Unanswered I cannot decide between DMZ or Msten

aman88

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Going to either run 6 weeks DMZ at 50/50/50/50/50/50 or 4 weeks of Msten at 20/20/20/20. Both products by MediftRX. I have ran their DMAXXX before and it was legitimate. Got a PCT set up which will consist of Breakthrough Labs Balance (old formula) and Power +, Iron Legion Virtus, and either Clomid or Nolvadex.

I really cannot decide which of the two PH's to take, and if I should through in either Dermacrine or Androhard. I do not know if there is a point to throwing in Androhard to a DHT based PH like DMZ and Msten, but I am hesitant on Dermacrine since I will not take anything that can potentially be converted into estrogen such as DHEA and pregnolone.

Any thoughtful input helps! I am also willing to log both cycles on here...
 

aman88

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Yeah that is what I noticed... strength shot up, but I retained a lot of water/ glycogen weight... would there be any point to stacking androhard with msten? I hear all this about either a test base (which I won't use 4 andro) or adding epi to help with libido and lethargy.
 

aman88

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Msten Will be superior in every single aspect.
Will the sides be worse? DMZ was mild sides... slight lethargy, slight loss of libido (everything still worked great, desire was less, but probably still average for a male my age).
 

Mathb33

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Will the sides be worse? DMZ was mild sides... slight lethargy, slight loss of libido (everything still worked great, desire was less, but probably still average for a male my age).
With these compounds.. dmz,msten,m1a etc it’s different from a person to another and I could even say it’s different every cycles. Msten is usually concidered mild on sides like dmz. Even tho someone could have horrible sides on dmz and none on msten and vice versa.
 

jrock645

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In before the tbigt comments.
Ill vouch for sustain alpha all day long. And dermacrine may well have other viable uses but it didn't do anything for me as a “test base.”
 

jusstinnn

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You could use CEL’s Stano-Plex 300 or Gainbusters Bomb Squad as a test base to help combat sides.
 

WeakerNU

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I have also been trying to decide on which cycle to go with. Dmz m1a or msten I’m trying to find anything on which is “less” hepatoxic if one is? Seen some friends just go low dose on these and have zero issues maybe moderation is the key.
 

Mathb33

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I have also been trying to decide on which cycle to go with. Dmz m1a or msten I’m trying to find anything on which is “less” hepatoxic if one is? Seen some friends just go low dose on these and have zero issues maybe moderation is the key.
I mean you’re kinda comparing green apples to red apples atm.
 

aman88

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Ill vouch for sustain alpha all day long. And dermacrine may well have other viable uses but it didn't do anything for me as a “test base.”
I was going to run iron legion virtus with it... or andro hard... but I was not sure if 3 dht prohormones (andro, epi andro, and msten) was overkill?
 

jrock645

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I was going to run iron legion virtus with it... or andro hard... but I was not sure if 3 dht prohormones (andro, epi andro, and msten) was overkill?
I think andro and epiandro would just be a waste of money next to msten. Im not a real believer in these andros serving as a test base. Effective doses of them are expensive to run. If you want a “test base” then pin test. Period.

And virtus is an AI, you realize that right? You wouldnt need that with msten, only after a couple weeks into pct.

And as far as stacking multiple dht’s being overboard... yes it can be, but that scenario doesnt really count when 2 of the 3 are andros imo.
 

aman88

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I think andro and epiandro would just be a waste of money next to msten. Im not a real believer in these andros serving as a test base. Effective doses of them are expensive to run. If you want a “test base” then pin test. Period.

And virtus is an AI, you realize that right? You wouldnt need that with msten, only after a couple weeks into pct.

And as far as stacking multiple dht’s being overboard... yes it can be, but that scenario doesnt really count when 2 of the 3 are andros imo.
Interesting... I always felt the andros to be weak... The only PH's I ever can say I NOTICED were epistane (my favorite) and then DMZ. I will keep the virtus on hand in case of weird sides, but you are right it "technically" should not be needed on a dry dht PH.
 
Tsteele60

Tsteele60

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In on this as well. Finishing an andro cycle and am looking to plan out my next one in 4 months
 

SwoleMax

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I am about to pull the trigger as I can get medfit rx winswole (msten) for $68 currently... any more input?
There is way cheaper options for price per milligram on Msten than Medfit's version , my friend. Hardcore Sports Nutrition ( also know as Anabolic Technoligies and maybe one other name ) is 90 pills at 6 mg, but works great for around 38 bucks on Ebay . There's the liquid too which is usually a much better price than Medfit's too . Aggressive Labs Msten is GTG and a better price too . The liquid I've tried and liked is by Synergy Research Chems . Why not go with a DMZ Msten mix ???
 
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aman88

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I went with medfitrx msten because their DMZ worked and they seemed to be legit. Not saying the brands you said do not, I just did not know they existed and purchased the msten already lol. As for mixing them, I considered it, I could run 25 mg of DMZ/ day alongside the 20 mg or msten (I have 30 25 mg tablets left over).
 
Tsteele60

Tsteele60

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Same,...Man after this first one, seems hard to wait
Haha for sure, I’m not sure what I want to try next. Gotta be an oral unfortunately. I have an issue with pinning and passing out. Some subconscious thing, so that’s out of the question sadly.
 

Chrisbenches

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Haha for sure, I’m not sure what I want to try next. Gotta be an oral unfortunately. I have an issue with pinning and passing out. Some subconscious thing, so that’s out of the question sadly.
Get a friend to pin you instead?
 
Tsteele60

Tsteele60

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Get a friend to pin you instead?
I wish, even vaccinations at the doctors and stuff makes me pass out... it’s so weird, I found this out when I got a shot and made out to the parking lot after. Then 20 minutes later, I woke up on the pavement in an empty parking spot in the rain. Was a really scary situation tbh
 
Matthersby

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There’s no choice for me.
DMZ is like the goofy little brother of msten that follows him around too much.
Msten at 20 smokes DMZ at any dose.




But DMZ is a bit easier/milder
 

aman88

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There’s no choice for me.
DMZ is like the goofy little brother of msten that follows him around too much.
Msten at 20 smokes DMZ at any dose.




But DMZ is a bit easier/milder
Interesting... I did not have harsh side effects on DMZ... mild lethargy was about it. I bounced back quick too... does that mean msten is going to be worse? lol.
 

jusstinnn

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Interesting... I did not have harsh side effects on DMZ... mild lethargy was about it. I bounced back quick too... does that mean msten is going to be worse? lol.
I’m on day 6 of DMZ & M-Sten and the only side I’ve experienced so far is mild nausea. It’s pretty tolerable at the moment but if it gets any worse I’ll just get some Zofran to counter it.
 

aman88

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I’m on day 6 of DMZ & M-Sten and the only side I’ve experienced so far is mild nausea. It’s pretty tolerable at the moment but if it gets any worse I’ll just get some Zofran to counter it.
how man mg of each?
 

aman88

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45mg of DMZ & 20mg of M-Sten.
I am doing the 20 mg of msten... may throw 25 mg of dmz into the mix as I have that left over... but I kind of want to see what msten can do on its own. How much of your gainz (size, strength) did you keep after going off?
 

jusstinnn

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I am doing the 20 mg of msten... may throw 25 mg of dmz into the mix as I have that left over... but I kind of want to see what msten can do on its own. How much of your gainz (size, strength) did you keep after going off?
I’m only on day 6 of my DMZ & M-Sten cycle currently. So far it’s nice. I’m enjoying the muscle fullness and pumps I get.
 

WeakerNU

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Whats pct you will be using sir? Will you be doing a log on your cycle? what your guys thoughts on using a mix of nolva and clomid 10/25 for 4-6 weeks and letrone beginning week 2? Thinking of the mix because all I will be able to use is research c h em? Thanks
 

jrock645

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Whats pct you will be using sir? Will you be doing a log on your cycle? what your guys thoughts on using a mix of nolva and clomid 10/25 for 4-6 weeks and letrone beginning week 2? Thinking of the mix because all I will be able to use is research c h em? Thanks
You can definitely com one nolva and Clomid for pct, though I start with higher dosages than that and taper down.
 

WeakerNU

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You can definitely com one nolva and Clomid for pct, though I start with higher dosages than that and taper down.
How high would you start? I know most have said 20/20/10/10 nolva and 50/50/25/25 clomid. Now if you combine them would a lower dose of both make sense? Or would 50/10 clomid and nolva make more sense? I was thinking of getting the two serms from our 2 different board sponsors lessen change of any mishaps on both serms. Thanks guys
 

jrock645

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How high would you start? I know most have said 20/20/10/10 nolva and 50/50/25/25 clomid. Now if you combine them would a lower dose of both make sense? Or would 50/10 clomid and nolva make more sense? I was thinking of getting the two serms from our 2 different board sponsors lessen change of any mishaps on both serms. Thanks guys
I usually still do those same dosages even when combined. Add two weeks of nolva at 10mg and Clomid eod at 25.
 

WeakerNU

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I usually still do those same dosages even when combined. Add two weeks of nolva at 10mg and Clomid eod at 25.
Ok so nolva 20/20/10/10 eod10/10 and clomid 50/50/25/25 eod 25/25. When would anyone suggest adding a ai? Letrone maybe from 2nd week pct till end? Thanks again
 

jrock645

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Ok so nolva 20/20/10/10 eod10/10 and clomid 50/50/25/25 eod 25/25. When would anyone suggest adding a ai? Letrone maybe from 2nd week pct till end? Thanks again
Stay with 10mg per day on the nolva. Just go to eod on the Clomid.

It’s usually suggested to add the AI in week 3. No reason to add it sooner since there’s no test to aromatize anyway. Run the AI a couple weeks past the serm.
 
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Renew1

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How high would you start? I know most have said 20/20/10/10 nolva and 50/50/25/25 clomid. Now if you combine them would a lower dose of both make sense? Or would 50/10 clomid and nolva make more sense? I was thinking of getting the two serms from our 2 different board sponsors lessen change of any mishaps on both serms. Thanks guys
If you are getting your SERMS from PRE and MAR (board sponsors), they will both be top notch.

There's no need to dose them sky high IMO. Jrock's suggestion would work fine.
 

WeakerNU

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Stay with 10mg per day on the nolva. Just go to eod on the Clomid.

It’s usually suggested to add the AI in week 3. No reason to add it sooner since there’s no test to aromatize anyway. Run the AI a couple weeks past the serm.
Sorry didn’t see one of the earlier post. And thanks for the help.
 

aman88

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nolva 20mg per week plus OTC AI and Test Boosters. With DMZ last time that worked fine... I rebounded really quick... I even did I think more like 10-15mg of nolva maybe 4-5 days a week on average over 4 weeks because I would forget to take it since it is a liquid lol... honestly... after that cycle (DMZ 50 mg for 6 weeks) I felt the OTC would have completely sufficed... not suggesting it, just my personal experience since I did such a low dose of nolva not consistently.
 
Matthersby

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I usually still do those same dosages even when combined. Add two weeks of nolva at 10mg and Clomid eod at 25.
I haven’t had bad experiences over-serming.
Just better recovery.
I second this for many reasons, number one assuming your RC is underdosed.
Number two because recovery is important. Seems like no big deal but you’ll always wished you spent a little more money or planned a little better when you are struggling to perform in bed, or have massive depression, or are watching your lifts drop every workout.
Best PCTs I’ve had are the ones where my serms were giving side effects - made gains through them and lost very little.
20/20/10/10 Nolva would be a guaranteed way not to recover for shyt after a 12 week run at 30+ years old. I’d rather pct like someone that’s coming off a motherfucker of a cycle, even if it’s just a 4 week oral run. You never know.
 

jrock645

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I haven’t had bad experiences over-serming.
Just better recovery.
I second this for many reasons, number one assuming your RC is underdosed.
Number two because recovery is important. Seems like no big deal but you’ll always wished you spent a little more money or planned a little better when you are struggling to perform in bed, or have massive depression, or are watching your lifts drop every workout.
Best PCTs I’ve had are the ones where my serms were giving side effects - made gains through them and lost very little.
20/20/10/10 Nolva would be a guaranteed way not to recover for shyt after a 12 week run at 30+ years old. I’d rather pct like someone that’s coming off a motherfucker of a cycle, even if it’s just a 4 week oral run. You never know.
Yeah, I actually usually do 40 on the nolva the first week, and run 100 on the Clomid the first few days. PCT isn’t the time to screw around. The idea of less is more doesn’t fit in pct.
 

WeakerNU

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So I’ve read some study’s on Nolva and clomid being used as low t boosters on men in there 40-60’s. For up to 6 months at a time. Are there any down sides to pushing pct 6-8 weeks
 
Segansational

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I went with medfitrx msten because their DMZ worked and they seemed to be legit. Not saying the brands you said do not, I just did not know they existed and purchased the msten already lol. As for mixing them, I considered it, I could run 25 mg of DMZ/ day alongside the 20 mg or msten (I have 30 25 mg tablets left over).
You gonna log it OP?
 
GQdaLEGEND

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Run Stano-Plex for 8 weeks then bridge into either dmz or msten .. imo would make it a lot easier

I’ve never ran either one but have followed many logs and both are hardcore stuff

I know they stack well too *wink wink* lol
 

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