IGF-1 for Injuries and Surgery

bigrick345

New member
I have been pm'ing people and talking to them a lot about this topic, and have gotten a few different responses. I am debating between the use of Oratropin or injectible LR3 IGF-1. I really don't mind injecting and have done a ton of research about how to use either. Heres some background:

About 6-8 weeks ago iI suffered from 2 anterior shoulder dislocations. The doctors were baffled as to why i was experiencing little to no pain after the injuries, that is until they saw the MRI w/ Arthogram. I saw the Orthopedic surgeon today and got some very bad news. The Labrum was torn completely off, so it was explained to me. I was told that there is a legitimate possibility that I will be unable play sports or train in MMA ever again. Surgery should be within 2 weeks. This explains why i was feeling virtually NO PAIN after the dislocations, apparently that since the labrum is completely detached, there is no pain or little pain (my attempt to phrase what the doctor is saying). He referred to case as "one of the worse shoulder injuries" he has seen. Apparenty there is a chance I can get to 100% in the future, but they are unsure, and will be able to know after the operation.

I have talked to several people about using LR3 IGF-1 for recovery. 2 people I have talked to have used it to recover from serious injuries. One injected 40 mcg ED into the injured area for 18-25 days, and recovered from his injury in about a 5th of the time that was projected. Others (not affiliated to IBE) have told me that although Oratropin is inferior to the injectable IGF-1, it may be superior to it in terms of healing capacity.

I'm pretty pissed about the whole situation, i would be happy if I can at least continue Boxing or Muay Thai, although BJJ and wrestling are probably out of the question. I really hope I can continue to lift as well. I trust the surgeon and he is one of the best in my area, so hopefully hbe can get me back as close as possible to 100%.

So, what are the suggestions? I have had a suggestion for Both Oratropin and another for injectable IGF-1.

Thank you everyone for your help,
 
bigrick345 said:
I have been pm'ing people and talking to them a lot about this topic, and have gotten a few different responses. I am debating between the use of Oratropin or injectible LR3 IGF-1. I really don't mind injecting and have done a ton of research about how to use either. Heres some background:

About 6-8 weeks ago iI suffered from 2 anterior shoulder dislocations. The doctors were baffled as to why i was experiencing little to no pain after the injuries, that is until they saw the MRI w/ Arthogram. I saw the Orthopedic surgeon today and got some very bad news. The Labrum was torn completely off, so it was explained to me. I was told that there is a legitimate possibility that I will be unable play sports or train in MMA ever again. Surgery should be within 2 weeks. This explains why i was feeling virtually NO PAIN after the dislocations, apparently that since the labrum is completely detached, there is no pain or little pain (my attempt to phrase what the doctor is saying). He referred to case as "one of the worse shoulder injuries" he has seen. Apparenty there is a chance I can get to 100% in the future, but they are unsure, and will be able to know after the operation.

I have talked to several people about using LR3 IGF-1 for recovery. 2 people I have talked to have used it to recover from serious injuries. One injected 40 mcg ED into the injured area for 18-25 days, and recovered from his injury in about a 5th of the time that was projected. Others (not affiliated to IBE) have told me that although Oratropin is inferior to the injectable IGF-1, it may be superior to it in terms of healing capacity.

I'm pretty pissed about the whole situation, i would be happy if I can at least continue Boxing or Muay Thai, although BJJ and wrestling are probably out of the question. I really hope I can continue to lift as well. I trust the surgeon and he is one of the best in my area, so hopefully hbe can get me back as close as possible to 100%.

So, what are the suggestions? I have had a suggestion for Both Oratropin and another for injectable IGF-1.

Thank you everyone for your help,
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I think that Oratrophin actually works better for healing. Grunt think it is because of the cell-mediated release gets it where it needs to be better. Injectable used properly is less likely to grow the gut, but you are talking best for healing. You also want HGH raised. HGH works with Igf-1 with many cofactors for healing. IGF-1 will actually lower HGH unless you use a bosster. For surgery and money is no object then i think I would use Orathrophin and Hexatrophin both. I have used Pgh-T very successfully for HGH booster and it is much cheaper. I think I woIgf-1 does the most good if you get it in as soon as injury occures or surgery. With the long life of Oratrophin you could actually take before surgery.

Here is a much of threads on this subject. i may have given you some these already looking back at my PMs.

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http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/53121-hgh-torn-tendon.html

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http://anabolicminds.com/forum/ibe-nutrition/57521-most-amazing-thing.html

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Good luck.
 
Thanks, i have done quite a bit of research on it. The reason i keep asking is because i trust the injectible form more than Oratropin because of some of the reviews Ora has gotten. A person i talked to explained this to me, and after looking it up i saw that some boards call it an enormous scam while others call it one of the best drugs to come out recently. I guess it is more about me being insecure about Ora's benefits. I have looked into a lot of different HGH boosters, don't know which is best but i'm sure i will figure it out if i keep digging,

Thanks again
 
I am unable to find whether the labrum is ligament or tendon. This is important, as IGF-1 does not heal ligament although it does heal bone and the injury is at the junction of bone and whatever the labrum is made of.

Anyway, I feel you would be better off with oratropin than injectable, but if you can find a way to spend a couple hundred bucks, get yourself some GH and take it at 5iu ED for the first 20 days after the surgery, on top of the Oratropin.

If that doesn't help, nothing will.
 
Grunt76 said:
I am unable to find whether the labrum is ligament or tendon. This is important, as IGF-1 does not heal ligament although it does heal bone and the injury is at the junction of bone and whatever the labrum is made of.

Anyway, I feel you would be better off with oratropin than injectable, but if you can find a way to spend a couple hundred bucks, get yourself some GH and take it at 5iu ED for the first 20 days after the surgery, on top of the Oratropin.

If that doesn't help, nothing will.
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I can't find it either. It is however a piece of cartilage.

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"Labrum: In medicine, a ring of fibrocartilage (fibrous cartilage) around the edge of the articular (joint) surface of a bone. The term labrum is used in anatomy to designate a lip, edge, or brim. Plural: labra.

The glenoid labrum is a ring of fibrocartilage that runs around the cavity of the scapula (wingbone) in which the head of the humerus (the bone in the upper arm) fits. The labrum deepens this cavity (the glenoid cavity) and effectively increases the surface of the shoulder joint."

Does that help?
 
Tendon is a generic term given to the connective tissue used to connect muscle to bone.
Ligament is a generic term given to the connective tissue used to connect bone to bone.

Both are from the same class of connective tissue, dense regular connective tissue. It is a fibrous tissue type.

The labrum is not in this class of connective tissue. It is a cartilaginous connective tissue type.
Hope this helps.
 
Uh, right I forgot to add "or cartilage" which should have been the #1 guess. So anyway IGF-1 is good at healing cartilage, provided it can get to it.
 
gh helps my patellar tendonitis much more than igf.

igf did help alot with a nagging shoulder seperation though. your best bet is a little of both. some would saya low dose of test would help potentiate them (100-200mg a week)
 
NattyNow said:
gh helps my patellar tendonitis much more than igf.

igf did help alot with a nagging shoulder seperation though. your best bet is a little of both. some would saya low dose of test would help potentiate them (100-200mg a week)
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It is actually the estrogen produce from testosterone that is the the cofactor with HGH and IGF-1. Like always testosterone helps build and repair muscles.
 
bigrick345 said:
That makes sense, explaining why people argue against using SERM's on cycle, correct?
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Basically true. Estrogen is actually anabolic. The problem is not letting it get too high and getting gyno. If too low, then HDL and white blood cell counts drop. Also joints will start having problems.
 
i have gotten the best results using raloxifene. it is a synthetic estrogen that is used to treat bone loss. it also convieniently prevents gyno extremely well. stay away from letro or high doses of armidex.
 
Surgery is tomorrow. Thanks for all the help. I will keep those interested posted on the healing process. I'm told that normally people take 3- months to get close to 100%, hopefully it will be less than that for me.
 
bigrick345 said:
Surgery is tomorrow. Thanks for all the help. I will keep those interested posted on the healing process. I'm told that normally people take 3- months to get close to 100%, hopefully it will be less than that for me.
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I wish you Good luck and a speeding recovery.
 
typing w 1 hand, sorry for grammar

tear was worse than anticipated. doc repaired bankhart lesion and slap tear. he says he wad able o repair both perfectly. took first dose ora 3-4 hours post surgery (earliest possible) on a very dry mouth. i let it sit in my right cheek for 10 min. will take gaba tonight. i plan on using oratropin ed for first week then eod for next 2, both morning on empty stomach. i am also using universal animal flex, flax, multi. its tough to tell if ora is working because i have a headache anyways. did i use it correctly? advice? thanks?

i think oratropin may work better, the labrum is very deep in the shoulder (where the socket is), would the injectible igf-1 reach it that well?
 
the inj igf should help even if it is not right at the site.

when i broke my toe i shot the stuff right in there. hurt like a mother! it did heal fast tho
 
NattyNow said:
the inj igf should help even if it is not right at the site.

when i broke my toe i shot the stuff right in there. hurt like a mother! it did heal fast tho
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thanks hopefully the oratropin works as well. I was skeptical of it due to some of the negative feedback it has gotten in the past, but i have confidence in it.
 
bigrick345 said:
typing w 1 hand, sorry for grammar

tear was worse than anticipated. doc repaired bankhart lesion and slap tear. he says he wad able o repair both perfectly. took first dose ora 3-4 hours post surgery (earliest possible) on a very dry mouth. i let it sit in my right cheek for 10 min. will take gaba tonight. i plan on using oratropin ed for first week then eod for next 2, both morning on empty stomach. i am also using universal animal flex, flax, multi. its tough to tell if ora is working because i have a headache anyways. did i use it correctly? advice? thanks?

i think oratropin may work better, the labrum is very deep in the shoulder (where the socket is), would the injectible igf-1 reach it that well?
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Usually on both lower cheeks. I think you probably did fine.

Cissus would be a good addition.

I would have gone for a stronger HGH booster than GABA, but you can go for twice a day. It works best an hour before bed.

PGH-T or Hexatrophin.

Good luck
 
Werewolf said:
Usually on both lower cheeks. I think you probably did fine.

Cissus would be a good addition.

I would have gone for a stronger HGH booster than GABA, but you can go for twice a day. It works best an hour before bed.

PGH-T or Hexatrophin.

Good luck
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i still , i am just not sure if i want to pay for the hexatropin. i would rather get another kit of ora. i still may get hexatropin
 
Werewolf said:
I assume you doing about 5 grams of GABA.
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5g before bed. I stopped the painkillers today as well. pain is not bad enough to need them. hopefully the oratropin is working, dosing is ed for 5-7 days, then eod. like i said it is hard to get the ora in the left cheek as well because i can only lay on my right side. typing with 1 hand is a real pain
 
bigrick345 said:
5g before bed. I stopped the painkillers today as well. pain is not bad enough to need them. hopefully the oratropin is working, dosing is ed for 5-7 days, then eod. like i said it is hard to get the ora in the left cheek as well because i can only lay on my right side. typing with 1 hand is a real pain
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Are you taking anything to reduce swelling?
You may want to be taking Ibuprofin to reduce swelling which will aid in healing. Possibly as high as 800 mg.

At some point you will want to move out to every 72 to 96 hrs for Oratrophin. You can go a max of about 40 days at EOD before you get no benefit, but you are not gaining much from that frequency of dosing. IGF-1 binds to the receptor for 72 hrs. IGF-1 is going to do the most good in speeding healing in the beginning which is the reason for ED at first, but is wastefull.
 
Werewolf said:
Are you taking anything to reduce swelling?
You may want to be taking Ibuprofin to reduce swelling which will aid in healing. Possibly as high as 800 mg.

At some point you will want to move out to every 72 to 96 hrs for Oratrophin. You can go a max of about 40 days at EOD before you get no benefit, but you are not gaining much from that frequency of dosing. IGF-1 binds to the receptor for 72 hrs. IGF-1 is going to do the most good in speeding healing in the beginning which is the reason for ED at first, but is wastefull.
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thank . yes i take ibuprofen daily, 3-4 caps advil (not sure what dose) along with ice last 2 days. also asprin to thin the blood. will switch to eod if it is more cost effective, however was under the impression that ed at first was better
 
bigrick345 said:
thank . yes i take ibuprofen daily, 3-4 caps advil (not sure what dose) along with ice last 2 days. also asprin to thin the blood. will switch to eod if it is more cost effective, however was under the impression that ed at first was better
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Taking both aspirin and ibuprofen at the same time is a bad idea. They don't get along well, bad mix. Ibupofen also thins blood so aspirin is unnecessary. Standard Ibuprofen is 200 mgs. you can go to 4x or prescription strength, but it puts a load on your liver so is not recommended for long periods of time.

No, at first stay with everyday. 5 to 7 days is fine. The most benefit is occuring in those days so a little waste pays off the most. It guarantees all receptors are full. It is after that that you may want to move out every 72 to 96 hrs. Remember that Oratrophin is still present for 48 hrs.
 
Werewolf said:
Taking both aspirin and ibuprofen at the same time is a bad idea. They don't get along well, bad mix. Ibupofen also thins blood so aspirin is unnecessary. Standard Ibuprofen is 200 mgs. you can go to 4x or prescription strength, but it puts a load on your liver so is not recommended for long periods of time.

No, at first stay with everyday. 5 to 7 days is fine. The most benefit is occuring in those days so a little waste pays off the most. It guarantees all receptors are full. It is after that that you may want to move out every 72 to 96 hrs. Remember that Oratrophin is still present for 48 hrs.
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I fully agree: it is vital that you get as much IGF-1 into you as possible during the first few days.

You are doing well, this will heal nicely, I'm sure.
 
After the 5th dose injury appears to be healing well. I am retaining an incredible amount of water for some reason, it feels like my bf% has gone up a lot in just 5 days. I feel not that much pain in the shoulder actually, and as if in less than a week i could be ready to get rid of the sling, but that is the doctors call and post op is not until July 19, and people are usually in a sling for 4-6 weeks.
 
bigrick345 said:
After the 5th dose injury appears to be healing well. I am retaining an incredible amount of water for some reason, it feels like my bf% has gone up a lot in just 5 days. I feel not that much pain in the shoulder actually, and as if in less than a week i could be ready to get rid of the sling, but that is the doctors call and post op is not until July 19, and people are usually in a sling for 4-6 weeks.
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I have no idea why you are retaining water. Eating a lot of salt? Try drinking extra water, it works like a natural diuretic.

Glad to hear things are going well. I'm afraid at some point you may have to accellerate rehab faster than the doctor says, but now is probably not that time! Take it very very easy when you do.

Good luck!
 
bigrick345 said:
thank . yes i take ibuprofen daily, 3-4 caps advil (not sure what dose) along with ice last 2 days. also asprin to thin the blood. will switch to eod if it is more cost effective, however was under the impression that ed at first was better
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Have you asked your doctor about taking either ibuprofen or asprin post-op? The reason I ask is that these thin your blood and inhibit clotting. You can bleed a lot internally for example from incisions and other stuff (like sutures) won't heal right. The reason people use tylenol post-op is it doesn't do this.

I have had many surgeries and I have always been told to stay away from ibuprofen and/or asprin pre and post op for these reasons. BTW I have also had a torn glenoid, torn proximal bicep tendon, torn labrum and torn rotator, all fixed same time.

One time long ago I had some low back work done (l4/5 laminectomy) and took ibuprofen before and after surgery, did not tell the doctor. Ended up with a hematoma the size of a football on my low back. That was all fluid bleeding into a pocket beneath the skin because the ibuprofen thinned my blood out and prevented clotting, so I just bled out into the skin. Nasty as hell but the body reabsorbed it in a few weeks.
 
jenab123 said:
Have you asked your doctor about taking either ibuprofen or asprin post-op? The reason I ask is that these thin your blood and inhibit clotting. You can bleed a lot internally for example from incisions and other stuff (like sutures) won't heal right. The reason people use tylenol post-op is it doesn't do this.

I have had many surgeries and I have always been told to stay away from ibuprofen and/or asprin pre and post op for these reasons. BTW I have also had a torn glenoid, torn proximal bicep tendon, torn labrum and torn rotator, all fixed same time.

One time long ago I had some low back work done (l4/5 laminectomy) and took ibuprofen before and after surgery, did not tell the doctor. Ended up with a hematoma the size of a football on my low back. That was all fluid bleeding into a pocket beneath the skin because the ibuprofen thinned my blood out and prevented clotting, so I just bled out into the skin. Nasty as hell but the body reabsorbed it in a few weeks.
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I was told to take asprin for precisely that reason. Took the bandages off today as well as instructed.

Wereworlf: I am drinking a lot of water because the Ora makes me very hungry and thirsty. It could be th Sesathin causing water retention. I am taking a high dose of that. I am not sure how to go about accelerating the PT, i will probably call my doctor when I feel ready.
 
bigrick345 said:
I was told to take asprin for precisely that reason. Took the bandages off today as well as instructed.

Wereworlf: I am drinking a lot of water because the Ora makes me very hungry and thirsty. It could be th Sesathin causing water retention. I am taking a high dose of that. I am not sure how to go about accelerating the PT, i will probably call my doctor when I feel ready.
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Yea, the PT part is very hard to figure out.

The IGF-1R3 actually converts blood sugar into repairs you want so it is (complex) carbs that your body is telling you to increase, not fat or protien.

I know about the thirst and hunger first hand right now since I dose after I get back from the gym which means 45 minutes ago tonight. I do half doses every 72 to 96 hrs while on cycle to protect my tendons and joints. If I get some new muscle too, great.

At my age healthy tendons and joints are more important to me.
 
Day 8:

Took it out of the sling and move it around. ROM is actually pretty high at 70% normal. Pain is very low as well, mild soreness, when i raise it above my head and try to rotate it as if i were going to work my rotator cuff. I would say that the Oratropin is without a doubt helping the healing. I feel ready to start pt and ditch the sling, something people usually do at 4-6 weeks post op.

Ora should last 12 more days. I'm gonna take 2-3 weeks off and use igf-1 again, unless that is too early? Next time for price reasons i may use an injectible form, and am looking at 3 or 4 different sites for the best price.

General rehab for a Slap tear and Bankhart lesion is 4-6 months, and I am shooting for 8-10 weeks, although I wont push it if it's not ready,

Too bad Ora isn't cheaper, it has done wonders for me in the 1st week. This is defintely not placebo, there is no way that someone coming off surgery on an extremely bad tear of the Labrum recover this much ROM and have this little pain 8 days post op without the aid something to accelerate healing,
 
bigrick345 said:
Day 8:

Took it out of the sling and move it around. ROM is actually pretty high at 70% normal. Pain is very low as well, mild soreness, when i raise it above my head and try to rotate it as if i were going to work my rotator cuff. I would say that the Oratropin is without a doubt helping the healing. I feel ready to start pt and ditch the sling, something people usually do at 4-6 weeks post op.

Ora should last 12 more days. I'm gonna take 2-3 weeks off and use igf-1 again, unless that is too early? Next time for price reasons i may use an injectible form, and am looking at 3 or 4 different sites for the best price.

General rehab for a Slap tear and Bankhart lesion is 4-6 months, and I am shooting for 8-10 weeks, although I wont push it if it's not ready,

Too bad Ora isn't cheaper, it has done wonders for me in the 1st week. This is defintely not placebo, there is no way that someone coming off surgery on an extremely bad tear of the Labrum recover this much ROM and have this little pain 8 days post op without the aid something to accelerate healing,
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Not that expensive when you use like I do. Half dose twice a week. I take a break at 7 or 8 weeks so we are talking over 4 months a box.

PGH-T and Oratrophin are a great combo. I actually have more friends on PGH-T right now. On a 5 on/ 2 off and skip the 5th week, you get about 6 weeks on a bottle of PGH-T.
 
kind of a weird question:
Could this cause gyno? Well, increase that is. I have had mild gyno (very dmall) that has gotten slightly bigger lately. Could have been due to some other factors, but have not used anything since superdrol which was 2 years ago. Any chance it could cause an increase in it? It seems extremely unlikely due to how little time i have been on it.

I want to use 40 mg Nolva for a few days but it would be counterproductive for the healing process.
 
bigrick345 said:
kind of a weird question:
Could this cause gyno? Well, increase that is. I have had mild gyno (very dmall) that has gotten slightly bigger lately. Could have been due to some other factors, but have not used anything since superdrol which was 2 years ago. Any chance it could cause an increase in it? It seems extremely unlikely due to how little time i have been on it.

I want to use 40 mg Nolva for a few days but it would be counterproductive for the healing process.
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I don't know of IGF-1 causing gyno. My guess is you you are carry a little more fat and maybe water. I think a run of Epistane could be in your future, but this is probably not a good time for it.
 
Day 18:

Saw the doctor for psot op. He didn't look at the arm. I am taking it safe and waiting till about day 25 to start PT, schedueled for next Friday. Arm feels fine, and I hope i didn't mes it up within the first 2 weeks post op, being that i took it out of the sling and moved it around a lot moe than i was told to. With that said I was told by a family friend that is a MD that it is pretty hard to rip out an anchor, and that when they put them in they usually yank pretty hard on the arm to make sure its in right. So hopefully It is healing right, there is a minute chance they will have to go back in and take off a piece of cartilage that may cause popping, they didn't do it the first time because it could have intervened with the injury healing correctly. Everything feels fine, a few minor aches and thats it. Last dose of Ora is this sunday. I'll take 2-3 weeks off and start Injecting LR3.

Should i do injections in areas other than the injured shoulder?

Thanks again for all the help, especially Werewolf and Grunt.
 
bigrick345 said:
Day 18:

Saw the doctor for psot op. He didn't look at the arm. I am taking it safe and waiting till about day 25 to start PT, schedueled for next Friday. Arm feels fine, and I hope i didn't mes it up within the first 2 weeks post op, being that i took it out of the sling and moved it around a lot moe than i was told to. With that said I was told by a family friend that is a MD that it is pretty hard to rip out an anchor, and that when they put them in they usually yank pretty hard on the arm to make sure its in right. So hopefully It is healing right, there is a minute chance they will have to go back in and take off a piece of cartilage that may cause popping, they didn't do it the first time because it could have intervened with the injury healing correctly. Everything feels fine, a few minor aches and thats it. Last dose of Ora is this sunday. I'll take 2-3 weeks off and start Injecting LR3.

Should i do injections in areas other than the injured shoulder?

Thanks again for all the help, especially Werewolf and Grunt.
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If you injecting, you want to inject has close injury as possible. Best place is probably upper bicept or tricept so IGF-1 must travel by injured area.
 
Day 26:

Started PT today. Therapist and doctor agree that, despite my disregard for the sling and protocol, my shoulder is healing well and faster than most. They hope to get me back in a total of 12 weeks,, whereas most are back to 100% in 4-6 months, 6 being more common. This is also intersting because my tear was worse than 80% of the tears most people suffer.

Received the IGF-1 today, 2 1 mg vials. I am going to reconstitute it son. Last dose of Ora was Sunday. I wanted to start the injections on Monday, if it is not too early. (I was doing Ora EOD for the 2 weeks prior to Sunday. I also have plenty of Bac water and 1cc slin syringes with 1/2 inch needles.
 
djl said:
Ever self-inject before?
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Going to have a friend do it. After i learn how to i will. I also read everything i could find on doing it.

Got two vials today. The place also gave me 2 vials of liquid. one with a red top and one with a white top. Neither are labeled so i am guessing that the white top is BW and the red top is AA, which is weird because they were only supposed to give AA, so i better find out what the other one is before i use it.

Edit: figured it all out.

Plan on injecting E3D into the shoulder. I need to take some time off before starting since the last Ora dose was last Sunday, a week ago.
 
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