Is an AI REALLY necessary on cycle?

[Chados]

From my knowledge, it only increases estro in places that don't affect the typical bodybuilder. Or doesn't really increase it at all.

I remember reading that it does increase estro, but in "good places"

I know I sound retarded lol.

I know for a fact it helps lower bad cholesterol!

I've always used just nolva for all my cycles. That's just me though

Nah I think it's more that it (can) affect estro.. it's possible but not likely or something. Basically nothing to worry about and its probably very little estrogen build up, but just giving another reason to potentially use an ai.

 

[booneman77]

Depends on the cycle, of course, and you.

"Necessary" is a pretty strong word. Strictly speaking, in this context it implies that achieving some goal is impossible without using one. So, depends on the goal.

Goal 1: prevent gyno

Goal 2: lower estrogen

Goal 3: reduce sexual dysfunction

Goal 4: reduce estrogen sensivity

Goal 5: reduce aromatase

Goal 5: increase bench max

The point here is not me making this more difficult than it need be, but to try and point out how the OP question is kinda silly in being so non-specific.

Anyway, I think an AI is probably a better "all round" ancilliary for on-cycle than just about anything else.

this is spot on.

"necessary" is 100% defined by 2 factors: the cycle and the person. everyone is a little different (sometimes a lot tho too)

as well, the comparison of nolva to an AI is silly because they do 2 totally different things...

 

[pureburl]

To reiterate what chados said. Nolva just binds to the receptor sites preventing gyno, but does nothing to lower estrogen. Even if you choose to run a serm in your cycle then you still should run an ai even if it's at a low dose. Same goes for PCT, particularly aromasin

 

[Georgiepecker]

To answer Op: No it’s not always necessary . I have been successfully running 500mg and 30mg Dbol no issue, however everybody is different. And I’m lucky

Again base everything on bloodwork is key, but I have had no symptoms so why add it in?

 

[Spurfy]

To reiterate what chados said. Nolva just binds to the receptor sites preventing gyno, but does nothing to lower estrogen. Even if you choose to run a serm in your cycle then you still should run an ai even if it's at a low dose. Same goes for PCT, particularly aromasin

Nonsense. It doesn't matter what your E2 level is if a SERM is occupying all available estrogen receptors. You could have an E2 of 1000 and you wouldn't notice a thing if you're on a SERM dose that causes full receptor saturation. For Nolva that's about 20 mg, clomid 50 mg, torem 120 mg, raloxifene 120 mg.

AIs are unnecessary and besides, E2 is *required* for muscle growth. SERMs stimulate the "good" (ER-b) E2 receptors while blocking the "bad" (ER-a) ones.

If you or anyone else wants to argue pharmacology with me, then let's do this -- I have a black belt.

 

[Georgiepecker]

Nonsense. It doesn't matter what your E2 level is if a SERM is occupying all available estrogen receptors. You could have an E2 of 1000 and you wouldn't notice a thing if you're on a SERM dose that causes full receptor saturation. For Nolva that's about 20 mg, clomid 50 mg, torem 120 mg, raloxifene 120 mg.

AIs are unnecessary and besides, E2 is *required* for muscle growth. SERMs stimulate the "good" (ER-b) E2 receptors while blocking the "bad" (ER-a) ones.

If you want to argue pharmacology with me then let's do this.

So in theory a serm on cycle would be more beneficial than an aI?

 

[RickyBlobby]

So in theory a serm on cycle would be more beneficial than an aI?

Popular concensus is no, but most of these people and just going off heresay.

SERMS do more than prevent gyno, they keep your HTPA from shutting down which is a very good reason to utilize them, in my opinion.

 

[Chados]

So in theory a serm on cycle would be more beneficial than an aI?

No that's silly. What you feel is one thing, you could feel amazing drinking beer but your body doesn't. Again it's not that complicated, if you don't want estrogen run the ai. There's no better or worse cause if your estrogen is stable you don't need the ai, however any person on this site can run a cycle strong enough to raise estrogen through the roof. Even if nolva supposedly protects you from feeling it which I don't really noticed myself but hey maybe I had some other sides.. you still have a potential rebound when you stop nolvadex. I would never ever run tren with anadrol and test without an ai I will tell you that.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Edit: repost

 

[RickyBlobby]

No that's silly. What you feel is one thing, you could feel amazing drinking beer but your body doesn't. Again it's not that complicated, if you don't want estrogen run the ai. There's no better or worse cause if your estrogen is stable you don't need the ai, however any person on this site can run a cycle strong enough to raise estrogen through the roof. Even if nolva supposedly protects you from feeling it which I don't really noticed myself but hey maybe I had some other sides.. you still have a potential rebound when you stop nolvadex. I would never ever run tren with anadrol and test without an ai I will tell you that.

I agree that no matter what you should at least have AI on hand on highly aromatizing cycles, just in case. I just think SERMS should be your go to on all cycles if nothing else than to maintain HTPA function.

 

[Chados]

this is spot on.

"necessary" is 100% defined by 2 factors: the cycle and the person. everyone is a little different (sometimes a lot tho too)

as well, the comparison of nolva to an AI is silly because they do 2 totally different things...

This is also spot on.. anyone can run a cycle stronger then the other person and at one point it just doesn't matter who you are. I find it extremly hard to believe many people being able to run 500 mg of test with nothing to block or control estro their whole life. One cycle sure but as individuals we don't react the same each cycle either. I am not sensitive and I have been without an ai or nolvadex and at one point with a low dosage on some mild ph I got lumps. Sometimes it just happens

 

[Georgiepecker]

No that's silly. What you feel is one thing, you could feel amazing drinking beer but your body doesn't. Again it's not that complicated, if you don't want estrogen run the ai. There's no better or worse cause if your estrogen is stable you don't need the ai, however any person on this site can run a cycle strong enough to raise estrogen through the roof. Even if nolva supposedly protects you from feeling it which I don't really noticed myself but hey maybe I had some other sides.. you still have a potential rebound when you stop nolvadex. I would never ever run tren with anadrol and test without an ai I will tell you that.

Yeah I agree I was just wondering what you meant exactly but you clarified it

 

[pureburl]

Nonsense. It doesn't matter what your E2 level is if a SERM is occupying all available estrogen receptors. You could have an E2 of 1000 and you wouldn't notice a thing if you're on a SERM dose that causes full receptor saturation. For Nolva that's about 20 mg, clomid 50 mg, torem 120 mg, raloxifene 120 mg.

AIs are unnecessary and besides, E2 is *required* for muscle growth. SERMs stimulate the "good" (ER-b) E2 receptors while blocking the "bad" (ER-a) ones.

If you or anyone else wants to argue pharmacology with me, then let's do this -- I have a black belt.

I completely disagree. Nobody said anything about crashing your estro and having it low, but to keep it in the normal range or maybe a little high is the best option. Whether it's binding or not is besides the point. Having a lot of estrogen built up is not good for you man. Why wouldn't you want to keep it at an appropriate level?

 

[Spurfy]

Whether it's binding or not is besides the point. Having a lot of estrogen built up is not good for you man. Why wouldn't you want to keep it at an appropriate level?

Um, do you understand how ligand binding actually works? What you're saying is analogous to saying that properly-administered anticholinergics with oxime agents given as nerve gas antidotes won't protect you from organophosphate acetylcholinesterase-inhibiting nerve gas poisons (like Sarin) because you still have a lot of poison floating around your system. This is absolute, unequivocal nonsense.

If a chemical cannot bind to its receptor(s) (or other target site(s) of action), then it does absolutely nothing but float around your body aimlessly until it's processed by the liver and excreted. Even the deadliest chemicals in the world are harmless if they cannot actually bind to a receptor, structure, enzyme, DNA subunit, ("target site") etc.

Again, for hopefully the last time: High E2 is meaningless if it can't bind to receptors. It literally does absolutely nothing and just floats around the bloodstream aimlessly, probably being moody as hell having no one to talk to.

 

[Spurfy]

you still have a potential rebound when you stop nolvadex.

Cite your source or withdraw your claim.

I want a real source, a scientific source backed by data, not some wanna-be pharmacologist bodybuilder's hypothesis that you copy/pasted from some worthless website.

The only drugs that cause E2 rebound are AIs, specifically type II aromatase inhibitors like Arimidex and Letrozole. Aromasin does not cause E2 rebound because it irreversibly binds to the enzyme.