Thanks for the reply. So what would be the shortest cycle time you would recommend?
So what would be your shortest cycle recommendation for someone injecting test-c?
I'm just new and inexperienced and honestly still working myself over the fear of doing something safely for the first time. I was reading on More Plates More Dates that longer cycles suppress more. I was always planning PCT with HCG and a SERM. and I also read that first time cycles shouldn't exceed 7 weeks here https://insidebodybuilding.com/first-steroid-cycle/#Testosterone_Cycle
. No one ever only does 1 especially if they do it correctly
I understand, and if you don’t know it’s better to ask. There is a lot of misinformation out there, but you came to the right place. We have a good collection of knowledgeable dudes that are always glad to help.
To explain my goals I'll have to explain my history. Starting at about 35-40% bf I have been lifting heavy consistently for 2 years. I dropped down to about 30% bf in the first year with minimal attention to my diet, only consistent lifting. After a year, I dialed my diet in and started monitoring calories and macros. Now for about 7 months I have consistently hit calorie and protein goals. Got myself down to about 20% bf but with my frame am still "buff fat" at best. Most of my goals are aesthetic, but I do have some specific strength goals as well. I would like to see myself bench 250, squat 350 and DL 300 lbs and hopefully be at a low teen bf%. I'm currently stalled on both strength goals and bf% goals. I had my testosterone tested recently and it was 340, so higher than what they would prescribe TRT but when reading studies I found it was incredibly low for my age (36).
I personally do not see this time being ideal for your first cycle. Based on your post, you have been dieting (mostly) for the last two years, I would expect your total test levels to be down from that alone. But you always want IMO 2-3 total test readings, while at least in caloric maintenance for sometime prior to starting something like TRT. The total test blood draw should be done after 7-9 hrs of sleep, within 2 hours waking, ideally between 8-10 am.
I've seen a LOT of guys say that type of thing, and there is SOME truth to it.
Your not in a good position to run a cycle, I know for people who struggle with diet it's hard to hear it but loosing weight is simple, eat less and move more. Cycling won't make the diet easier and diet is the issue. When using steroids for physique goals, ideally you wanna end your cycle once your abs are no longer visible. 10% is a good starting point and 15-18 is usually time to pull the plug. The higher your bf, the more side effects. Gyno and acne are much more likely with high bodyfat as you will most likely convert to estrogen at a higher rate then normal. Also, there are androgen receptors in fat tissue, the more fat you have, the more of your gear is lost to those receptors. Honestly it's all irrelevant but I wanted to give some reasons why you should wait. Steroids build and maintain muscle well but they don't do much for fat loss. And most fat loss drugs are stimulants and heavy stim use on someone with poor cardiovascular health isint alway a great idea either. I would explore a few natural ways to see if yiu can get your testosterone up to a healthy range, (getting to a healthy bodyfat % will help too). If you do end up on try I would not push the envelope until you have gotten down to a solid healthy weight.
It's actually ramping down even longer because of the half life. But ya you are correct . In Mike's defense, say you ran 4 or 5 weeks of test e or c and stop. Your at peak concentration for about 1 week I think, there's actually a website I believe you can punch in the data and find your peak and clearance time
Yep.
Ok so after reevaluating my basal metabolic rate, it would seem like I'm a bit on the surplus side. But I feel better in the gym on my current calorie and macro reg. I'm at around 2800-3000 calories, 200+ grams of protein, less than 200 grams of carbs, and around ~150 grams of fat. So maybe I will cut 200-300 calories from that and see how I feel.
I track calories meticulously and do not eat processed food. I am after reevaluating my basal metabolic rate on a bit of a surplus. So thank you for driving me to look into that. Do you really think an appropriately planned cycle could not benefit me at the moment? I was really looking forward to it...
With where you are now, I would think a mild deficit plus a smart training program would get you where you want to go. Of course cycling would allow you to diet harder while making more strength progress at the same time, but I just do not see the point as you are still learning how to diet and program/train. I personally really think your could milk smart diet and training way more now then just doing what you are doing now with a cycle laid on top. Just my personal opinion. But I would try to leverage neurological adaptations and technique refinement to meet your strength goals atm over just trying to force it with gear. It is your choice of course. Just understand that cycling is a choice worth really thinking about. Most people do not only cycle once. Those that do not continue to refine their diet and training while cycling on and off can find it hard to maintain the gains, mainly if using cycles to brute force their way to an end goal. Understand the potential health consequences. Enlarged heart, plaque build-up, maybe not recovering fully (even if only doing one cycle), hair loss, gyno, ance, ect as just some moderate term and short term considerations.
I take my diet very serious and I have it pretty dialed. I may need to adjust my caloric intake, but there isn't much more I can do other than that. I do 4.5 -6 hours of training heavy compound lifts every week. Im open to programming suggestions but I haven't come to where I am willy nilly. I was planning on going low dose first cycle. Something that would barely put me outside of my natural levels, 125mg-200mg weekly.
I highly doubt 125-200mg would “just put you outside your natural levels”. More like 800 -1300. For example, I am 56 years old and my test is 1192 @ 150mg. My TRT dose is 100mg which puts me @ 764 last time I checked.
Oh wow I see. I was sitting at 340, when I got tested a few weeks ago and that really bothers me because I'm in my mid 30's. The doctor told me that was an acceptable result but when you read studies that examined different age groups I was way under in my age range. More on par for someone in their 60's or 70's. I also don't really want to go on full fledged TRT. I want to see if building some more muscle with a moderately small test cycle can kick start my test back into a healthier level for my age. I know it's from my bodyfat, I've had high bf since I was a teenager.
If anything, you may not recover to the level of test you have now.
Your test is low for sure. But it will go up the mire body fat you drop that's what I hope the doctor os thinking. The other thing and more importantly is you're going to be a SERIOUSLY heavy aromitizer with a body fat level thar high to where you'd probably have to take so mani ai's the health risks will by far outweigh the little bit of progress you may get. I know this sucks to hear but it is what it is right now. Back in my 20s when all I wanted to do was bulk I had to take an ai with anything over 250 mg a week. Now I can get away with doing 750mg per week with very minimal estro sides, minimal enough to where I don't need an ai. It sounds like your dead set on taking test but so I'm not going to try and dissuade you but I would atleast try another year without hopping on. Do you do fasted cardio? Have you ever carb cycled? How long have you gone with eating a gram per pound of bodyweight in protein and the same amount of complex carbs ( 1:1 ratio) try that for 12 weeks. I think there's a lot of things you can do. Remember drugs will always be there. And once you play that card it's played. Do yiu really want to play it now
Even if I was planning much smaller doses initially? I really appreciate the advice, not being argumentative. Will probably wait now. Just wondering if aromatization would still be a high risk on a dose closer to 100-125mg weekly until at a closer to target body fat?
Taking something seriously and knowing what needs to be done to achieve ones goals are not the same unfortunately. I do not doubt you that you take this all seriously, you are on the this board asking for help after all. If you are eating 20-40 g of high quality protein at least 3 times per day, with two feedings with 6 hours of each other with your resistance training in between, for a total of at 1.6g/kg bw of protein daily, then you are likely covered there. Next make sure your caloric intake matches your goals, which you identified needs to happen. The only thing after that is time.
No, no. I'm very curious about it, but you guys have managed to talk me into at least waiting. I will reevaluate my diet slightly so I can achieve my protein goals with 300-400 less calories. It actually shouldn't be that hard. I thought about it all night. I'll cycle my carbs by replacing rice as a side dish half the week with some type of eggs.
That's good. You will be glad you did it!
No I think I'm going to change my diet and reevaluate in 3-6 months. If I'm not where I need to be but still making gradual progress, I'll keep waiting. Thank you everyone for the great advice!
Sounds like you are on the right overall track. MASS has shared recently that the overall research suggests a little lower RPE like 5-7 is actually better for strength long term, yes higher RPEs are needed to calibrate your RPE ratings on lower RPE sets and you need to build the skill of high RPE training to max ect, but maybe try a top set with some lower RPE down sets to see how you fair if your current routine is not producing the results you want. This would only be on the main lifts and in the 1-5 rep range training. Just an idea to help the needle move the next 3-6 months while you give a little more time with diet and training before reconsidering PEDs.
The problem is that there really isint a appropriate cycle. If your not taking no for a answer then I would use bare bones test only and limit it to 200-300mg a week. It's not much, but if your testosterone is only 300 then this "should" put 1500-2000 easy. It's very likely your gonna need a mg or 2 of Arimidex or 25-50 (basically 2 servings of a ai per week.) There's no gurentee or cookie cutter dose. You gotta figure that out. Even if you did 1 bottle of test 1cc a week for 10 weeks you should have plenty of ai and Nolvadex on standby and it's also likely your blood pressure goes up.
I'm going to hold off altogether and wait. I appreciate the advice, I'm gonna err on the side of experience and listen to you guys
Awesome bro!! Keep up the hard work!! It's a marathon not a sprint. Keep us posted and let us know if you have any more questions
