cause your symptoms. I'd suggest finding your caloric needs, plenty of online calculators to help with that, get in 200 extra calories per day for a month and see how you feel.
Any guy on here can tell you going from a caloric deficit or even maintenance to a surplus will improve any measurable metric up to a point. For most men that point is around %15 bodyfat but everyone is a little different in that respect. Best of luck to you

 

[Oopykcin1]

Appreciate the feedback.

I have not looked into those test supps yet and was more interested in thoughts on them. I'm in a caloric deficit more than I think I am so carb increase is part of the issue. I'm considering overall health, not just weightlifting and there appears to be increasing value in ketosis/fasting (at times) on metabolic and cardiovascular health so I juggle that along with muscle gains.

I've always felt like I'm playing "in the middle" too much - do you want get cut or be good with some extra weight for a bit in order to increase muscle mass. Where the hell is the happy medium - probably doesn't exist? I've been weight training since high school. One thing I do know that helps and it is so easy to overlook - just effort in the gym. I know when I'm just going through the motions and when I'm really pushing myself - my hunger levels tell the story.

I'm holding off on anything TRT-related stuff for now and we'll see what my bloodwork comes back with in about a month.

 

[Rockslide]

Caloric deficits and overtraining can be big suppressors of test levels. Poor sleep as well. Sounds like the sleep is ok but consider those factors as things to maybe work on .

 

[AwakeningAlpha]

I have been able to go from that range, to a standing 700-800 range using natural supplements like fadogia, boron, trib, zinc, magnesium, Vitamin D, injectable L-Carnitine and one cycle of enclo to kickstart. Diet and training changes help as well.
Unlike TRT or higher exogenous test, you won't really get gains directly from higher natural levels. You will however enjoy a little less body fat from better E ratio, higher drive, and be high normal range without having to rely on TRT.
I'd say it is worth a try, unless you are looking for a base to run other fun stuff, and all other markers are healthy.