Injectable Orals

[Matthersby]

I’m seeing a whole load of differing opinions, some grounded in science, and some not. There are some brilliant guys around here with chem/ex science degrees so I’m just gonna ask.

1. I’m seeing more and more UGLs putting out tons of different injectable orals. Everything from the super common injectable Winnie and Dbol, to the newer stuff, like injectable methylstenbolone, and just about every oral out there in injectable form, either esterfied, in oil, or in water.
2. I’m seeing common signs to of liver strain running only 15mg Msten suspended in GSO, BA, and BB. Does avoiding first pass significantly reduce liver enzyme elevation even if the methyl group attached still needs to be cleaved off?
3. I believe half life would be extended to a degree being absorbed slower than oral route.. Is that why dosage should be just slightly lower? More exposure to receptors?
4. Anyone ever had labs done while on oral Winnie vs. Injectable? Curious here...

I responded really well to oral Msten, so I’d be very excited to run a less toxic version for a 5th week. But not if it’s going to be just as unpleasant and damaging as usual...

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

eventually the methyls got to be broken down and excreted. certainly though, its going to be much less damage to your liver, IM than oral.
half life would stay the same but the time to reach peak serum levels would be different as well as bio availability. at the lower dose you mentioned, you should be getting a crap load more in your system than you are with it orally.. yet its still less toxic due to the administration route.
being that its a relatively new trend..(seeing all the orals popping up in oils) it might be hard to find blood work with ease..

 

[Matthersby]

Another issue I’m having that doesn’t make a ton of sense is lethargy and nausea. Literally feels like I’m on Oral Superdrol. I’m getting labs done because nothing is making sense on this run. Test E base is @600mg/week. Also running Prami@1, Nolva@20, [email protected](hopefully not permanent but I was running Trest and discontinued a week ago and I still need all 3. Joints and libido are awesome still so I know estro is likely still a little high. I know my body and I shouldn’t be struggling with this much lethargy and nausea after 2 weeks of Injectable Msten. Unless I’m missing something. Calling Doc to get labs done now.

 

[brofessorx]

I’ll keep it as simple as I can:
If you inject 60mg of msten or take 60mg orally, 60mg will still be filtered by the liver. So it doesn’t matter really. All of it gets metabolized by the liver.
During first pass less than 100% will make it into the blood orally ( some is initially broken down before it reaches the blood) but injection 100% makes it in.
How quickly it’s absorbed depends on what it’s suspended in. Water will be absorbed into the blood immediately, oils will be a bit slower.
Some claim anecdotally to have less hepatotoxic effects when injected. The science of it disagrees. Personally, I’ve gotten all the same sides injected as I did oral, so there’s that.

 

[Straightforwa]

I've run a few different brands of liquid orals dbol,winny,drol,and tbol. The brands I tried are all solid brands but imo tabs are far better result wise. Imo all these mom and pop ugls that pop up every second of the day started making these liquid orals cause it's easy to brew and I'm sure majority of these guys brewing claiming their a lab don't have the funds for a pill press. I sent 2 top ugls liquid dbol into lab max for testing neither came well. Another thing is with tabs I can spread the my dosing out to keep blood levels as even as possible

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Another issue I’m having that doesn’t make a ton of sense is lethargy and nausea. Literally feels like I’m on Oral Superdrol. I’m getting labs done because nothing is making sense on this run. Test E base is @600mg/week. Also running Prami@1, Nolva@20, [email protected](hopefully not permanent but I was running Trest and discontinued a week ago and I still need all 3. Joints and libido are awesome still so I know estro is likely still a little high. I know my body and I shouldn’t be struggling with this much lethargy and nausea after 2 weeks of Injectable Msten. Unless I’m missing something. Calling Doc to get labs done now.

dude, you just exposed the issue..imo its the prami... take it out and see if you feel normal.. at 1 mg per day I was seeing **** and talking to thin air. look up the side effects of prami and see if they don't all fall in line with your issues.

 

[Matthersby]

I did a bit of googling. Prami, definitely in some, can cause lethargy and nausea. I took higher doses of Msten orally than I am taking now and never lost my appetite or had to take a nap in my car at work from lethargy. Thanks for all the great advice, guys. I’m gonna discontinue Prami for a few days and if I absolutely have to take it, maybe only at bedtime.

 

[nubioso]

Yeah, prami should really only be needed for something like a heavy tren cycle.

I take a similar medication for bipolar disorder, so if you are not bipolar and don't have high prolactin, I could see it potentially messing with you in a negative way.

 

[Matthersby]

Yeah, prami should really only be needed for something like a heavy tren cycle.

I take a similar medication for bipolar disorder, so if you are not bipolar and don't have high prolactin, I could see it potentially messing with you in a negative way.

I was using Trestolone which, for me, it’s damn near impossible to reign in the gyno on. I’ll throw everything possible at it usually. However, adding a DHT and discontinuing the Trest,, I don’t need it anymore after a long week of using it feeling awful...

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

if you have to, keep it at .5 EoD but I don't think you should use it unless estrogen gets out of control. I do recommend something like prolactrone or inhibit-p while doing tren like substances, which if estrogen is in check should be enough in sane dosing scheduals.

 

[brofessorx]

Estrogen and prolactin have an inverse relationship. If one is increased, the other goes down.

 

[Matthersby]

Estrogen and prolactin have an inverse relationship. If one is increased, the other goes down.

So, Labs then. Because I can throw all the Letro and Nolvadex/Ralox at it when I’m on Trest, to no avail. So I then resort to a dopamine agonist.

 

[Matthersby]

if you have to, keep it at .5 EoD but I don't think you should use it unless estrogen gets out of control. I do recommend something like prolactrone or inhibit-p while doing tren like substances, which if estrogen is in check should be enough in sane dosing scheduals.

Totally agree, I ran Trestolone a good part of 2016 and only needed InhibitP and sometimes ran a DHT and gyno would subside. Wasn’t the case this time. This shyt was ruthless on this run. Not sure I want to toss the remaining 9 vials of Trest though...

 

[brofessorx]

Should also note, if one decreases the other goes up.

And don’t forget, prolactin and progesterone are two different hormones.

All androgens have the potential to bind with the progestin receptor

 

[Matthersby]

For what it’s worth, 3 weeks today on 15mg injectable Methylstenbolone daily and 8 weeks into Test E @600/week. Liver is doing great on NAC/MilkThistle only.

I’ve been a little dehydrated lately(long weekend in 100 degree heat in Phoenix....)

...

 

[cody199477]

I did a bit of googling. Prami, definitely in some, can cause lethargy and nausea. I took higher doses of Msten orally than I am taking now and never lost my appetite or had to take a nap in my car at work from lethargy. Thanks for all the great advice, guys. I’m gonna discontinue Prami for a few days and if I absolutely have to take it, maybe only at bedtime.

Prami definitely will cause nausea and will make you tired but ironically you’ll be tossing and turning all night. Have to slowly up the dose. I started off taking .25 for a week and a half then upped to .5. Once your body gets used to it you won’t get any of the nausea but it will still make you tired. I usually take it at work and down it with an energy drink to avoid the constant yawning and tiredness

 

[Matthersby]

Dude, it was ruthless. I can handle lethargy on orals, but I was literally dosing 1mg in the a.m right outta the gates.. And was struggling all day long at work, and appetite went from ravenous to nauseated all day.

 

[cody199477]

Dude, it was ruthless. I can handle lethargy on orals, but I was literally dosing 1mg in the a.m right outta the gates.. And was struggling all day long at work, and appetite went from ravenous to nauseated all day.

I’ve experienced that with just .5. If you drink coffee take it with that. I would do a week of .25 then up it to .5. Are you lactating?

 

[Georgiepecker]

Why don’t you stick to: Common orals
And Test

And then Tren,

until more research comes out

 

[Matthersby]

I’ve experienced that with just .5. If you drink coffee take it with that. I would do a week of .25 then up it to .5. Are you lactating?

I went and got Zofran today from the Doctor, it took 5 days for that nausea to clear. And the lethargy, for me, no amount of coffee or energy drinks were going to help that much. I aromatize heavily 300mg Test or higher, but with my experience with Trestolone, there’s no form of gyno I can’t tackle. So, no lactating, but I honestly thought I was headed that direction, in which case, I’d just crush my estrogen if I had to.

 

[cody199477]

I went and got Zofran today from the Doctor, it took 5 days for that nausea to clear. And the lethargy, for me, no amount of coffee or energy drinks were going to help that much. I aromatize heavily 300mg Test or higher, but with my experience with Trestolone, there’s no form of gyno I can’t tackle. So, no lactating, but I honestly thought I was headed that direction, in which case, I’d just crush my estrogen if I had to.

Was it your first time taking prami? 5 days is ridiculously long?

 

[Matthersby]

Why don’t you stick to: Common orals
And Test

And then Tren,

until more research comes out

I was headed that direction. And then I gave Trest a try and the stuff was incredible. And now I’m convinced I’m going to miss out on great stuff if I go back to the typical basic AAS.

But, alas, I’m getting too old to be guinea pigging all these new products.

 

[cody199477]

I was headed that direction. And then I gave Trest a try and the stuff was incredible. And now I’m convinced I’m going to miss out on great stuff if I go back to the typical basic AAS.

But, alas, I’m getting too old to be guinea pigging all these new products.

What Was trest like?

 

[Bintherduntht]

This is fukkin stupid.

Orals are orals for a reason.
Guys try to complicate shet!

You can drink injectable dbol... Why the heck inject it. There are better injectables like Test, Deca, Tren

 

[Bintherduntht]

I've run a few different brands of liquid orals dbol,winny,drol,and tbol. The brands I tried are all solid brands but imo tabs are far better result wise. Imo all these mom and pop ugls that pop up every second of the day started making these liquid orals cause it's easy to brew and I'm sure majority of these guys brewing claiming their a lab don't have the funds for a pill press. I sent 2 top ugls liquid dbol into lab max for testing neither came well. Another thing is with tabs I can spread the my dosing out to keep blood levels as even as possible

I don't like the liquid orals you can see the powder separate from the liquid and I know some of its getting wasted.

No, it doesn't "work faster"

It's just marketing

 

[Matthersby]

What Was trest like?

Somewhere between NPP and dbol, and the well-being on it is better than both. Serious anabolic properties. I cruised on it here and there with no test and felt amazing. It’s the most versatile drug I’ve ever used. The estrogen is practically unmanageable though.

 

[Matthersby]

This is fukkin stupid.

Orals are orals for a reason.
Guys try to complicate shet!

You can drink injectable dbol... Why the heck inject it. There are better injectables like Test, Deca, Tren

Respectfully, disagreed. They are orals because that’s what they’ve always been. Just like dogs have always been our pets and we eat cows and chickens, we save the dolphins but kill the tuna by the thousands. But imagine if we decided not to let that influence our thinking? Things might be different. 3 weeks into an Msten run @15mg/day with labs like this^ and effects consistent with oral @20mg/day, I know I am rethinking using some orals in the future at this point. However, some cheaper and less toxic orals I don’t see the point in going this route with them.

 

[Matthersby]

Was it your first time taking prami? 5 days is ridiculously long?

It actually was. I’ve kept it on hand for NPP and oral Tren, as well as Trest. But if I drop my test lower, I’ve only needed p5p/L-dopa alongside them. With strong AI.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Somewhere between NPP and dbol, and the well-being on it is better than both. Serious anabolic properties. I cruised on it here and there with no test and felt amazing. It’s the most versatile drug I’ve ever used. The estrogen is practically unmanageable though.

What dosage are you running the trest for your estrogen to skyrocket like that?

 

[Hyde]

Respectfully, disagreed. They are orals because that’s what they’ve always been. Just like dogs have always been our pets and we eat cows and chickens, we save the dolphins but kill the tuna by the thousands. But imagine if we decided not to let that influence our thinking? Things might be different. 3 weeks into an Msten run @15mg/day with labs like this^ and effects consistent with oral @20mg/day, I know I am rethinking using some orals in the future at this point. However, some cheaper and less toxic orals I don’t see the point in going this route with them.

You’re operating under the assumption that this is really 15mg Msten and what you had orally was really 20mg Msten. But we all know we can never know without labs on the gear, which isn’t happening. Nevermind differences in your current state of health overall internally vs then.

The fact you’re tolerating this much better now does not override the science that all of the compound is still getting metabolized by the liver eventually. I’m sure you’ll keep doing what’s working fine for you, but just sayin’.

Also, I start Prami at 0.1 man. Jump up too fast, it will flat put me on my ass. Ruined my Easter a few years ago, sick as a dog lol.

 

[Matthersby]

You’re operating under the assumption that this is really 15mg Msten and what you had orally was really 20mg Msten. But we all know we can never know without labs on the gear, which isn’t happening. Nevermind differences in your current state of health overall internally vs then.

The fact you’re tolerating this much better now does not override the science that all of the compound is still getting metabolized by the liver eventually. I’m sure you’ll keep doing what’s working fine for you, but just sayin’.

Also, I start Prami at 0.1 man. Jump up too fast, it will flat put me on my ass. Ruined my Easter a few years ago, sick as a dog lol.

Absolutely. Big assumptions here on my part. Maybe I’m too trusting, but I will always get cialis and Letro first from a new source, and if these are on point via noticeable effects, I’ll usually trust everything else from them. I can tell the difference between legit 30mg cialis vs underdosed within 3 hours. If they sell liquid caber for under $60, I usually won’t even use them at all. Ya, I had no idea Prami would put me on my a$$ like that.

 

[Matthersby]

What dosage are you running the trest for your estrogen to skyrocket like that?

We discussed this on your other thread. I had used over a year worth of Trest Ace from an old source in 2016 that I thought I was running 50/day. As I used my new sources in March 2018, I found 25mg/day was the absolute max I could use with this ugl/rc. Typical 50mg eod dosing of Ace.

 

[Hyde]

Prami is the worst. But it does work in a pinch if you can’t get Caber tabs.