Improving running: Steady state or walk/run?

[Kaprice]

Actually yes-I always differentiate my workouts for all of my athletes.
Even those who start unable to complete a mile benefit from intense (80%-90%) intervals.
You are moving-that is a great start.
You came into this thread wanting advice on how to run faster and I gave it to you. No matter how many downloads your app has had, that doesn't change the fact that mixing in some interval work (true intervals) is the surest way to improve performance

Much appreciated. Thanks for sticking with me.

 

[sammpedd88]

Ok smart asses...."easy or hard" was a bad choice of words. How about the difficulty level can be adjusted to your ability, meaning a new runner can have a longer rest period than someone that is in better shape. As the person's fitness level increases, your rest periods decrease until you can continuously run without rest periods. I've been using interval training for years. I'm 44 years old, a veteran, 21 year of law enforcement and 14 years of SWAT and still going.

 

[CatSnake]

I just got an app called Couch to 5K, which helps you prepare to run a 5K even if you're totally out of shape. It's a 9 week program.

It relies heavily on intervals -- walking and running. It increases the run times and decreases the walk times as the program progresses.

Has that been proven to be the best for improving your endurance and speed? Or is it just a way to make running accessible when you're out of shape?

The reason I ask is because i DO have the ability to jog steadily for 5K. But only at a very slow pace. I'm wondering if I should continue to do that and focus on improving my speed each run or if the interval (via the app) is actually more effective.

if you get the chance, check out some of Joel Jamieson's writing. he largely writes about MMA conditioning, but I've found his writing to be pretty enlightening, as far as steady-state vs HIIT:

"First, there are specific adaptations to the heart itself that are different between lower and higher intensity methods. Lower intensity methods done for longer periods of time, such as LSD type training, produces an enlargement of the left ventricle of the heart. This makes it possible for the heart to pump out more blood with each beat and thus it doesn’t have to work as hard to deliver blood and oxygen to the working muscles. This adaptation is known as eccentric cardiac hypertrophy.

Higher intensity methods, on the other hand, work to strengthen the muscle fibers of the heart and cause its walls to thicken as a result. This adaptation is referred to as concentric cardiac hypertrophy and it too helps the heart pump more blood and oxygen with each beat, but in a different way than the eccentric hypertrophy. Each of these adaptations works to improve your aerobic fitness, and both are important, but it’s important to understand that they differ in their effects on conditioning.

The lower intensity methods cause your heart to have to work less hard to deliver the same amount of blood and are thus well suited towards aerobic endurance. This also means your heart rate will stay lower as you exercise at a wide range of intensities and thus you can maintain them for longer. Higher intensity methods, by contrast, are better suited to helping your heart continue to pump more blood and oxygen at higher heart rates and thus enable you to maintain very high rates for longer before you become ultimately become fatigued and gas out."

http://www.8weeksout.com/2010/11/06/putting-an-end-to-the-lsd-vs-hiit-debate/

 

[Kaprice]

The lower intensity methods cause your heart to have to work less hard to deliver the same amount of blood and are thus well suited towards aerobic endurance. This also means your heart rate will stay lower as you exercise at a wide range of intensities and thus you can maintain them for longer. Higher intensity methods, by contrast, are better suited to helping your heart continue to pump more blood and oxygen at higher heart rates and thus enable you to maintain very high rates for longer before you become ultimately become fatigued and gas out."

http://www.8weeksout.com/2010/11/06/putting-an-end-to-the-lsd-vs-hiit-debate/

Interesting. Makes sense. Do you think intense weight lifting that really gets your heart pounding would cover the higher intensity portion of the training?

I alternate lifting and running so that would be ideal. I tend to pull hamstrings and/or calf muscles every time I sprint.

 

[CatSnake]

Interesting. Makes sense. Do you think intense weight lifting that really gets your heart pounding would cover the higher intensity portion of the training?

I alternate lifting and running so that would be ideal. I tend to pull hamstrings and/or calf muscles every time I sprint.

I suspect so.

when I was younger, I would usually lift 2-3 days a week, and run 2-3 days a week (alternating between the 2). I had a resting HR in the low 40's. BP was low, too.

however, I was only making slow gains in both strength and endurance.... prioritizing one or the other would have been more significant, obviously. now my knees suck and I don't run much....

 

[scherbs]

Interesting. Makes sense. Do you think intense weight lifting that really gets your heart pounding would cover the higher intensity portion of the training?

I alternate lifting and running so that would be ideal. I tend to pull hamstrings and/or calf muscles every time I sprint.

To get the metabolic adaptations spoken of above, lifting will not get your Heart rate high enough.

You don't need to 'sprint' per se, but you gotta get to 80-90%

 

[Kaprice]

To get the metabolic adaptations spoken of above, lifting will not get your Heart rate high enough.

You don't need to 'sprint' per se, but you gotta get to 80-90%

I'm definitely at 80-90% when I lift. But then, I'm probably 70% just tying my shoes! (naw, not quite THAT bad.)

 

[brutus1]

Not sure where you got that. I've been running (slowly) for about 2 miles 3 days a week. In my first post, I said I was trying to get ready for a 5K and wanted to know if steady state or alternating fast and slow is better.

The whole argument has not been about whether to run or not but HOW to build up speed and endurance.
Somehow it devolved into "just run more" and/or "just run as fast as you can" and I pushed back on the rationale for such advice.

Ok. If you can complete a 5k distance and if your level of effort is low ie. able to speak in mostly complete sentences while running, you don't need to walk. You could substitute running slower than your normal pace where the couch to 5k program calls for walking and run slightly faster than your normal pace where the program says to run.

The 5k is considered a short enough distance where the VO2 max is still fairly important, so hard interval runs do help. But a beginning runner should make at least fairly decent gains in VO2 max just by running slowly and red zone training at this stage is not that important especially for those who are out of shape.

 

[brutus1]

Actually yes-I always differentiate my workouts for all of my athletes.
Even those who start unable to complete a mile benefit from intense (80%-90%) intervals.
You are moving-that is a great start.
........

What sort of intervals do you have beginners run?

 

[SPC1124]

Get on a HIIT (high intensity interval training) program to dump some fat. MAXWORKOUT is a good plan. Walk 3 miles a day for 2 weeks then 5 Miles a day for 2 weeks. Then continue your 5 Miles a day slipping in a 100 yard jog. Add in 100 yards every day while still keeping your 5 mile limit toll you’re at 5 Miles a dat at a 12 min/mile pace.

Then research TrainingPeaks for some real training. A Garmin 920XT will give you the ability to capture your data.

I do 6 Marathons a year and a half-marathon every month. I’ll be running Boston April 16th.

 

[fnordguy]

Btw if you run you need to read, "Dead Doctor's Don't Lie" by Dr. Joel Wallach. Running is horrible exercise unless you supplement with all the essential minerals and vitamins.

The average couch potato has a life expectancy of 78 while the professional athlete around 56. It's all about the science of sweat - you don't just sweat out salt and water, it's a soup of minerals and if you don't replace them, your organs will fail.

 

[Kaprice]

Btw if you run you need to read, "Dead Doctor's Don't Lie" by Dr. Joel Wallach. Running is horrible exercise unless you supplement with all the essential minerals and vitamins.

The average couch potato has a life expectancy of 78 while the professional athlete around 56. It's all about the science of sweat - you don't just sweat out salt and water, it's a soup of minerals and if you don't replace them, your organs will fail.

Wouldn't that be true of all intense exercise? I'll often walk away from a weight lifting session far sweatier than when I run. And even sweatier than that after something like racquetball.

Why would Dr. Wallach blame only running?

 

[fnordguy]

He blames anything that makes you sweat. In the book he talks about a MD friend of his that ignored his advice and died in his early 50's while running. He died from a simple selenium deficiency.

 

[rtmilburn]

Btw if you run you need to read, "Dead Doctor's Don't Lie" by Dr. Joel Wallach. Running is horrible exercise unless you supplement with all the essential minerals and vitamins.

The average couch potato has a life expectancy of 78 while the professional athlete around 56. It's all about the science of sweat - you don't just sweat out salt and water, it's a soup of minerals and if you don't replace them, your organs will fail.

This is without a doubt the dumbest thing I have ever read, in my whole life!!!!! It's amazing how you were the the superior swimmer, in your dad's nuts, and yet you are this dumb. Please don't make your father's mistake and use a condom.

 

[Basemetal]

I would say steady state for sure - and also - I highly recommend trying out 5 different types of brands of shoes.

Shoes make SUCH a huge difference. The higher cushioning the better if you ask me

This is definitely true. Shoes make a huge difference.

Learned this after beating the **** out of my knee with basic Nikes, etc... leading to meniscus surgery. Switched to Brooks after healing and can run a 5k easily as a warm up.

As a lot of people are saying, push yourself every time (even if going slow and steady at first), beat your times weekly and you'll get there. I sucked at running, now I'm overly addicted and my ability to perform any cardio is on point.

Good luck and you got this!