I need some advise planning a cycle.

jayman22

jayman22

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Hey guys, I purchased a few items and want some advice how to peice together my next cycle, but first a few stats

28, 205lbs, 12% bf, 5'9"
I've been training for over 10 years 5 of which enhanced

So I purchased a few items and would like to know your opinion on how to run them, here's what I have

2 vials of Durastanon 300 (Test NPP blend 2:1)
2 vials of Primobolan E 100
2 bottles of Tbol
2 vial HCG
1 kit HGH 100ius
1 bottle aromasin

My original plan looks very straight forward, a 10 week cycle consisting of
350 mgs test/week
175 mgs NPP/week
175 mgs Primo E/week
250 ius HCG EOD
12 mgs aromasin E4D
2.5 ius HGH ED
25 mgs tbol ED

I tend to stick to low doses for health and financial reasons, I can already feel the burn from you guys on how low these doses are, which brings me to a second option.

A 10 week cycle split into two 5 week cycles

Week 1-5
700 mgs test/week
350 mgs NPP/week
50 mgs tbol daily
25 mgs aromasin E4D
250 ius HCG EOD

Week 6-10
350 mgs Primo E/week
5 ius HGH ED
25 mgs aromasin E4D
250 ius HCG EOD

The idea here is to bulk up, then cut down while trying to restore my HTPA during the second half of the cycle.

Yes 5 weeks without testosterone, please save me the burn.

Either way I appreciate you're time if you've read this far, any feedback would be appreciated and if you have a better plan than mine posted I'd love to hear it.

Jasen
 

CroLifter

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Actually it is ok without test because you got hcg in there which will give you estrogen. You may not grow as much as with supraphysiological levels of estrogen but it is better than nothing.


That being said no need to drop test completely from week 6. I guarantee you that you wont restore your hpta on 350mg of primo.

Aaaand... the hcg is also suppressive. It keeps your testes functioning but keeps the hpta asleep.
 
jayman22

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Actually it is ok without test because you got hcg in there which will give you estrogen. You may not grow as much as with supraphysiological levels of estrogen but it is better than nothing.


That being said no need to drop test completely from week 6. I guarantee you that you wont restore your hpta on 350mg of primo.

Aaaand... the hcg is also suppressive. It keeps your testes functioning but keeps the hpta asleep.
Thanks for the reply,

I hear you on the primo suppression comment, are you advising a get some test to run alongside it if I go that route?

I definitely could drop the HCG after week 5 but I'd rather not.
 

CroLifter

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Thanks for the reply,

I hear you on the primo suppression comment, are you advising a get some test to run alongside it if I go that route?

I definitely could drop the HCG after week 5 but I'd rather not.
Run the hcg throughout the cycle at 250- 400 iu 2x a week or 125 - 250 iu eod.

I would advise keeping the test present throughout the whole cycle.
 
Hyde

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I was figuring:

10 wks test/NPP blend & HGH
First 5 wks Primo E
Last 5 Tbol to recomp strong (and primo will still be present the first couple weeks of the back half)

You could run more HGH for one half obviously but 2-3iu longer makes more sense to me.
 
jayman22

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I was figuring:

10 wks test/NPP blend & HGH
First 5 wks Primo E
Last 5 Tbol to recomp strong (and primo will still be present the first couple weeks of the back half)

You could run more HGH for one half obviously but 2-3iu longer makes more sense to me.
I really like this! Thank you. Split up the primo and tbol, I like it.

And yes longer low dose HGH makes more sence to me too.
 
Hyde

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I really like this! Thank you. Split up the primo and tbol, I like it.

And yes longer low dose HGH makes more sence to me too.
Never used primo but by all accounts it needs to be dosed higher than most compounds so 350 sounds a lot better than 175 to me lol. Tbol is usually run 40-80mg range vs 25mg too, and it will cause the most lipid upset - putting it at the end means you can retain good cholesterol values for at least half of the cycle vs trashing it from the start. And the bigger dose will let you diet more aggressively the back half while better retaining your strength and fullness.

Using GH from the start might also help your bulk from getting as sloppy so you are set up for a better ending physique.

Just clarifying why I said how I would run it, if you wanted the logic behind it.
 
jaycuda

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If getting more test is out of the picture, I think I would run the test at 500mg/wk for almost 8 instead of 750mg/wk for 5. That way you still have some elevated test levels for the majority of the last of the cycle before PCT time. How high do you usually run your test?

Also, I think I would end with Tbol(as said above), finish with some additional gains and it should keep you from getting lethargic from the test dropping the last half(or last two weeks) of the cycle.

**** makes you ready to kill weights whenever the thought even pops up haha
 
Alchemist11

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Hey,

PCT will most likely be a aromasin only 12 mgs E4D.

I generally stay away from SERMs as much as possible
Dude, that won't be fun ride. Don't use AI in PCT. It seems good in theory, sucks in practical application
 
Hyde

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So, basically you don't do PCT. This makes zero sense whatsoever. Aromasin is NOT pct. Get a serm.
I wasn’t going to go down that path, but I will says this:

If 20mg tamoxifen for 4 weeks is too toxic for your body to handle, you may not be healthy enough to blast in the first place.
 

CroLifter

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I wasn’t going to go down that path, but I will says this:

If 20mg tamoxifen for 4 weeks is too toxic for your body to handle, you may not be healthy enough to blast in the first place.
I agree both with you and him. Yes if tamoxifen seems toxic then one has no business touching orals i agree.

I think in this case he thinks he can get away without a serm and hence wants to lower the overall toxicity.

I mean it is possible to recover without a serm but it takes longer and you will feel sh1tty longer.

On a side note, here where i live vets flame anyone who wants to run a serm after test only. Their reasoning is that a young man should be able to recover from a basic test cycle on his own and to save serms for down the road when harsher cycles come into play.

Not saying I agree with this line of thinking, just saying that there are people in this game who resonate like that.

I think that running hcg throughout the cycle and then doing the shortest lowest dose possible serm pct is the way to go.
 
Alchemist11

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I agree both with you and him. Yes if tamoxifen seems toxic then one has no business touching orals i agree.

I think in this case he thinks he can get away without a serm and hence wants to lower the overall toxicity.

I mean it is possible to recover without a serm but it takes longer and you will feel sh1tty longer.

On a side note, here where i live vets flame anyone who wants to run a serm after test only. Their reasoning is that a young man should be able to recover from a basic test cycle on his own and to save serms for down the road when harsher cycles come into play.

Not saying I agree with this line of thinking, just saying that there are people in this game who resonate like that.

I think that running hcg throughout the cycle and then doing the shortest lowest dose possible serm pct is a way to go.
There is a reason why Balkan BB scene is so lame. It's full of Broscience and bullshyt. Even Milos Sarcev said that a little serm in pct goes a long way.
And lets be real, Tamoxifen is given to women... 20 mg has never induced bad side effects at male users and that tiny 20 mg can be difference between recovering and ending up on TRT for life...
I don't know about you guys, but I'd take a risk with 20 mg of Nolvadex for 3-4 weeks.
 
Whisky

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Forgot the recovery or no recovery aspect of a serm (I have no idea why you wouldn’t run one btw) but the whole keeping gains through recovering quicker is key in my mind.

why would you bust your ass on cycle to make gains only to lose them all in the time it takes for a natural hormonal recovery?
 

jrock645

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I wasn’t going to go down that path, but I will says this:

If 20mg tamoxifen for 4 weeks is too toxic for your body to handle, you may not be healthy enough to blast in the first place.
Is “toxicity” his concern though? I mean if thats the case, then dont cycle. The cycle is gonna be more toxic than 4 weeks of a serm. Its like being perfectly content to eat a big bowl of ice cream, but “dont you dare put any chocolate syrup on it cause that’ll ruin my diet.”
 
jaycuda

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Is “toxicity” his concern though? I mean if thats the case, then dont cycle. The cycle is gonna be more toxic than 4 weeks of a serm. Its like being perfectly content to eat a big bowl of ice cream, but “dont you dare put any chocolate syrup on it cause that’ll ruin my diet.”
Not gonna lie, I’m not making a bowl of ice cream without my syrup
 
jayman22

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Is “toxicity” his concern though? I mean if thats the case, then dont cycle. The cycle is gonna be more toxic than 4 weeks of a serm. Its like being perfectly content to eat a big bowl of ice cream, but “dont you dare put any chocolate syrup on it cause that’ll ruin my diet.”
Toxicity is not my concern, I have ran nolva in the past and I felt like a bag of trash vs just aromasin where I only felt like half a bag of trash. I'm just under the impression that once the cycle is done losing gains is just part of the reality and running a pct is more about feeling better rather than preserving gains.

Maybe I need to give clomid a try this time around?

Appreciate the feedback guys, this is exactly what I'm looking for.
 

jrock645

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Toxicity is not my concern, I have ran nolva in the past and I felt like a bag of trash vs just aromasin where I only felt like half a bag of trash. I'm just under the impression that once the cycle is done losing gains is just part of the reality and running a pct is more about feeling better rather than preserving gains.

Maybe I need to give clomid a try this time around?

Appreciate the feedback guys, this is exactly what I'm looking for.
try clomid then, or toremifene. Pct isn’t just about keeping gains, it’s about hpta recovery.
 
Hyde

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Toxicity is not my concern, I have ran nolva in the past and I felt like a bag of trash vs just aromasin where I only felt like half a bag of trash. I'm just under the impression that once the cycle is done losing gains is just part of the reality and running a pct is more about feeling better rather than preserving gains.

Maybe I need to give clomid a try this time around?

Appreciate the feedback guys, this is exactly what I'm looking for.
TOREMIFENE

Cons: twice as expensive
Pros: can’t even feel it
 

CroLifter

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@jayman22 while in theory you could stimulate the hpta using just an ai by completely crashing your estrogen, you are totally blocking an important hormone in your body.

With sth like clomid for example you are just blocking the receptor in the brain making your body believe estrogen is non existent, hence it ramps up the production to make up for it,
 
Renew1

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"I'm just under the impression that once the cycle is done losing gains is just part of the reality and running a pct is more about feeling better".

@jayman22 you are mistaken, brother.

PCT isn't about feeling better.
 

Joshinator

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To me pct is about recovering hpta. Gains or no gains. But recovering hpta WILL result in greater gains kept, and will result in feeling better (at the very least in the long term). Dude- use a serm.
 

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