I have been prescribed anastrozole. Need your thoughts.

mcr

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Hello guys, long story short - I took finasteride for many years to counter hair loss. I stopped taking it 3 years ago because I couldn't deal with side effects anymore but my estradiol remained very elevated to this day at 57 (normal threshold is 39), T level at 400ng/dL (on a max normal of 827) based on my recent blood test.

Dr said to take 1mg anastrozole but it only lowered it to 48 - still too high, T level jumped to 600. Dr thinks finasteride caused shutdown of 5ar production. Normally the body should start producing it again after stopping finasteride, but for some reason it hasn't gone back to normal, even after all these years. I basically have "post-finasteride syndrome."

Needless to say, my body has become 'soft' and I have gyno despite having gyno surgery. My chest just keeps puffing up with fat in the lower part of it.

Has anyone here dealt with anything similar, or have any thoughts or suggestions? I of course listen to my doctor but I just want to get thoughts and opinions on what course of action might be available and what options to explore.

Thank you.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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if your gaining fat on your chest you are not controlling your diet well enough.. simple as that. also how long have you been on anastrozol?

I use it quite a bit, and it really helps destroy lower chest fat when combined with a tight diet and exercise
 
xR1pp3Rx

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if your gaining fat on your chest you are not controlling your diet well enough.. simple as that. also how long have you been on anastrozol?

I use it quite a bit, and it really helps destroy lower chest fat when combined with a tight diet and exercise
 
xR1pp3Rx

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if your gaining fat on your chest you are not controlling your diet well enough.. simple as that. also how long have you been on anastrozol?

I use it quite a bit, and it really helps destroy lower chest fat when combined with a tight diet and exercise
 
bad rad

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This study was on juvenile rats but shows promise for stimulating 5-ar in the Leydig cells using hCG. I don't have an appropriate dose to suggest but since your T levels are slightly low 125iu EOD would be a start.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2362432
 
unitas27

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if your gaining fat on your chest you are not controlling your diet well enough.. simple as that. also how long have you been on anastrozol?

I use it quite a bit, and it really helps destroy lower chest fat when combined with a tight diet and exercise
What dosage scheme did you use for adex?
 
xR1pp3Rx

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I usually take .5 ed but sometimes.. like when cutting, I will run 1mg ed. just depends on what im taking at the time.. currently able to control aromatase @ .5 while running 600 test per week.
 

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I was on anostrozole 1mg every other day. but this week i bumped it up to once a day per doctor recommendation because every other day only lowered E2 to 48

My diet and lifting are under control

Before my estradiol shot up, even when I was in bulking mode and my bodyfat was elevated, my chest was perfectly flat. the puffiness in my chest is gyno, it's distinctly different from how "normal" fat gain affects the chest

bad rad thanks for the study, i need to find a way to kickstart 5ar
 

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Also wondering this; and how long after your anastrozol dose did you get bloodwork?
1mg every other day, bloodwork after 15 days. that's when i got the 48 result on E2. now bumped it up to once a day.
 

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1mg a day and it only lowered it a few points? Crazy. Why not try aromasin? Adex obviously doesn't work for you.

What was your DHT levels from blood test?
 

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1mg a day and it only lowered it a few points? Crazy. Why not try aromasin? Adex obviously doesn't work for you.

What was your DHT levels from blood test?
1mg every OTHER day lowered it to 48

I haven't done a test from taking it every day, that won't be for another 3 months

didn't test DHT
 

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DHT levels would help prove his theory.

When using 5ar drugs like finasteride it blocks the conversion of Test to DHT thus total test and E2 can be raised. Very strange he didn't test DHT. Ask him for aromasin but your E2 is not crazy high
 

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it is still abnomally high and i am noticing very real side effects like gyno

also, this may be anecdotal, but i am noticing a lot of hairloss since starting anastrozole
 
xR1pp3Rx

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probably more from coming off the finesteride.. takes a min for that stuff to clear your system so you wouldn't have start losing hair right away.
 
Toren

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also, this may be anecdotal, but i am noticing a lot of hairloss since starting anastrozole

Finasteride will clear the system fairly quickly as it has a short half-life. DHT levels typically will begin to bounce back within a week as additional 5ar enzymes are created.

Initial hairloss from cessation of finasteride use typically falls in the range of 4-8 months. Hairloss after that will of course continue as new hair cycles will continue to be without the protection of a 5ar inhibitor and hair will continue to miniaturize.

AI's are known to increase Test, and because of that, DHT as well. That recent hairloss is likely from another cause though. Unless there is some sort of systemic stress or drastic hormonal/signalling change, the transient hairloss we often see is usually as a result of a process (or chain of actions) that started months before..
 

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probably more from coming off the finesteride.. takes a min for that stuff to clear your system so you wouldn't have start losing hair right away.
I stopped finasteride 3 years ago

didn't experience major hairloss until i started anastrozole one month ago

Finasteride will clear the system fairly quickly as it has a short half-life. DHT levels typically will begin to bounce back within a week as additional 5ar enzymes are created.

Initial hairloss from cessation of finasteride use typically falls in the range of 4-8 months. Hairloss after that will of course continue as new hair cycles will continue to be without the protection of a 5ar inhibitor and hair will continue to miniaturize.

AI's are known to increase Test, and because of that, DHT as well. That recent hairloss is likely from another cause though. Unless there is some sort of systemic stress or drastic hormonal/signalling change, the transient hairloss we often see is usually as a result of a process (or chain of actions) that started months before..
You are technically correct, that's exactly why my case is unusual, and why post-finasteride syndrome is real. My body continued to act AS IF i was still on finasteride. even years after stopping finasteride, 5ar didn't seem to bounce back, no major shedding, and estradiol remained elevated. that is, until i started anastrozole
 

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I stopped finasteride 3 years ago

didn't experience major hairloss until i started anastrozole one month ago



You are technically correct, that's exactly why my case is unusual, and why post-finasteride syndrome is real. My body continued to act AS IF i was still on finasteride. even years after stopping finasteride, 5ar didn't seem to bounce back, no major shedding, and estradiol remained elevated. that is, until i started anastrozole
No offense but your doctor is a moron. He tells you a theory about 5ar and then doesnt test for it. I've been on finasteride 18 years or so, never had an issue with E2. Hormones are a funny thing.

Your test levels are low and are not helping the fat
 

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No offense but your doctor is a moron. He tells you a theory about 5ar and then doesnt test for it. I've been on finasteride 18 years or so, never had an issue with E2. Hormones are a funny thing.

Your test levels are low and are not helping the fat
He said 5ar cannot be tested for, and even if he could, it wouldn't help much because we can't control it or force the body to produce it.

I am shocked to hear your experience with finasteride. Could you share any lab results if you have any? finasteride is essentially a feminizing drug, so it's quite impossible for it to not affect hormones if it's blocking DHT. Or have you been taking an AI all along?
 
fueledpassion

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As others have stated, test DHT and if low, get on DHT cream. And I've heard of Fina causing problems with DHT production.
 

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As others have stated, test DHT and if low, get on DHT cream. And I've heard of Fina causing problems with DHT production.
yes the point of finasteride is to block DHT, that's what it does. and i'd rather not get on DHT cream, it won't solve anything. I want my hormones to get back to normal, not depend on a cream forever.
 
fueledpassion

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yes the point of finasteride is to block DHT, that's what it does. and i'd rather not get on DHT cream, it won't solve anything. I want my hormones to get back to normal, not depend on a cream forever.
Ok, so don't then. You could have taken Fenugreek instead of Fina or a combination of the Fenugreek and a diet high in lycopene to reduce DHT conversion but still increase total T.

But living with what you have today might be an option you have to consider. That said, I bet diet and careful supplementation could fix this issue over time just not within days or weeks though.

Once you get DHT normal again (assuming it is low now) you can Increase consumption of lycopene and add Fenugreek to your supplements instead of taking Fina.

Fina, while effective, is a drug I tell folks to steer clear of because you get more than you bargained for with it. It seems to cause more trouble long term than its worth in the short term. You Know this now but my point is that semi-permanent effects are inevitable.
 
fueledpassion

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Something else is that generally speaking, High DHT levels needs higher estrogen levels to cause hair loss/thinning in most. It explains why my hair thins a LOT when I take Masteron or Primo w/ Test but taken by themselves, not much happens.

There are a host of things you can do to boost DHT again but they all require a good deal of work. Here is an article that could get you started:

https://www.anabolicmen.com/dihydrotestosterone/

Personally, I think your best long term strategy would be to work on/prepare yourself for a bald scalp and get DHT as high as possible simply because If I had to choose between the benefits of DHT or a head of hair, it'd be DHT all day long. It is the type of testosterone that does all things male and creates confidence, strong positive mood and also keeps you from getting panicky or anxious. Of course, it also increases sex drive and erection quality in most and everyone benefits from the hardening effects and strength gains.
 

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He said 5ar cannot be tested for, and even if he could, it wouldn't help much because we can't control it or force the body to produce it.

I am shocked to hear your experience with finasteride. Could you share any lab results if you have any? finasteride is essentially a feminizing drug, so it's quite impossible for it to not affect hormones if it's blocking DHT. Or have you been taking an AI all along?
The test he should order is DHT. If in normal range his theory is crap. If 5AR inhibition is still occurring as a result of years of finasteride use you will have low DHT.

Its not a feminizing drug by any means and it doesnt eliminate DHT just lowers it enough to effect serum concentrations in the skin (scalp) and help with hair loss. My experience on it has been positive for the most part. It has helped my hair incredibly. I would be close to bald with out it as I was losing it fast and I still have a good head of hair 18 years later. I have had no issues with building muscles and a physique at all. I am in great shape. DHT is not a great muscle builder. No signs of gyno or e2 problems ever.

On the flip side it definitely can cause libido issues. It seems to come and go in waves but thats true of hormones in general. For me it hasnt been that much of an issue. I have read about all the post finasteride stuff and honestly I dont believe all of it. I am sure some of it is true but just the anecdotal crap I read on this board about XYZ compound every day is just as bad.

My labs are always normal. Medium to High test for my age, medium E2 etc.. Nothing remarkable. I do not take an AI unless running something that would require it. But generally never need to.
 
fueledpassion

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Once he finds out his DHT levels, I'd be interested in seeing how much chaning the diet could make with lowering/raising DHT levels in the body.

Something else to consider here is a low dose of Proviron (25-50mg/day). I recently posted studies indicating little to no suppression of natural T all the way up to 100mg/day for some. Almost no one got suppression at 50mg/day. That'd be enough to grab all those DHT benefits without supressing natural T, in fact, at that dose it might actually just raise total and free T and thus help address low DHT.

Another guy years ago had same exact problem you are facing today but with additional issues with prolactin. You might also get yours checked too. High prolactin levels look alot like high estrogen levels, which look alot like low DHT/T levels.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/129032-proviron-stack-raise.html
 

mcr

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Something else is that generally speaking, High DHT levels needs higher estrogen levels to cause hair loss/thinning in most. It explains why my hair thins a LOT when I take Masteron or Primo w/ Test but taken by themselves, not much happens.

There are a host of things you can do to boost DHT again but they all require a good deal of work. Here is an article that could get you started:

Personally, I think your best long term strategy would be to work on/prepare yourself for a bald scalp and get DHT as high as possible simply because If I had to choose between the benefits of DHT or a head of hair, it'd be DHT all day long. It is the type of testosterone that does all things male and creates confidence, strong positive mood and also keeps you from getting panicky or anxious. Of course, it also increases sex drive and erection quality in most and everyone benefits from the hardening effects and strength gains.
you are right - when i was on finasteride, i became increasingly depressed and experienced a lot of anxiety, and never tied it to the fin. it was so bad that i went to see a few doctors, and my normal self is very confident, i've never been in that state. and the kicker is that none of those doctors made the connection with finasteride, they prescribed some depression pills which i refused to take.

in a perfect world, i'd tell you i can handle a bald scalp. but my hair is a huge part of my identity, and hair loss is already playing a number on me. i know it sounds easy, but it's hard.
 

mcr

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The test he should order is DHT. If in normal range his theory is crap. If 5AR inhibition is still occurring as a result of years of finasteride use you will have low DHT.

Its not a feminizing drug by any means and it doesnt eliminate DHT just lowers it enough to effect serum concentrations in the skin (scalp) and help with hair loss. My experience on it has been positive for the most part. It has helped my hair incredibly. I would be close to bald with out it as I was losing it fast and I still have a good head of hair 18 years later. I have had no issues with building muscles and a physique at all. I am in great shape. DHT is not a great muscle builder. No signs of gyno or e2 problems ever.

On the flip side it definitely can cause libido issues. It seems to come and go in waves but thats true of hormones in general. For me it hasnt been that much of an issue. I have read about all the post finasteride stuff and honestly I dont believe all of it. I am sure some of it is true but just the anecdotal crap I read on this board about XYZ compound every day is just as bad.

My labs are always normal. Medium to High test for my age, medium E2 etc.. Nothing remarkable. I do not take an AI unless running something that would require it. But generally never need to.
can you post the numbers? T E2, etc

Also if you have labs from before taking finasteride can you post those as well?

thanks!
 

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can you post the numbers? T E2, etc

Also if you have labs from before taking finasteride can you post those as well?

thanks!
Sorry man i dont have labs from 18 years ago. It was all paper back then. I have a ton of bloods the past few years.

I just looked at 5 bloods in the past 1.5 years. Test is always around 750 naturally. E2 is always between 15-25. Everything is always in range except my Bun/Creatinine but that is a different conversation. 1 size does not fit all though. Some people can walk around with E2 of 50 and feel and look fine.

I would get your test up to at least 700 and get your E2 in check. You should feel better and will be able to lose the chest fat. I really think once you get your test up to a decent level you'll get more conversion to DHT, plus once you inhibit the E2 conversion that will help the process as well.
 
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