I have an important question, and I trust you guys

Mattyros2

New member
Okay, I’ve been doing 500 mg test e for 4 months. My last month I bought a bottle of tren ace and was planning on doing 4 weeks of it @150mg a week just to feel it out and reap some benefits.
I’m 27, and I’ve done a cycle last year, which consisted of anavar and test @500. I’ve done sarms quite a few times, including the first month of this test blast.
If I do this tren at this dosage/duration, will Pct be an absolute bitch? I need my dick to work about 4-6 about weeks after my last pin. I don’t think I want to make the commitment of TRT yet.
My total test and free test were high last year before my initial cycle,
Do people exaggerate about recovering tren? Especially these does. I have 5,000iu hc, clomid, Nolva.

thanks guys

I also have an ampule of masteron prop that I could run instead.
Thanks
 
Sorry dude, no1 can answer thos question. It's completely personal experience and every cycle has the risk of pct being a bitch or not working. Long ester 19 nors are typically the worst for ppl who pct and short ester 19's like tren ace my also cause problems. But so can everything else.
 
Almost half a year, ending in a month of Tren?
I'd bet it won't be easy .... If you Do recover.
If this is your second cycle, it was pretty "ambitious" in my opinion.
 
if I was to try and recover from a long multi year aas run (I have in the past), I would do a super solid PCT (Nolva and clomid) and then go right into the enclompihene HRT protocol of everyday dosing for a good while. Then perhaps slowly stop that into a solid test booster like m-test. Will your levels ever be the natural you once had? I can’t answer that.
 
Everybody is different and there is no answer to this. I've been very fortunate as I seem to keep rebounding after my cycles... however I've never ran a cycle for 5+ months either... not even close. My goal is to push off TRT as long as I can and if I were as young as you, I would certainly feel even stronger about that... but everyone is different.

In my opinion, the way people tend to use AAS today, everyone is going to be on TRT younger and younger. The whole "blasting" and "cruising" thing is a newer trend. The guys in Arnold's day didn't blast or cruise... hell, Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler weren't blasting and cruising. They went on gear and then they got off. And a lot of them didn't know/ have the information around the SERMS and AIs and other on cycle and PCT support that we have available today... which unfortunately people seem to take for granted. Seems like today's bodybuilders have gotten quite jaded and think they can get away with running longer cycles, harsher compounds, and higher doses.

I didn't mean to negatively direct that at you OP or anyone else... it just is what it is. Everyone has a different risk/reward profile when it comes to this stuff. Sometimes it just feels like every time we take one step forward towards better safety, we simultaneously take 2 steps backwards.

But if you want my opinion, based on your post, maybe you should skip the tren.
 
Stacks1 said:
Everybody is different and there is no answer to this. I've been very fortunate as I seem to keep rebounding after my cycles... however I've never ran a cycle for 5+ months either... not even close. My goal is to push off TRT as long as I can and if I were as young as you, I would certainly feel even stronger about that... but everyone is different.

In my opinion, the way people tend to use AAS today, everyone is going to be on TRT younger and younger. The whole "blasting" and "cruising" thing is a newer trend. The guys in Arnold's day didn't blast or cruise... hell, Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler weren't blasting and cruising. They went on gear and then they got off. And a lot of them didn't know/ have the information around the SERMS and AIs and other on cycle and PCT support that we have available today... which unfortunately people seem to take for granted. Seems like today's bodybuilders have gotten quite jaded and think they can get away with running longer cycles, harsher compounds, and higher doses.

I didn't mean to negatively direct that at you OP or anyone else... it just is what it is. Everyone has a different risk/reward profile when it comes to this stuff. Sometimes it just feels like every time we take one step forward towards better safety, we simultaneously take 2 steps backwards.

But if you want my opinion, based on your post, maybe you should skip the tren.
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The guys in Arnold's day never came off, they all used deca, so unless they didn't pin anything for 6+months then they without a doubt were shutdown year round and never had there own natural testosterone production
 
Smont said:
The guys in Arnold's day never came off, they all used deca, so unless they didn't pin anything for 6+months then they without a doubt were shutdown year round and never had there own natural testosterone production
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If you have a source for that I'd be interested in seeing it. I don't believe steroid abuse has ever been as bad as it is now. I can't say no one would use them year round back then but I don't believe that was the norm. Most claim they used them mostly near competition. It doesn't mean they weren't shutdown though. The misconception back then was just weaning off the AAS. When Cutler and Coleman did it I believe they just went cold turkey. But even as big as they were, they didn't use AAS year round... they always jumped off. And their cycles would probably be considered mild by today's standards.
 
Stacks1 said:
If you have a source for that I'd be interested in seeing it. I don't believe steroid abuse has ever been as bad as it is now. I can't say no one would use them year round back then but I don't believe that was the norm. Most claim they used them mostly near competition. It doesn't mean they weren't shutdown though. The misconception back then was just weaning off the AAS. When Cutler and Coleman did it I believe they just went cold turkey. But even as big as they were, they didn't use AAS year round... they always jumped off. And their cycles would probably be considered mild by today's standards.
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You just believe 100% of what you read and believe 100% of what they say eh? Sorry if that comes off as harsh but seriously… I mean Ronnie for the longest time claimed “natty”. Lmao
 
SSJ4GOD said:
You just believe 100% of what you read and believe 100% of what they say eh? Sorry if that comes off as harsh but seriously… I mean Ronnie for the longest time claimed “natty”. Lmao
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Everybody had to claim natty... you can't just admit that you're on gear and toss away your sponsorship deals back then. Multiple of them have even said they were tested in the off season for AAS... they said they most likely tested for AAS that they knew that they wouldn't use in the off season but there was an image that they had to pretend to keep up with.
 
Stacks1 said:
If you have a source for that I'd be interested in seeing it. I don't believe steroid abuse has ever been as bad as it is now. I can't say no one would use them year round back then but I don't believe that was the norm. Most claim they used them mostly near competition. It doesn't mean they weren't shutdown though. The misconception back then was just weaning off the AAS. When Cutler and Coleman did it I believe they just went cold turkey. But even as big as they were, they didn't use AAS year round... they always jumped off. And their cycles would probably be considered mild by today's standards.
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I do t think you know anything about old school cycles outside of the lies mainstream guys tell now, They all openly talked about how deca was the drug of choice, if you use deca or eq yiu have to be off for months and months to clear your system. Just a little common gear knowlknowledge tells us this, guys openly talked about taking 100's of mg of dbol daily too. It's all common knowledge. They never came off because even tho they went "off" it's not long enough to clear your system and let testosterone production start back up.

Back in the 70's and 80's some guys took 1000's of mg, DAILY. again, no speculation here, guys admitted it. It's common knowledge. There were even Dr.s studying some of these guys on up to 10,000mg PER DAY.

Today's guys DO NOT use more steroids, they do use extra stuff like gh and slin and the old-school guys abused orals where today's pros know that you only use orals at the end of contest prep.

You have been terribly mislead about what they did back in the day. They were super reckless.

This below is a extreme but guys did not use less "steroids" back in the day and there drug selection was more dangerous. FACTS
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Most of today's pros use test, eq, npp in the off season, precontest they bo abuse the **** out of stuff IL give you that. But Arnold's Era was abusing dbol and deca at ridiculous doses
 
Stacks1 said:
Everybody had to claim natty... you can't just admit that you're on gear and toss away your sponsorship deals back then. Multiple of them have even said they were tested in the off season for AAS... they said they most likely tested for AAS that they knew that they wouldn't use in the off season but there was an image that they had to pretend to keep up with.
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There's also ZERO benefits to "weaning" off lo g esters, that's the whole point of the ester, it tapers itself off. By "weening" off yiur just staying on longer and causing more problems as your hormones slowly crash
 
By the way, I don't mean anything offensive or whatever, you just gotta pay more attention to stuff outside of what a few select ppl say they did.

Deca was the golden Era main compound, deca has about a 12 day half life and metabolites up to 3 week half life so 21 days.

5 half lives to clear a drug after last injection that's 60 to 105 days for deca to clear your system. This is why a good coach tells guys who pct not to use deca or eq. Because they take so long to clear that you can't ever really recover unless you run 1 12 week cycle and stay off for the rest of the year
 
I think your misunderstanding what I'm saying.... the point of saying they were weaning off was because AAS were new back then and they didn't fully understand how to come off, so they weaned off thinking it would be a better way to come off. I am not saying it was beneficial... I am saying they were experimental. I will check out the video tomorrow. Like I said, there were some guys who abused them (especially then since they didn't fully understand the risks) but that doesn't mean they all abused them.

Fast forward to Cutler and Coleman and they were still somewhat figuring them out... even they didn't know how to properly PCT in the beginning... but do you believe they ran AAS year round and never came off? I doubt they ever even heard of the terms blasting and cruising. So, do I think the pro IFBB of today run more gear than them per year? Absolutely. Maybe then they ran test at 500mgs when they were on cycle.... today that's probably closer to a gram now... a lot even higher than that when blasting and no one comes off.

Look, none of us were in the room when they were taking AAS so no one can say for certain, so everything is speculation. Coleman claims that when the DEA cam in and cracked down on AAS he was forced to get his AAS and GH from a physician and he only used AAS that was prescribed to him... do I believe that? No. Cutler says he was tested in the off season... do I believe it? Sure. But even he said they probably tested for like winstrol or something they knew they wouldn't be using to keep up with appearances. But you can find interviews of Coleman and Cutler pretty openly speaking about their cycling back in the day and what they took and how much. They ran everything you would expect but they didn't stay on gear year round like they do today. And Coleman and Cutler are certainly not doing any anti-AAS messaging either. They believe AAS should be allowed for recreational use... but they'll tell you, like most, that the perception of what they were using and how much has been completely distorted and pales in comparison of what BBers use today. Like I said, you don't have to believe them.... but I'd be skeptical of what their critics claim as well.
 
Stacks1 said:
I think your misunderstanding what I'm saying.... the point of saying they were weaning off was because AAS were new back then and they didn't fully understand how to come off, so they weaned off thinking it would be a better way to come off. I am not saying it was beneficial... I am saying they were experimental. I will check out the video tomorrow. Like I said, there were some guys who abused them (especially then since they didn't fully understand the risks) but that doesn't mean they all abused them.

Fast forward to Cutler and Coleman and they were still somewhat figuring them out... even they didn't know how to properly PCT in the beginning... but do you believe they ran AAS year round and never came off? I doubt they ever even heard of the terms blasting and cruising. So, do I think the pro IFBB of today run more gear than them per year? Absolutely. Maybe then they ran test at 500mgs when they were on cycle.... today that's probably closer to a gram now... a lot even higher than that when blasting and no one comes off.

Look, none of us were in the room when they were taking AAS so no one can say for certain, so everything is speculation. Coleman claims that when the DEA cam in and cracked down on AAS he was forced to get his AAS and GH from a physician and he only used AAS that was prescribed to him... do I believe that? No. Cutler says he was tested in the off season... do I believe it? Sure. But even he said they probably tested for like winstrol or something they knew they wouldn't be using to keep up with appearances. But you can find interviews of Coleman and Cutler pretty openly speaking about their cycling back in the day and what they took and how much. They ran everything you would expect but they didn't stay on gear year round like they do today. And Coleman and Cutler are certainly not doing any anti-AAS messaging either. They believe AAS should be allowed for recreational use... but they'll tell you, like most, that the perception of what they were using and how much has been completely distorted and pales in comparison of what BBers use today. Like I said, you don't have to believe them.... but I'd be skeptical of what their critics claim as well.
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The weaning off is the least important part. The point I'm trying to make is with deca being used as there main compound there never really off and the old-school guys were abusing steroids just as much or more then today's guys. Today's guys have gh and slin and more knowledgeable and that = much larger physiques. I have guys at the gym in there 60's and 70's that talk to us about gear. They used ALOT back in Arnold's day.

I've provided what I can, Google can find you plenty of guys who talked about big doses back in the day.

That's all I got for this topic. You don't have to believe anything or you can believe everything. Or something in the middle, whatever floats your boat
 
Smont said:
The weaning off is the least important part. The point I'm trying to make is with deca being used as there main compound there never really off and the old-school guys were abusing steroids just as much or more then today's guys. Today's guys have gh and slin and more knowledgeable and that = much larger physiques. I have guys at the gym in there 60's and 70's that talk to us about gear. They used ALOT back in Arnold's day.

I've provided what I can, Google can find you plenty of guys who talked about big doses back in the day.

That's all I got for this topic. You don't have to believe anything or you can believe anything.
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You're 100% correct about that. But in Arnold's day they didn't use test so it's probably a poorer comparison to use Arnold... I probably should have stuck with Coleman and Cutler... who used test... but not year round like they do today. Regardless they are all on TRT now because that comes with the territory... but they weren't blasting and cruising back then. They literally cycled on and off gear. I don't believe that exists with the IFBB pros of today... now it's simply a race to whoever can tolerate more AAS year round.
 
Stacks1 said:
I am not arguing with you there. My point was that there is a perception that bodybuilde
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They weren't cycling off lol, you don't think Ronnie was using deca and eq? Jay himself said he loved eq and he use to come off for 8 weeks between cycles, That's not long enough for the drugs to clear out and you're still on cycle Jay Cutler was on year round And he unknowingly admitted this just by saying he uses EQ and only comes off for 8 weeks. That's not coming off. At all.
 
If your running cycles with deca, eq or even sustanon, and you only come off for 8 weeks, yiur never off
 
Smont said:
If your running cycles with deca, eq or even sustanon, and you only come off for 8 weeks, yiur never off
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Once again... if you stop taking AAS for 3 months completely in between cycles (forgot about how much is in your system), then you can't be taking as much as the guys who take it year round. If you add up total AAS in a year used it's not comparable.
 
Stacks1 said:
Once again... if you stop taking AAS for 3 months completely in between cycles (forgot about how much is in your system), then you can't be taking as much as the guys who take it year round. If you add up total AAS in a year used it's not comparable.
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Didn’t smont already tell you they were on ridiculous amounts back then.
 
SSJ4GOD said:
Didn’t smont already tell you they were on ridiculous amounts back then.
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There is a lot of speculation around Arnold's day and I've heard both sides... but there is more insight into what Cutler and Coleman were taking back in their day... now you don't have to believe them but if you look at what they claimed they were cycling it was still far less than what I suspect the guys today are taking. Jay was pretty surprised when he heard how much AAS the guys today were on.... but yeah... maybe he's a liar and was doing far more than he is claiming. But Ronnie had said similar.
 
It's all good guys, we're not going to agree so I'm dropping it, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter because we don't fall into any of the categories we're talking about. Not worth anyone getting upset about and it's OK do disagree. If we all just always agreed with each other this whole place would be extremely boring and no one would learn anything.
 
Smont said:
It's all good guys, we're not going to agree so I'm dropping it, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter because we don't fall into any of the categories we're talking about. Not worth anyone getting upset about and it's OK do disagree. If we all just always agreed with each other this whole place would be extremely boring and no one would learn anything.
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Agreed. I'm not trying to be a douche or anything. I was genuinely trying to bring the perspective of what guys like Cutler and Coleman were saying about AAS use today compared to back in their day. And the truth is, we have better on cycle and PCT support today, so it makes sense that guys use more gear today... but like I said, they were pretty surprised by how much guys use year round nowadays. But is it possible they're lying... sure it's possible.

I'm on my phone but there was a decent interview with Cutler on his AAS use on YouTube with Greg Doucette that gives some insight into what he claims he used to use... take it for what it's worth.
 
Stacks1 said:
Everybody is different and there is no answer to this. I've been very fortunate as I seem to keep rebounding after my cycles... however I've never ran a cycle for 5+ months either... not even close. My goal is to push off TRT as long as I can and if I were as young as you, I would certainly feel even stronger about that... but everyone is different.

In my opinion, the way people tend to use AAS today, everyone is going to be on TRT younger and younger. The whole "blasting" and "cruising" thing is a newer trend. The guys in Arnold's day didn't blast or cruise... hell, Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler weren't blasting and cruising. They went on gear and then they got off. And a lot of them didn't know/ have the information around the SERMS and AIs and other on cycle and PCT support that we have available today... which unfortunately people seem to take for granted. Seems like today's bodybuilders have gotten quite jaded and think they can get away with running longer cycles, harsher compounds, and higher doses.

I didn't mean to negatively direct that at you OP or anyone else... it just is what it is. Everyone has a different risk/reward profile when it comes to this stuff. Sometimes it just feels like every time we take one step forward towards better safety, we simultaneously take 2 steps backwards.

But if you want my opinion, based on your post, maybe you should skip the tren.
[/QUOTE
No man, that’s perfectly good advice. My thought process is, I know a lot people used to (and still) don’t Pct, so serms should surely get my 27 year old balls working after 5 months of shutdown. I’m not trying to be irresponsible, I just feel like I recovered from my last test cycle perfectly which was 4 months long,

I honestly am not that against being on trt. It sounds like a pain in the ass to go through the process of going to a doctor and getting it prescribed
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SSJ4GOD said:
if I was to try and recover from a long multi year aas run (I have in the past), I would do a super solid PCT (Nolva and clomid) and then go right into the enclompihene HRT protocol of everyday dosing for a good while. Then perhaps slowly stop that into a solid test booster like m-test. Will your levels ever be the natural you once had? I can’t answer that.
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Thanks. I am not aware of the enclomiphene protocol but I will try to find it!
 
Smont said:
The weaning off is the least important part. The point I'm trying to make is with deca being used as there main compound there never really off and the old-school guys were abusing steroids just as much or more then today's guys. Today's guys have gh and slin and more knowledgeable and that = much larger physiques. I have guys at the gym in there 60's and 70's that talk to us about gear. They used ALOT back in Arnold's day.

I've provided what I can, Google can find you plenty of guys who talked about big doses back in the day.

That's all I got for this topic. You don't have to believe anything or you can believe everything. Or something in the middle, whatever floats your boat
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I tend to agree with this. They all say the started high and weened down until 8 weeks and then completely came off for a few weeks. There’s no way
 
Smont said:
I do t think you know anything about old school cycles outside of the lies mainstream guys tell now, They all openly talked about how deca was the drug of choice, if you use deca or eq yiu have to be off for months and months to clear your system. Just a little common gear knowlknowledge tells us this, guys openly talked about taking 100's of mg of dbol daily too. It's all common knowledge. They never came off because even tho they went "off" it's not long enough to clear your system and let testosterone production start back up.

Back in the 70's and 80's some guys took 1000's of mg, DAILY. again, no speculation here, guys admitted it. It's common knowledge. There were even Dr.s studying some of these guys on up to 10,000mg PER DAY.

Today's guys DO NOT use more steroids, they do use extra stuff like gh and slin and the old-school guys abused orals where today's pros know that you only use orals at the end of contest prep.

You have been terribly mislead about what they did back in the day. They were super reckless.

This below is a extreme but guys did not use less "steroids" back in the day and there drug selection was more dangerous. FACTS
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

bodybuilders used to eat dbol by the bottle
 
Renew1 said:
Almost half a year, ending in a month of Tren?
I'd bet it won't be easy .... If you Do recover.
If this is your second cycle, it was pretty "ambitious" in my opinion.
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Yeah, I’m an ambitious guy. My first cycle was 500 for 4.5 months and i recovered well
 
Im finishing out this last month with mast prop @ 75 mg eod. I have 5,000 iu of hcg, enough clomiphene citrate for 50/50/25/25 and 55-20mg tamoxifen pills that will suffice for the standard 40/40/20/20 plus another week or two of 20 mg ed.

I tried buying another 5,000 iu hcg from aminoasylm but they’re out of stock. I was going to add enclo, hcg, and hmg.
What would y’all do? Sorry guys, I’m new to this, I’m okay with taking risks, and I know the risks associated before i started. I would deeply appreciate good advice and guidance and not lecturing like people on Reddit.
 
Smont said:
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This was an interesting interview thanks for posting it. It could be true... but it is a freaky amount of drugs he used. I mean 9 shots per day and 3 bottles of orals per day? That's just knocking on death's door. And I'm not saying it's true or not... but to believe his story is the norm over Ric Drasin's and Steve Davis' stories puts us in the same position about not knowing who is telling the truth and who is lying.

On the same channel, I found another video with Ric Drasin where he disputes huge amounts of AAS, saying BBers were taking 1 shot per week and 3 -4 dbol per day. Dbol pills back then were only 5mgs each, so those that equate it to 100mgs of dbol are either from conflicting testimonials or a misunderstood on tablet doses. He claims he never saw anyone use more than that and this was also backed up by Steve Davis in the interview and backed up in Frank Zane's training diary. Obviously I can't say that all of these testimonials are true but there certainly are a lot of them from pretty credible sources, and perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle of both side. If there is any interest in seeing the video it's below...

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