YoungThor
Well-known member
Cool. This might deserve a thread of its own. Taking an AAS as a preworkout is an interesting concept.
Is DMZ a steroid or a prohormone?
- Thread starter JoePaul39
- Start date
Cool. This might deserve a thread of its own. Taking an AAS as a preworkout is an interesting concept.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
If you were going to bulk using one steroid as a stand-alone, would you go with Trest or DMZ?
Renew1
Legend
It would be hard to pick one (for me).
I like the option of having both.
I feel DMZ adds a good bit of muscle, and recomps very well. But I also believe it's pretty toxic.
Trest (oral, I'm talking about here) will definitely put on weight, it's great for preworkout. But it's got a lot of Estrogenic type sides.
And just because I say it's great preworkout, doesn't mean that I ever forget that it's a very strong steroid.
When I take it, I'm not "taking a preworkout". I'm taking this steroid preworkout.
Renew1
Legend
Yeah..... I really just hate having things "happen to me". I like to think about what I want, and build toward that. I understand that cost and availability might be an issue for some of us, but I feel like most of us are going to do a very limited number of cycles, and they are going to be (at least to some degree) not good for us (at least in some way)...so I really try my best not to waste one of these on something that I didn't do my best to think and plan through...to make it the best for me that I could.
I try not to be like the guys I've seen posting things like...."I've got 1/2 a bottle of (blank), and 22 pills of (so and so)..what cycle can I make?"
JoePaul39
Well-known member
I’m on trt so don’t have to worry about suppression sides or pct.
HooliganNoire
New member
You only run it for 3 to 4 weeks and in that time I've heard people gain 12 to 15 pounds on it just like M-1 and M-sten, But I also hear a lot people say they loose all of it fast cause basically it just blows your muscle cells up full of water
christ83189
Well-known member
Dmz blows muscle up with water? I dont think so. Dmz is lean dry gains. Ive always kept almost all my size from it. And it just starts getting good in week 3. I always run it 8
mikeymike85
Well-known member
It blows up muscle with glycogen... I loose 50% of dmz gains in pct tho
christ83189
Well-known member
You do? I dont. Not even close. Thank god i dont pct anymore though. I hated that sh1t
Renew1
Legend
I apologise. I should have been more clear on this.
I DO NOT advocate taking steroids off cycle, as a pre-workout.
Sorry to interrupt here, guys. I just didn't want to leave that hanging out there like that. Please, carry on.
BTW, DMZ doesn't make me inflate and deflate, either.
HooliganNoire
New member
Just a quote not my opinion as I haven't used it, And I may give it try in the future stack or by itself, This is what turned me off to it in the first place, And I went with M-Sten.."Dymethazine is a “dry” compound which is usually used alone during a cutting phase or stacked with a “wet” anabolic during a bulking phase for a balanced stack. Dymethazine also has the effect of loading water into the muscles as it is an inhibitor of 11b-hydroxylase like Superdrol. In combination with the lack of subcutaneous (under the skin) water retention experienced with Dymethazine, this should produce a lean, hard look and put on pounds fast. Unfortunately with these types of steroids, much of the weight gained is water rather than muscle tissue and may be quickly lost when the cycle is discontinued."
Renew1
Legend
Sadly, a lot of the "quotes" you'll find on Google don't match the test of reality for most of us.
Ask the experienced guys on this site about DMZ (including myself), and you get a very different opinion. ...and one that is based in real world experiences.
christ83189
Well-known member
Exactly what i was thinking
HooliganNoire
New member
Great! Can't wait to try it
Mr_11B
Member
I know this is a 2 year old thread but even in 2020 I know for a fact that there are supplement stores that still sell DMZ, Msten, Trenavar etc.
Bigmatt57
Active member
Ya a lot of mom and pop supp shops near me still sell them. And then you have a skinny little 18 year old kid trying to give you advice on what to take.
Mr_11B
Member
The one near me literally won’t sell them to you unless you’re at least 21 and they’ll ask you what PCT you plan on running and if you say anything other than a serm then they won’t sell it to you.
Rad83
Well-known member
Nice ...(although I’d like to see that 21 bumped up a bit, but it is what it is lol)
Bigmatt57
Active member
Nice ...(although I’d like to see that 21 bumped up a bit, but it is what it is lol)
I feel if your 21 it’s your completely your choice to do what you want with your body. I’m not sure too many 21 year olds would be happy if the clerk wouldn’t sell them a bottle of “dmz” and there 21 lol.
Rad83
Well-known member
I don’t disagree but there’s not one dude I’ve known outside this forum, that had enough knowledge to actually run a cycle, with all safety measures in place. They didn’t know about Tudca, didn’t even know what a serm was....Cycle length, dosage...
You get enough of these irresponsible people, that don’t even need gear in the first place, and that’s why many of em are banned/illegal...& steroids are frowned upon in general. A man isn’t even fully developed until 25 if I remember correctly?
Bigmatt57
Active member
I agree you shouldn’t really touch anything until you are around 25. Unless you have superior genetics and are very dedicated and actually have a shot at becoming a pro. Because you won’t be able to even compete without them. If your not competing then the risk isn’t worth it in the long run IMO. I started using steroids around 3ish years ago when I was 22 I believe. Still a little young but I had plenty of friends using them in high school then and I was able to avoid the pressure, proud of myself for that. I still haven’t ran a “real” cycle, just pro-hormones such as M1A, DMZ, epistane, 1-Andro. I’m aware some of those are very strong orals. But I plan on running my first Test cycle in a few weeks 500mg, ten weeks and gonna pair it with M1A has kickstart. Very excited and you guys already know I’m finna log it on here
Renew1
Legend
Don't let anyone tell you that you haven't ran a real cycle.I agree you shouldn’t really touch anything until you are around 25. Unless you have superior genetics and are very dedicated and actually have a shot at becoming a pro. Because you won’t be able to even compete without them. If your not competing then the risk isn’t worth it in the long run IMO. I started using steroids around 3ish years ago when I was 22 I believe. Still a little young but I had plenty of friends using them in high school then and I was able to avoid the pressure, proud of myself for that. I still haven’t ran a “real” cycle, just pro-hormones such as M1A, DMZ, epistane, 1-Andro. I’m aware some of those are very strong orals. But I plan on running my first Test cycle in a few weeks 500mg, ten weeks and gonna pair it with M1A has kickstart. Very excited and you guys already know I’m finna log it on here
Using steroids qualities as a real cycle.
... And you used steroids.
...Glad you didn't use them in High School.
Rad83
Well-known member
@Bigmatt57 Well you’re in the right place to run a knowledgeable cycle now - Yo make sure you got a gym staying open. Mine just closed and I’m considering one an hour away and just paying day rate, unless they hook me up cuz it’s the same franchise,....
Rad83
Well-known member
Bigmatt57
Active member
I’m in Florida so I think I should be good, nobody here cares about Covid. But I have a power rack with a bench in my garage so I always got a place to workout.
KvanH
Well-known member
The matter of being too young to be taking PED's is pretty easy to understand. But what about being too old? Do you guys have an idea or opinion at what age approx it starts to be too late to be taking these kind of subtances recovery wise? I'm thinking about hormonal recovery primarly.
Now I understand that there are alot of factors here such as overall health. And for someone who's 90 yo or not in good health anything that's taxing on the body is not a good idea. This is just something I've been wondering every now and then. Many times when someone comes to the forum asking for help with cycle planning, people ask about the posters age making sure he's not too young (which is great and necessary). I've never seen anyones plans questioned due to them being too old though.
I would assume at some point the hormonal recovery from being suppressed would come more difficult and unlikely than of younger age.
Any thoughts?
I might add just in case that I don't think that there is any age where the hormonal recovery is guaranteed. But I'd think that the age plays some part in possible recovery.
Now I understand that there are alot of factors here such as overall health. And for someone who's 90 yo or not in good health anything that's taxing on the body is not a good idea. This is just something I've been wondering every now and then. Many times when someone comes to the forum asking for help with cycle planning, people ask about the posters age making sure he's not too young (which is great and necessary). I've never seen anyones plans questioned due to them being too old though.
I would assume at some point the hormonal recovery from being suppressed would come more difficult and unlikely than of younger age.
Any thoughts?
I might add just in case that I don't think that there is any age where the hormonal recovery is guaranteed. But I'd think that the age plays some part in possible recovery.
Renew1
Legend
Well, the youth thing ... Is (hopefully) about maturity, and giving your body's systems time to mature, before prematurely halting that .... for a couple of things.
But older age is very individual, and subjective.
There's not even really a age range that we could attach to our systems being old.
We've all experienced this with people we know.
Grandma worked in the garden until 98, but Grandpa didn't even live past 83.
And Grandma was HEALTHY up until a year before she died.
Grandpa was not healthy for a long time before he passed on.
This is just an example of how no upper age bracket (put into numbers) works.
KvanH
Well-known member
Well sure. No disagreement here. But if you care to humor me a bit, would you say that the same person living the same kind of lifestyle is less likely to have a hormonal recovery from suppressive PED's when they are 60 yo compared to when they are 30 yo?
I'm wondering if there's some type of age range that would rise a suspection of hormonal recovery of PED use (more than the usual suspection that is allways present). Even while taking account that everyone is different.
ANABOLICWRWLF
Well-known member
Nott sure about PEDs but the upper age limit on Legos seems to be 99.
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KvanH
Well-known member
You know what? I'm not usually a one to brag, but I've built/solved several jigsaw puzzles that has something like "3 - 6 y" written in the package, and it has took me like under a month
Hyde
Legend
I am of the opinion that you do not take anabolics unless you are willing to eventually go on HRT, because the overwhelming evidence shows conclusively that you will need it sooner than if you had never cycled. The older you get, the more likely you are to break an already declining hormonal production system. Plenty of guys in their THIRTIES use TRT/cruise. Exponentially more by Forties. At 50 & up, if you are cycling it’s almost always atop your HRT regiment.
The body can also bounce back from a lot more poison when younger. An aspiring IFBB Pro juiced to the gills at 20 years old can handle a lot more, organ & cardiovascular-wise, than a 50 year old. In fact I would say it’s basically accepted that blasts at 50+ need to be modest by comparison. And having decades of training experience and tissue accrual helps older guys get more from far less anyway.
There is an optimal window for tolerating the heaviest gear use, and it’s probably about age 20-40. The prime years of physical potency. There is a reason Masters classes in powerlifting & strongman begin at age 40. Bodybuilding might even be a bit younger than that.
Renew1
Legend
No.
Not in my opinion.
There will be agreement, and disagreement on this.
But I firmly believe this to be true.
Individual response, and reaction (for what we are talking about), is just too Widely varying to attach a number.
If you want to say ... Those over 40 should be even more careful, and be even more prepared (I think as Hyde was saying), I could agree with that.
But I've also seen a Crazy number of guys who've smashed their natural hormonal production in their 30s. .... And even 20s.
I think a better approach (as I think, again, that Hyde was referring to), would be....
Nobody of any age should Ever mess with their hormones, unless they are prepared for the possibility of fracturing their natural hormonal system.
BTW, I tell guys that all the time. ^^
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KvanH
Well-known member
Thank you for your comprehensive reply
"There is an optimal window for tolerating the heaviest gear use, and it’s probably about age 20-40."
And this tolerance icludes the possibility of hormonal recovery right? So I think you gave your opinion/estimate to my question right there.
KvanH
Well-known member
Yes, I've actually seen you remind people of the fact, that's cool
I think we are actually sharing some common ground here, just wording it differently.
Anyhow this is not that relevant for me personally, just one more thing I would like to be more educated on.
ANABOLICWRWLF
Well-known member
Same here, I just enjoy the educational banter
Hyde
Legend
I agree with Renew completely.
Actually, I mean just surviving it. Like dealing with side effects/getting less of them, less impact on bloodwork, less stress on organs/permanent damage, less chance for cardiac events like heart attacks or strokes.
I think odds of hormonal recovery do decline with age, so yes every year that passes is relevant, but I know someone who did one month of Superdrol at age 22 and never recovered. I have done probably 20 cycles over the last 9 years (many earlier ones were only 8 weeks) and still recovering between cycles it seems - but I am only 30. What if you are 43 and respond like the first guy?
So you must be prepared for TRT, worst case scenario. Because it’s impossible to predict individual response.
Thank you for your comprehensive reply
"There is an optimal window for tolerating the heaviest gear use, and it’s probably about age 20-40."
And this tolerance icludes the possibility of hormonal recovery right? So I think you gave your opinion/estimate to my question right there.
Actually, I mean just surviving it. Like dealing with side effects/getting less of them, less impact on bloodwork, less stress on organs/permanent damage, less chance for cardiac events like heart attacks or strokes.
I think odds of hormonal recovery do decline with age, so yes every year that passes is relevant, but I know someone who did one month of Superdrol at age 22 and never recovered. I have done probably 20 cycles over the last 9 years (many earlier ones were only 8 weeks) and still recovering between cycles it seems - but I am only 30. What if you are 43 and respond like the first guy?
So you must be prepared for TRT, worst case scenario. Because it’s impossible to predict individual response.
KvanH
Well-known member
Having a conversation over the internet with just writing one at a time is a bit difficult sometimes, so I don't know if everything you said here was directed at me or some parts just generally for anyone who might happen to read this thread. So again all I can say is that I agree with what you're saying and I don't think my posts have stated anything contradictory.
I will conclude here that even though I understand that there are a lot of variables in play and that hormonal recovery is never a guarantee regardless of age, I was expecting the persons age to be big enough of a factor, that you could have some kind of age range, that when passing it the recovering ability would of decreased drastically for majority.
I don't know if this clears up anything at all
I just felt like saying this since I got the feeling that we're sort of debating, even though we 90% agree on the subject. And the rest 10% we aren't really in a disagreement, it was just a question on my part.
Bigmatt57
Active member
Definitely not weak, one of the stronger orals out there. You must have gotten bunk or been a non-responder. I think many who have ran both can say DMZ is stronger than M-Sten. Not to say M-Sten isn’t strong. Now SuperDrol thats another story.
Whisky
Well-known member
dude’s a troll bro, he started a thread a month back saying superdrol is weak.......
Bigmatt57
Active member
Ya I just seen his posts, “should I not run a test base when taking superdrol, so the test doesn’t hog up my receptors”. Bro like what
ANABOLICWRWLF
Well-known member
I will again bring the analogy of the titanic VS a sailboat to the table. It's quite obvious which one can carry more passengers but saying the other isn't seaworthy is incorrect.
Hyde
Legend
DMZ>Msten
Bigmatt57
Active member
You can seriously make a case that Super-Drol is the strongest oral out there. What is a “full BB’er cycle”
I’m gonna give you the same advice I received when I first joined anabolic minds years ago- “if you know everything, then stop asking questions”
KvanH
Well-known member
What is your point? You have no point in your posts, that's why it's trolling.
No one has said that taking a **** load of stuff is not stronger than Superdrol solo.
If you are insisting in writing on this forum, then would you pay attention what is actually said. I mean it's not like this is the first thread you come with some weird angle that is not incorrect per se, but really has no point.
If you don't get results with DMZ then you should check your training and diet.
KvanH
Well-known member
Not right now, but I see it was a useless attempt and therefore just unnecessary commenting from me. Let's just leave it here.
Bigmatt57
Active member
Why are you comparing one compound to like 10? That’s like calling a big dude weak because 10 guys could kick his ass....
