I feel best on a protocol that puts me above range... advice?

[jiu jitsu]

So ive tried a few dosing protocols and have a journal where I log the side effects after 6-12 weeks.

20mg eod puts me at
Total Testosterone 830 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Testosterone (151 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)
Sensitive Estradiol 27 pgmL (< or = 29)

I feel flat and low energy.. also irritable on this dose.. like a slightly better version of when I was hypogonadal pre testosterone, despite my bloodwork looking great . it sucks.

at 25mg eod My bloodwork is
Total Testosterone 907 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Testosterone (167 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)
Sensitive Estradiol 44 pgmL (< or = 29)

Feel a little better but almost like Im teetering on the edge of feeling good some days and feeling bad other days.

at 30 mg eod my bloodwork is
Total Testosterone 1257 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Testosterone (226 pg/mL (46-224)
Sensitive Estradiol 61 pgmL (< or = 29)

Here I feel amazing.. 0 anxiety, Perfect sleep, libido and erection quality, high energy, and I can actually wake up and get out of bed without feeling like Im wearing a weighted vest.

However my bloodwork is in supra physiological territory so this concerns me. I rn this dose for 8 months and got bloodwork. my hematocrit and hemoglobin were fine (45.6 HCT and 15.6 Hemoglobin). along with my other health markers. is it a bad idea to run my TRT this high?

 

[Renew1]

So ive tried a few dosing protocols and have a journal where I log the side effects after 6-12 weeks.

20mg eod puts me at
Total Testosterone 830 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Testosterone (151 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)
Sensitive Estradiol 27 pgmL (< or = 29)

I feel flat and low energy.. also irritable on this dose.. like a slightly better version of when I was hypogonadal pre testosterone, despite my bloodwork looking great . it sucks.

at 25mg eod My bloodwork is
Total Testosterone 907 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Testosterone (167 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)
Sensitive Estradiol 44 pgmL (< or = 29)

Feel a little better but almost like Im teetering on the edge of feeling good some days and feeling bad other days.

at 30 mg eod my bloodwork is
Total Testosterone 1257 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Testosterone (226 pg/mL (46-224)
Sensitive Estradiol 61 pgmL (< or = 29)

Here I feel amazing.. 0 anxiety, Perfect sleep, libido and erection quality, high energy, and I can actually wake up and get out of bed without feeling like Im wearing a weighted vest.

However my bloodwork is in supra physiological territory so this concerns me. I rn this dose for 8 months and got bloodwork. my hematocrit and hemoglobin were fine (45.6 HCT and 15.6 Hemoglobin). along with my other health markers. is it a bad idea to run my TRT this high?

Why did the range for free Test (a Constant) go up, at your highest dosage?

Free Testosterone (226 pg/mL (46-224)

 

[jiu jitsu]

Why did the range for free Test (a Constant) go up, at your highest dosage?

Got a discount for a TRT bloodwork package on Discounted labs. Was unaware that the Free Testosterone test had a different range until after the fact... unfortunately.

 

[Renew1]

Got a discount for a TRT bloodwork package on Discounted labs. Was unaware that the Free Testosterone test had a different range until after the fact... unfortunately.

Did you notice that your Estro went up each time you increased your Test?
Addressing that some might help how you feel.

But this is my thoughts on it, overall ...

People who drink alcohol, generally feel better drinking more than a recommended amount.

People taking Opiates or Benzos usually feel better taking higher than the recommended amount.

Lots of guys feel better on a cycle, than on TRT levels of Test only.

.... And some guys Never feel how they'd like to on TRT.

Most of us in this group tend to think in terms of "BETTER", rather than "ok".
But TRT is actually supposed to aim for "ok", because it is supposed to Try to bring us back to as close to normal as possible.

Normal isn't always a great feeling.
By definition, normal is Supposed to be divided between times of feeling good, feeling bad, and just feeling ok.

... Just some things to think about.
(Except the high Estro. That is something you could adjust, if you decide to).

 

[KvanH]

Did you notice that your Estro went up each time you increased your Test?
Addressing that some might help how you feel.

But this is my thoughts on it, overall ...

People who drink alcohol, generally feel better drinking more than a recommended amount.

People taking Opiates or Benzos usually feel better taking higher than the recommended amount.

Lots of guys feel better on a cycle, than on TRT levels of Test only.

.... And some guys Never feel how they'd like to on TRT.

Most of us in this group tend to think in terms of "BETTER", rather than "ok".
But TRT is actually supposed to aim for "ok", because it is supposed to Try to bring us back to as close to normal as possible.

Normal isn't always a great feeling.
By definition, normal is Supposed to be divided between times of feeling good, feeling bad, and just feeling ok.

... Just some things to think about.
(Except the high Estro. That is something you could adjust, if you decide to).

Great post!

 

[jiu jitsu]

Great post!

So ive tried a few dosing protocols and have a journal where I log the side effects after 6-12 weeks.

20mg eod puts me at
Total Testosterone 830 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Testosterone (151 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)
Sensitive Estradiol 27 pgmL (< or = 29)

I feel flat and low energy.. also irritable on this dose.. like a slightly better version of when I was hypogonadal pre testosterone, despite my bloodwork looking great . it sucks.

at 25mg eod My bloodwork is
Total Testosterone 907 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Testosterone (167 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)
Sensitive Estradiol 44 pgmL (< or = 29)

Feel a little better but almost like Im teetering on the edge of feeling good some days and feeling bad other days.

at 30 mg eod my bloodwork is
Total Testosterone 1257 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Testosterone (226 pg/mL (46-224)
Sensitive Estradiol 61 pgmL (< or = 29)

Here I feel amazing.. 0 anxiety, Perfect sleep, libido and erection quality, high energy, and I can actually wake up and get out of bed without feeling like Im wearing a weighted vest.

However my bloodwork is in supra physiological territory so this concerns me. I rn this dose for 8 months and got bloodwork. my hematocrit and hemoglobin were fine (45.6 HCT and 15.6 Hemoglobin). along with my other health markers. is it a bad idea to run my TRT this high?

While I agree, the key thing to note is that my erection quality was perfect at 30 mg eod.
For the other 2 doses it was mediocre and experienced a lack of sensation.

My theory is that I do better with an E2 reading of above 50, but I need higher T levels to achieve it. Another piece of evidence that supports this theory is the fact that When I was dosing twice a week back in the day, my Total T was 1300 ng/dL and my E2 was 40.. but my erection quality was awful. at 30 mg eod my Total T is 1200 and my E2 is 60, yet my erection quality is great.


Sorry If that's TMI

 

[Whisky]

Did you notice that your Estro went up each time you increased your Test?
Addressing that some might help how you feel.

But this is my thoughts on it, overall ...

People who drink alcohol, generally feel better drinking more than a recommended amount.

People taking Opiates or Benzos usually feel better taking higher than the recommended amount.

Lots of guys feel better on a cycle, than on TRT levels of Test only.

.... And some guys Never feel how they'd like to on TRT.

Most of us in this group tend to think in terms of "BETTER", rather than "ok".
But TRT is actually supposed to aim for "ok", because it is supposed to Try to bring us back to as close to normal as possible.

Normal isn't always a great feeling.
By definition, normal is Supposed to be divided between times of feeling good, feeling bad, and just feeling ok.

... Just some things to think about.
(Except the high Estro. That is something you could adjust, if you decide to).

this is a good post and I generally agree

however, to profer a slightly different view

I personally think the increase in estrogen rather than the increase in testosterone is the reason you feel better.

I don’t think you are far enough over range for that to be a concern from a health standpoint. I would be keeping close eye on blood work and BP but generally speaking i don’t think it’s an issue to sustain (my opinion, I’m no doctor, I would also personally accept a slightly hit on lifespan for health span)

 

[KvanH]

While I agree, the key thing to note is that my erection quality was perfect at 30 mg eod.
For the other 2 doses it was mediocre and experienced a lack of sensation.

My theory is that I do better with an E2 reading of above 50, but I need higher T levels to achieve it. Another piece of evidence that supports this theory is the fact that When I was dosing twice a week back in the day, my Total T was 1300 ng/dL and my E2 was 40.. but my erection quality was awful. at 30 mg eod my Total T is 1200 and my E2 is 60, yet my erection quality is great.


Sorry If that's TMI

I've thought that typically the more frequent the injections the lower the E2. I was going to suggest trying pinning less frequently for higher E2, but obviously works the other way around for you. Maybe if there's a healthy way to increase aromatization?

 

[Renew1]

this is a good post and I generally agree

however, to profer a slightly different view

I personally think the increase in estrogen rather than the increase in testosterone is the reason you feel better.

I don’t think you are far enough over range for that to be a concern from a health standpoint. I would be keeping close eye on blood work and BP but generally speaking i don’t think it’s an issue to sustain (my opinion, I’m no doctor, I would also personally accept a slightly hit on lifespan for health span)

That's certainly possible.
I've seen guys with slightly elevated (even in normal range) Estro, that struggled with how it affected them.
... And I've seen guys who do much better with higher Estro levels.

I certainly hope the higher Estrogen is what is giving him improvement. That is generally easier to achieve than High Test (with generally less complications).

 

[Jinsun]

I certainly hope the higher Estrogen is what is giving him improvement. That is generally easier to achieve than High Test (with generally less complications).

I really doubt it's the estrogen ... It's probably everything combined. But in regards to erection quality, that's for sure DHT.

However, the feel good hormones that you are probably missing (DHEA, progesterone) are produced in the gonads and you need LH (hcg) for that.

If I was on trt I would supplement with dhea, progesterone, or just use hcg. Also, you can use pregnenolone, as it's a prohormone to neurosteroids ...

 

[Jinsun]

I really doubt it's the estrogen ... It's probably everything combined. But in regards to erection quality, that's for sure DHT.

However, the feel good hormones that you are probably missing (DHEA, progesterone) are produced in the gonads and you need LH (hcg) for that.

If I was on trt I would supplement with dhea, progesterone, or just use hcg. Also, you can use pregnenolone, as it's a prohormone to neurosteroids ...

But in regards to dosage of test, damn, I just might be tempted for a slight cruise dose rather then a TRT dose hehe

 

[Renew1]

But in regards to dosage of test, damn, I just might be tempted for a slight cruise dose rather then a TRT dose hehe

.. Forever ?

 

[Jinsun]

I really doubt it's the estrogen ... It's probably everything combined. But in regards to erection quality, that's for sure DHT.

However, the feel good hormones that you are probably missing (DHEA, progesterone) are produced in the gonads and you need LH (hcg) for that.

If I was on trt I would supplement with dhea, progesterone, or just use hcg. Also, you can use pregnenolone, as it's a prohormone to neurosteroids ...

Oh, what I wanted to actually say was; if you are concerned about your health (also psychological health as neurosteroids affect mood and cognition), you should try either supplementing with these missing compounds or use hcg with a smaller, in the reference range, test dosage.

 

[Jinsun]

.. Forever ?

Yeah, idk, I would go off of by how I felt and what my bloods would look like. I would be really tempted to use something like 200 - 250 test for a long period, if I didnt feel like chit off course.