Interesting article I came across about 11-KT

[pogue]

This is one of the first articles I've seen where it was actually tested in humans and not sea creatures. It's very complex, so it's not for the faint of heart, but if you're science minded you'll find it interesting, as it has new information on 11-KT I don't think we've seen before. It talks quite a bit more about the precursors of 11-KT including 11 beta and alpha hydroxy androstenedione's that convert to 11-KT.

Beyond T and DHT - Novel Steroid Derivatives Capable of Wild Type Androgen Receptor Activation

Endocrinology. 2008 Apr;149(4):1786-92. Epub 2007 Dec 27.
Cyp11b1 is induced in the murine gonad by luteinizing hormone/human chorionic gonadotropin and involved in the production of 11-ketotestosterone, a major fish androgen: conservation and evolution of the androgen metabolic pathway.
Yazawa T1, Uesaka M, Inaoka Y, Mizutani T, Sekiguchi T, Kajitani T, Kitano T, Umezawa A, Miyamoto K.
Author information
Abstract
We have shown previously that Cyp11b1, an 11beta-hydroxylase responsible for glucocorticoid biosynthesis in the adrenal gland, was induced by cAMP in androgen-producing Leydig-like cells derived from mesenchymal stem cells. We found that Cyp11b1 was induced in male Leydig cells, or female theca cells, when human chorionic gonadotropin was administered in immature mice. Expression of Cyp11b1 in rodent gonads caused the production of 11-ketotestosterone (11-KT), a major fish androgen, which induces male differentiation or spermatogenesis in fish. As in teleosts, plasma concentrations of 11-KT were elevated in human chorionic gonadotropin-treated mice. In contrast to teleosts, however, plasma concentrations of 11-KT were similar in both sexes, despite levels of testosterone, a precursor substrate, being about 20 times higher in male mice. Because expression of 11beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 2, was much higher in the mouse ovary than in the testis, conversion of testosterone into 11-KT may occur more efficiently in the ovary. In a luciferase reporter system that was responsive to and activated by androgens, 11-KT efficiently activated mammalian androgen receptor-mediated transactivation. Our results suggest that the androgen metabolic pathway is conserved between teleosts and mammals, despite sexual dominance and reproductive functions of 11-KT being altered during evolution.
PMID: 18162527 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Cyp11b1 is induced in the murine gonad by luteinizing hormone/human chorionic gonadotropin and involved in the production of 11-ketotestosterone, a... - PubMed - NCBI

Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2013 Sep 5;377(1-2):135-46. doi: 10.1016/j.mce.2013.07.006. Epub 2013 Jul 13.
11β-Hydroxydihydrotestosterone and 11-ketodihydrotestosterone, novel C19 steroids with androgenic activity: a putative role in castration resistant prostate cancer?
Storbeck KH1, Bloem LM, Africander D, Schloms L, Swart P, Swart AC.
Author information
Abstract
Adrenal C19 steroids, dehydroepiandrostenedione (DHEA(S)) and androstenedione (A4), play a critical role in castration resistant prostate cancer (CRPC) as they are metabolised to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), via testosterone (T), or via the alternate 5α-dione pathway, bypassing T. Adrenal 11OHA4 metabolism in CRPC is, however, unknown. We present a novel pathway for 11OHA4 metabolism in CRPC leading to the production of 11ketoT (11KT) and novel 5α-reduced C19 steroids - 11OH-5α-androstanedione, 11keto-5α-androstanedione, 11OHDHT and 11ketoDHT (11KDHT). The pathway was validated in the androgen-dependent prostate cancer cell line, LNCaP. Androgen receptor (AR) transactivation studies showed that while 11KT and 11OHDHT act as a partial AR agonists, 11KDHT is a full AR agonist exhibiting similar activity to DHT at 1nM. Our data demonstrates that, while 11OHA4 has negligible androgenic activity, its metabolism to 11KT and 11KDHT yields androgenic compounds which may be implicated, together with A4 and DHEA(S), in driving CRPC in the absence of testicular T.
Copyright © 2013 Elsevier Ireland Ltd. All rights reserved.
KEYWORDS:
17β-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase; Adrenal 11β-hydroxyandrostenedione; Androgen receptor; LNCaP androgen responsive cells; Steroid 5α-reductase

PMID: 23856005 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

11

I haven't had time to read over the whole thing yet, as it's pretty dense. But it seems there are a lot of metabolites to 11KT including a DHT and Hydroxy-DHT derivative.

One other thing I found in an ad from Patrick Arnold, who was apparently trying to market this stuff, was that it is a derivative of 3a-androstene(dione?)

Adrenodione converts to 11-ketotestosterone" AX says in his ads. "Forty percent as androgenic as testosterone but seventy percent as anabolic - giving a positive ratio of 1.8."

Upjohns 4-methyl-11-beta-hydroxy-anabolen (Text in Dutch or German)

 

[Vikingbro]

Interesting. Just started using it myself

 

[2kvette]

From what I read in exert; 11KT is powerful enough on its own to drive neoplastic hyperplasia in prostate cancer patients. But it is a partial agonist; meaning it is less powerful than test alone as far as androgenic effects go. But addition of a ketone at c11 increases anabolic effects in general. I'm just about ready to order some lab mice and do the q ratio assay myself; I can't find it in any of the literature.

 

[Woody]

So in layperson speak?

 

[Canes325]

So in layperson speak?

This

 

[2kvette]

Prostate cancer is most of the time androgen responsive. So testosterone makes it grow; so they perform a procedure called a bilateral orchidectomy(castration) to get rid of the testosterone. Then they administer another androgen(11KT) to see if it will elicit a testosterone like growth(hyperplasia) response in cancer cells. 11KT was able to bind to and activate the androgen receptor and elicit a testosterone like effect; but not as strong of an androgenic effect. So from this information we can extrapolate the androgenic side of the q ratio; but not the anabolic side. So we know it is not as androgenic as testosterone, which is good, but not how anabolic it is.

 

[hamdysayed]

Prostate cancer is most of the time androgen responsive. So testosterone makes it grow; so they perform a procedure called a bilateral orchidectomy(castration) to get rid of the testosterone. Then they administer another androgen(11KT) to see if it will elicit a testosterone like growth(hyperplasia) response in cancer cells. 11KT was able to bind to and activate the androgen receptor and elicit a testosterone like effect; but not as strong of an androgenic effect. So from this information we can extrapolate the androgenic side of the q ratio; but not the anabolic side. So we know it is not as androgenic as testosterone, which is good, but not how anabolic it is.

thank u lol I tried understanding this study i failed.

 

[2kvette]

thank u lol I tried understanding this study i failed.

This is the whole reason I got into medicine; I friggen love the pure science of it. I get science bonners from stuff like this.

 

[Canes325]

Prostate cancer is most of the time androgen responsive. So testosterone makes it grow; so they perform a procedure called a bilateral orchidectomy(castration) to get rid of the testosterone. Then they administer another androgen(11KT) to see if it will elicit a testosterone like growth(hyperplasia) response in cancer cells. 11KT was able to bind to and activate the androgen receptor and elicit a testosterone like effect; but not as strong of an androgenic effect. So from this information we can extrapolate the androgenic side of the q ratio; but not the anabolic side. So we know it is not as androgenic as testosterone, which is good, but not how anabolic it is.

Yea... I thought that's how it
Read also. I just wanted to check and make sure you knew first before saying anything...

 

[Bunshichi]

(Text in Dutch or German)

Yeah sadly its dutch so I can't really read it

 

[pogue]

Yeah sadly its dutch so I can't really read it

Just use Google or Bing translate

 

[Bunshichi]

The translators are good for two or three words at once at most.
I don't trust them since "Frei begehbare Rasenflächen" (lawns you can walk on) became "free weed" a few years ago...

 

[raul87]

Subbing as I'm currently on Sup3r 11 by itself

 

[Volvo140G]

Why was Pogue banned?

 

[2kvette]

Why was Pogue banned?

I would like to know this as well...

 

[goodvibes]

Lol @ getting banned for that

 

[Bunshichi]

I think he got banned because of the **** in the HT Superdrol Thread or what went on after that.
But I don't really know.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I thought he was walking a very fine line between genuinely wanting to be informative, and self-promoting under the pretense of the former.

 

[2kvette]

I thought he was walking a very fine line between genuinely wanting to be informative, and self-promoting under the pretense of the former.

He called me out on some legal stuff once that was not so cut and dry. What kind of self promoting did he do other than that delivery system thing?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

He called me out on some legal stuff once that was not so cut and dry. What kind of self promoting did he do other than that delivery system thing?

Hmm, I should prolly just leave it at that whilst he's not able to defend himself.

 

[2kvette]

Hmm, I should prolly just leave it at that whilst he's not able to defend himself.

Tru, not fair to him.