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I want to join the darkside

The Express 42

The Express 42

Well-known member
I want to set up my first test cycle for this summer and I want to make sure I understand everything and proper doses and what not. I want to run test at 500mg for 12 weeks. What form of test would you recommend and how often should I be pinning? Should I utilize HCG on cycle? Thanks for any info, like I said still continuing to gather info
 
Pin twice a week. You can use either Cyp or Enanthate. If you decide to use HCG don't use it on cycle, blast it right before you start PCT.
 
Like in that two week period where the esters are still wearing off? Also as far as price so if a 250mg/ml bottle with 10ml is $30. For a 10 week cycle dosing 250mg twice a week, I am going to need 4 bottles correct? running me about $120?
 
Cooter Flap said:
Like in that two week period where the esters are still wearing off? Also as far as price so if a 250mg/ml bottle with 10ml is $30. For a 10 week cycle dosing 250mg twice a week, I am going to need 4 bottles correct? running me about $120?
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That's what I've always seen for HCG.

And that would just be 2 vials. 500mg/week would be 2ml a week, so one vial should last 5 weeks. You could get 3 vials and do 12-15 weeks if you wanted. 10 is okay too for a first cycle, a little short but will still be good. I didn't really start feeling good until week 5 on Test.
 
Appreciate the input, I was thinking about doing something like DMZ the first 5 weeks until it kicks in. Thoughts on cycle support? and I was going to run exemestane at 12.5 EOD throughout the 12 weeks. For actual test cycles I see a lot of guys doing the nolva/clomid combo. Would you suggest both?
 
Cooter Flap said:
Appreciate the input, I was thinking about doing something like DMZ the first 5 weeks until it kicks in. Thoughts on cycle support? and I was going to run exemestane at 12.5 EOD throughout the 12 weeks. For actual test cycles I see a lot of guys doing the nolva/clomid combo. Would you suggest both?
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CEL Cycle Assist while on the DMZ, or any other companies support. Olympus Labs or Sparta Nutrition. You can do both SERMs or just one, either way it'll be fine. Especially if you use HCG just one should be plenty.
 
That's how I did my current/first cycle! Dmz 30mgs every day for the first 4 weeks I used LgD too but dropped it after 3rd week . I've gained 21lbs so far and got another 4 weeks to go . Cel cycle assist and cel tudca daily . I used HCG starting at week 2 500/ week and my boys have stayed full so i plan on using it again . I'm doing both serms and used exemstane 12.5 eod definitely necessary I dropped it for about 3 weeks and got a lump under the right nipple Ralox and starting the AI again helped I don't feel it any more . Just letting T you know what I did incase it helps !
 
Alpha1agreda said:
That's how I did my current/first cycle! Dmz 30mgs every day for the first 4 weeks I used LgD too but dropped it after 3rd week . I've gained 21lbs so far and got another 4 weeks to go . Cel cycle assist and cel tudca daily . I used HCG starting at week 2 500/ week and my boys have stayed full so i plan on using it again . I'm doing both serms and used exemstane 12.5 eod definitely necessary I dropped it for about 3 weeks and got a lump under the right nipple Ralox and starting the AI again helped I don't feel it any more . Just letting T you know what I did incase it helps !
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Thank you good to hear how well it's going for you, where have you guys had the most success pinning? I've heard of guys having some neat debilitating swelling at times and that's probably my biggest concern with the cycle. That and proper use of HCG
 
Quads are my favorite. I've had 0 problems. Felt sore as hell the first 2 times but every time it gets smoother and smoother and 0 soreness at this point (2 months in) I tried the delt once and said fucc that lmao
 
Cooter Flap said:
I want to set up my first test cycle for this summer and I want to make sure I understand everything and proper doses and what not. I want to run test at 500mg for 12 weeks. What form of test would you recommend and how often should I be pinning? Should I utilize HCG on cycle? Thanks for any info, like I said still continuing to gather info
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Welcome to the dark side bro, you gonna love this cycle especially if it's your 1st run.test e for my first cycle and I can Tell you in 12 weeks at 500mg of test e was a life changer.
 
Sorry to jump in but what would the minimal dose (less than 500mg a week) be and it still be effective/produce decent results?
 
joemoney said:
Sorry to jump in but what would the minimal dose (less than 500mg a week) be and it still be effective/produce decent results?
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Prop: 350mg a week
Cypionate: 500mg a week
Anything less isn't worth your time imo
 
yates84 said:
Prop: 350mg a week
Cypionate: 500mg a week
Anything less isn't worth your time imo
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Even though it'd be the first time running anything, I always worry about the sides (heart and other serious things) hence why I ask about the lower dose lol
 
You guys are getting me excited lol so test E 250mg every Monday/Friday? Sound like a good split? Also what gauge syringe are we talkin, and length. And can I keep the clomid at 50/50/25/25 with maybe an extra week of 25? Because I used clomid for the first time on my last cycle and I was having damn near debilitating headaches at 50mg
 
23 gauge 1" pins work great for me. I just pin e3d to make it easy. Clomid is cool at 50/50/25/25 just don't start pct until 2 weeks after your last pin.
 
Thanks everyone. So this still has some time to improve but here's what it may look like.

Week 1-12: Test E 500mg
Week 1-5: DMZ 40mg, Tudca
Week 10-14: HCG 500mg, exemestane 12.5mg EOD
Week 15-20: clomid 50/50/25/25/25, CEL M-Test, Anabeta Elite

I have heard of guys running test P during the two weeks waiting for the test E to wear off. Thoughts on that? I will also have exemestane on hand earlier if needed.
 
I basically am doing the same program which started today except kicking it off with Msten and using Arimidex on cycle. Also I plan on staying on HCG 500 iu/week all cycle. Can someone shed some light on why or why not this protocol would be problematic. I feel like everyone has a different way of running HCG.
 
BigB85 said:
I basically am doing the same program which started today except kicking it off with Msten and using Arimidex on cycle. Also I plan on staying on HCG 500 iu/week all cycle. Can someone shed some light on why or why not this protocol would be problematic. I feel like everyone has a different way of running HCG.
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Feel the same way here about everyone having a different protocol but I've used HCG all cycle and my boys are full so I'd rather do that again. I think people would rather blast it right before pct because they don't want to de synthesize their body from it being on so long
 
I start same cycle in Feb but running Tbol for my kickstarter not sure how i am dosing it yet i have 50 50mg caps
 
Cooter Flap said:
Thank you good to hear how well it's going for you, where have you guys had the most success pinning? I've heard of guys having some neat debilitating swelling at times and that's probably my biggest concern with the cycle. That and proper use of HCG
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I'd pin glutes and delts and quads as a last resort. Iv been pinning grams a week for years and take it from me that you want to utilize your glutes.
 
A few thoughts;
- exemestane, go easy. Probably won't need it eod. **** is strong. Only on test, so e3d for a week, then a week off, and so on would probably be fine. Ppl block too much estro these days. Estro is Needed for recovery, circulatory health, etc
-hcg, the reason you hear everyone is doing different is bc everyone's body is different. If you are just trying to be safe, use it last two weeks of cycle and keep using til it's gone, or 6 wks from last pin. And you May want to add in exemestane if you get moody and **** (estro going up). If not, your good. And personally hcg is all I've ever needed for pct, even after pretty rough cycles. Worst was hcg &clomid and clomid was short lived.
- test &pct- just remember that it will take probably 6 weeks for All off the test to get out of your system. 2 weeks after your still "on" so do pct as you actually Feel your body getting ****ty/ strength going to crap, etc. HCG works nice and fast, so does clomid.
- on cycle support, your covered. Add in some fish/krill oil at a gram a day if your not already taking. And personally I like glutathione over tudca, but that's just me.
- inj site- you can back load slin pins and do it all over (I like it this way but took a while to figure out), or just do glutes like dr would do for trt, or thigh like they do for IM inj of certain medicines. Really, just play around. For quads I really like a 25g x1", don't feel anything, just like glutes (glutes you Really don't feel ****).
Just my 2c, hope you enjoy your cycle sir, sure sounds like you've done your homework (thank god, and props) and just play it safe.

Ps- 300mg 1x/wk w cyp works just fine for me. Some people's receptors respond better than others. Acetyl l-carnitine will help cleanse your receptors before durring and after to make sure you get the most out of it, and respond to pct best. Plus it helps you shed fat and keeps your brain sharp. A great addition to the arsenal.
 
Appreciate some of the tips. Anything on the pros and cons of running HCG in PCT? Ive heard its not the best idea. I probably won't touch the exem until I start my HCG protocol. I was thinking once I stop the DMZ I can do the HCG 500iu/wk and exem EOD 6.25 and adjust the dose as needed.
 
DUbz86 said:
I start same cycle in Feb but running Tbol for my kickstarter not sure how i am dosing it yet i have 50 50mg caps
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Have you run Tbol before? I am somewhat unfamiliar with the compound. Heavy liver toxicity? what kind of water retention are we talking about
 
Cooter Flap said:
Have you run Tbol before? I am somewhat unfamiliar with the compound. Heavy liver toxicity? what kind of water retention are we talking about
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Nope haven't ran tbol, I love dmz. from my research it's much drier and leaner gains the dbol. As far as liver toxicity I believe less than dmz but I have not ran it before.
 
Cooter Flap said:
Have you run Tbol before? I am somewhat unfamiliar with the compound. Heavy liver toxicity? what kind of water retention are we talking about
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Tbol, if your talking about turinabol, Not oral tren, it is Great for strength increases, no estrogen or prolactin sides, and not That hepatoxic. I would think same or better than dmz. After all they do use on children, but 5mg, not 50. Run with choline inositol and glutathione and you'll have the best protection around. Tudca is good stuff for sure, but glutathione is amazing, and choline inositol is great for orals. Read up on em. And of course 1g omega 3/day. They make ethyl ester omega 3 now. That's what I use.
 
chemjr what are your thoughts on the potential cycle layout I posted earlier? I wouldn't consider myself particularly gyno prone, but Ive never done an injectable cycle. Should I add Nolva. Considering swapping out the dmz for the Tbol, glutathione, and choline inositol. I think I am going to do the HCG the week following finishing up my oral and run it out until PCT.
 
Inj cycles, at least for me, have been easier on me than oral only cycles. But I don't really have gyno issues. Prolactin issues from nandrolone, only after a good long while. So really, I think it's person dependent.
Nolvadex w 19 nor is no good, test only- should be fine.
Tbol- message me. And w glutathione and choline inositol and a gallon a day and you should be fine if it's only gonna be about 4wks on orals. A "jumpstart" if you will.
Hcg- unless you notice significant shrinkage, and it bothers you, then use the hcg on cycle. Othserwise, I'd just wait until 2wks from last pin bc hcg can cause estro sides. I just let my boys shrivel up (makes junk look bigger anyways, lol, and not gonna get her pregnant!) and start hcg around 2wks from last pin depending on how I'm feeling. 250mg 2x/wk does it for me. A lot run more. Everyone is different. Also, I would use zinc and DIM 3x/day for estro control while on cycle until you notice gyno sides. Then maybe some exemestane (12.5@ e3d-1x/wk, 12.5 e2-3d had my estro completely tanked and joints felt like ass) with hcg or if gyno starts on cycle.
Nolva is good, I've just never needed it. Good t have on hand, but if you have exemestane, you should be fine w that. Totally up to you. If you've used aromatizing orals and haven't needed it then, then I doubt you'd need it for a test only cycle. Then again, could be wrong. Look up the university of Boston (i think) study about healthy men on 600 a week, should give you some food for thought. Any other questions, feel free to message me.
 
Cooter Flap said:
Appreciate some of the tips. Anything on the pros and cons of running HCG in PCT? Ive heard its not the best idea. I probably won't touch the exem until I start my HCG protocol. I was thinking once I stop the DMZ I can do the HCG 500iu/wk and exem EOD 6.25 and adjust the dose as needed.
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I think you have it on point here bud.
Just do what works for you and "less is more" & "it's a marathon not a sprint" are your best friends.
 
Okay after further research here is what my updated cycle is going to look like.

Weeks 1-5: Tbol 30/40/50/60/60, glutathione, CEL cycle assist
Weeks 6-14: Armidex 12.5mg
Weeks 1-12: Test E 600mg
Weeks 9-14: HCG 500mg
Weeks 10-14: Tbol 40/50/60/60, glutathione, CEL cycle assist
Weeks 15-18: Clomid 50/50/25/25, TUDCA, Anabeta Elite, M test
Fish Oil throughout
 
Cooter Flap said:
Okay after further research here is what my updated cycle is going to look like.

Weeks 1-5: Tbol 30/40/50/60/60, glutathione, CEL cycle assist
Weeks 6-14: Armidex 12.5mg
Weeks 1-12: Test E 600mg
Weeks 9-14: HCG 500mg
Weeks 10-14: Tbol 40/50/60/60, glutathione, CEL cycle assist
Weeks 15-18: Clomid 50/50/25/25, TUDCA, Anabeta Elite, M test
Fish Oil throughout
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I start almost same cycle in 5 weeks! Stoked CEO get ready for some serious gains!
 
You won me over on the tbol lmao are you running it at the end of your cycle too? Ive heard of some guys doing it and I don't think it will hurt
 
Also the hcg I am ordering comes in 1500mg ampules. When I break open the ampule do I just load the syringes with 250mg each and let them sit? will that still be okay?
 
Cooter Flap said:
Also the hcg I am ordering comes in 1500mg ampules. When I break open the ampule do I just load the syringes with 250mg each and let them sit? will that still be okay?
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Hcg typically comes with 1 ampule of biostatic water, and and a vial with a rubber top much like your vials of test. The hcg is freeze dried so you take the water out and VERY SLOWLY inject it into the vial with the hcg. Hcg is a delicate little thing and I've read that even injecting the water too fast will break it apart.

From what I've read you never get hcg as a liquid, it's too finicky to be shipped like that. Much easier to rehydrate it yourself.
 
Cooter Flap said:
Okay after further research here is what my updated cycle is going to look like.

Weeks 1-5: Tbol 30/40/50/60/60, glutathione, CEL cycle assist
Weeks 6-14: Armidex 12.5mg
Weeks 1-12: Test E 600mg
Weeks 9-14: HCG 500mg
Weeks 10-14: Tbol 40/50/60/60, glutathione, CEL cycle assist
Weeks 15-18: Clomid 50/50/25/25, TUDCA, Anabeta Elite, M test
Fish Oil throughout
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Youre taking TUDCA in PCT but not during the orals? Whats youre reasoning here
 
Well I just have about enough on hand to use 500mg a day for 4 weeks. I just figured I would use it more as a liver restoration rather than prevention where the glutathione and cycle assist will help there. Should I just add it to the last 4 weeks of tbol?
 
Cooter Flap said:
Well I just have about enough on hand to use 500mg a day for 4 weeks. I just figured I would use it more as a liver restoration rather than prevention where the glutathione and cycle assist will help there. Should I just add it to the last 4 weeks of tbol?
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I'm running tudca 500mg a day weeks 1-12 with hawthorn berry milk thistle apple cider vinegar
 
Cooter Flap said:
Well I just have about enough on hand to use 500mg a day for 4 weeks. I just figured I would use it more as a liver restoration rather than prevention where the glutathione and cycle assist will help there. Should I just add it to the last 4 weeks of tbol?
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Nah man, what youre doing makes perfect sense to me and IMO is the wisest use of the resources you have available. The Cycle Assist has a fairly hefty dose of NAC, I think youre going to have to be pretty unlucky to encounter any toxicity issues.
 
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