I Am Addicted To Metformin?!

[KingErgogenic]

So many of you probably already know who I am, but for those who don't, I am that guy who maxed his Testosterone naturally:

You can check my thread on it here:
I Made My Testosterone Off The Scale High - Men's Health

Anyway, getting to the point of this post.

I started taking metformin after (ab)using Cyproheptadine for many months.

I first started dosing at 500mg XR form, usually with my biggest carb meal in the evenings.

I didn't really notice much at the start, apart from slightly reduced appetite.

2 weeks later these are the key effects I had noticed from
regularly taking 250mg-500mg of XR Metformin whilst on a high carb diet:
-INSANE muscle pumps, to the point of almost feeling like veins were gonna pop.
-Improved gym performance.
-Leaner physique.
-Reduced appetite.
-Better cortisol awakening response (Did you know that metformin can do what licorice does with cortisol?)
-Easier to fast if I had to.

Obviously I am aware of the side effects of metformin use:
-B12 Deficiency (Currently supplementing to offset)
-Homocysteine issues (Taurine to offset)
-Raises cortisol (I need this).

But what makes me feel "Addicted to it"


THE PUMPS!!!

No other GDA has come close. If anyone has any other natural botanical or any other compound that can match this I will be impressed.


Cheers.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

That's a great write up. I have heard metformin has many benefits like these for athletes, but haven't seen many log on it.

I've also read that it can tremendously with IBS and IBS-C specifically which interested me.

Any side effects that interfere with your day?

 

[justhere4comm]

Metformin is a prescription drug
What's your point?

 

[Iwilleattuna]

Metformin is a prescription drug
What's your point?

I think they have considered making it OTC.

Also, it hasn't happened yet, but cialis was suppose to be made OTC.

 

[KingErgogenic]

Metformin is a prescription drug
What's your point?

I am trying to find a standalone GDA (Not a blend of ingredients) that can somewhat match this effect.

I have CINSULIN and Cinnulin PF - and these are good, but not quite matching the intensity of the pumps

Open to suggestions man. I dislike Berberine, as that fu**s with 5-HT1a receptor and can cause emotional blunting/PSSD symptoms similar to Ashwagandha.

Ashwagandha Can Cause Anhedonia, PSSD, Blunted Emotions and Apathy.

I wanted to write this blog to WARN people, and PROTECT more humans from being negatively affected by KSM-66.

medium.com

 

[Iwilleattuna]

I am trying to find a standalone GDA (Not a blend of ingredients) that can somewhat match this effect.

I have CINSULIN and Cinnulin PF - and these are good, but not quite matching the intensity of the pumps

Open to suggestions man. I dislike Berberine, as that fu**s with 5-HT1a receptor and can cause emotional blunting/PSSD symptoms similar to Ashwagandha.

Ashwagandha Can Cause Anhedonia, PSSD, Blunted Emotions and Apathy.

I wanted to write this blog to WARN people, and PROTECT more humans from being negatively affected by KSM-66.

medium.com

Yep Ashwaghanda does the same thing to me. I hate it and it makes me feel like death. Sedated, lethargic dream state feeling , yet my heart is racing and anxiety is high. I also feel like I can't think on it and it blunts my mind. However , it truly does change your body composition.

 

[KingErgogenic]

That's a great write up. I have heard metformin has many benefits like these for athletes, but haven't seen many log on it.

I've also read that it can tremendously with IBS and IBS-C specifically which interested me.

Any side effects that interfere with your day?

Thanks mate.

Well, actually too much will give ya crazy diarrhoea.

No other side effects I've noticed at all man. Possibly earlier than normal wake-ups (Better cortisol awakening response).

Also, I did combine it with D-Ribose and did notice hypoglycaemia one time, no fun!

 

[justhere4comm]

Berberine.

 

[johnny412]

Yep Ashwaghanda does the same thing to me. I hate it and it makes me feel like death. Sedated, lethargic dream state feeling , yet my heart is racing and anxiety is high. I also feel like I can't think on it and it blunts my mind. However , it truly does change your body composition.

ashwaganda changes your body composition???

 

[KingErgogenic]

Berberine.

Are you aware that Berberine is also a Dopamine D2 antagonist, similar to anti-psychotics?

It's also an Iron chelator, and thus can contribute to anaemia.

 

[justhere4comm]

Metformin and berberine, two versatile drugs in treatment of common metabolic diseases

Metformin has been used as a glucose lowering drug for several centuries and is now a first-line drug for type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM). Since the discovery that it activates AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) and reduces risk of cancer, metformin ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I know it’s as good or better.
So. Let’s cut to the chase.

What are you selling?

 

[Iwilleattuna]

ashwaganda changes your body composition???

minimal changes but I notice slight recomp

seems to have a drying effect too

 

[The Express 42]

Metformin is a prescription drug
What's your point?

Because no one here uses prescription drugs without a prescription

 

[justhere4comm]

Because no one here uses prescription drugs without a prescription

I may have been a bit 'judgy' I can admit that.
I'm not fond of him using a company logo for his avatar and not being a board sponsor.
()

Metformin can't be just cycled.
You have to use it long-term or you will lose it's benefits.
There are others, but carry on with the discussion.

Do you have anything to add? Or did you just want to call me out?
Carry on.

 

[ironkill]

I'm concerned about its potential to blunt the hermetic effect of exercise. Even guys like David Sinclair avoid it mostly due to this reason. And those guys don't concern themselves with lots of muscle. Did hear Ben kapulski said he takes it at night and his performance didn't decrease as much as during the day. Taking it in the morn drastically reduced his performance

 

[DieselNY]

I am trying to find a standalone GDA (Not a blend of ingredients) that can somewhat match this effect.

Here you go. Search no more.

www.Glucosatrol.com

 

[justhere4comm]

6 caps per serving on top of other things daily?
Nope.

On a positive note: That has just about everything in it. lol. I mean everything...

 

[DieselNY]

6 caps per serving on top of other things daily?
Nope.

On a positive note: That has just about everything in it. lol. I mean everything...

Lol 6 caps yes. There are so many ingredients that's how many caps you need. Its like 4300mg of active ingredients!! May as well make it a powder drink lol. But youd vomit if you tasted gynostemma pentaphyllum and berberine powder.

 

[justhere4comm]

Lol 6 caps yes. There are so many ingredients that's how many caps you need. Its like 4300mg of active ingredients!! May as well make it a powder drink lol. But youd vomit if you tasted gynostemma pentaphyllum and berberine powder.

The most bitter thing on the planet earth besides berberine, is Tudca. Agreed.
I'm still going to look at that product. I hate you.

 

[justhere4comm]

Oh, I have a script for metformin...

 

[justhere4comm]

As long as we're on this whole metformin discussion.
What about peptides? A lot of intersting peptides out there.

 

[DieselNY]

As long as we're on this whole metformin discussion.
What about peptides? A lot of intersting peptides out there.

I'm not a fan of most of them. They seem to work but I dont trust the quality and sterility.

 

[poison]

6 caps per serving on top of other things daily?
Nope.

On a positive note: That has just about everything in it. lol. I mean everything...

If you want to see a kitchen sink formula, that's a kitchen sink formula.

 

[SweetLou321]

I'm concerned about its potential to blunt the hermetic effect of exercise. Even guys like David Sinclair avoid it mostly due to this reason. And those guys don't concern themselves with lots of muscle. Did hear Ben kapulski said he takes it at night and his performance didn't decrease as much as during the day. Taking it in the morn drastically reduced his performance

The research really is not clear if this is the case atm. If you want to be extra safe, just avoid it and keep your glucose metabolism under control through diet and exercise.

 

[DieselNY]

I'm concerned about its potential to blunt the hermetic effect of exercise. Even guys like David Sinclair avoid it mostly due to this reason. And those guys don't concern themselves with lots of muscle. Did hear Ben kapulski said he takes it at night and his performance didn't decrease as much as during the day. Taking it in the morn drastically reduced his performance

It should be a non issue if you are triggering mTOR via lifting and adequate amino acid intake.

Muscle wasting from AMPk is way overblown. (Metformin and Berberine stimulate AMPK)...Think about it, one of the best ways to increase AMPk is exercise. Are you worried about exercise causing muscle loss?

 

[ironkill]

It should be a non issue if you are triggering mTOR via lifting and adequate amino acid intake.

Muscle wasting from AMPk is way overblown. (Metformin and Berberine stimulate AMPK)...Think about it, one of the best ways to increase AMPk is exercise. Are you worried about exercise causing muscle loss?

It blunts the adaptation to exercise so ya, I'd be worried about that. Wouldn't be worried about muscle wasting, never said anything about that.
I'd rather stimulate AMPK through exercise, fasting, fisetin, quercetin, Pterostilbene, ellagic acid, green tea, etc. Why bust ass in the gym and not get the max results? It blunts mtorc1.

 

[DieselNY]

It blunts the adaptation to exercise so ya, I'd be worried about that. Wouldn't be worried about muscle wasting, never said anything about that.
I'd rather stimulate AMPK through exercise, fasting, fisetin, quercetin, Pterostilbene, ellagic acid, green tea, etc. Why bust ass in the gym and not get the max results? It blunts mtorc1.

Again no need to fear it, its mostly internet rumors.

Metformin activates an isoform of AMPK which is NOT inhibitory to mTORC1:

Regulation of mTORC1 by growth factors, energy status, amino acids and mechanical stimuli at a glance - Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition

The mechanistic/mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1 (mTORC1) plays a pivotal role in the regulation of skeletal muscle protein synthesis. Activation of the complex leads to phosphorylation of two important sets of substrates, namely eIF4E binding proteins and ribosomal S6 kinases...

jissn.biomedcentral.com

"Additionally, only the α1-containing heterotrimer appears to attenuate muscle growth, whereas the α2-containing heterotrimers do not appear to do so [60]."
It activates an a2-containing one in skeletal muscle, which is involved in (glucose) metabolism, and not inhibitory to mTORC1.


I've been taking metformin for 5 yesrs and GDA's supplements for over decades and I can tell you after adding Metformin I see zero negative in my physique development. Obvious this is an n=1 but if I saw even a hair of negative I'd freak out and stop. Have not and only seen good things especially with carbohydrate tolerance.

 

[ironkill]

I’ve seen studies in journals that say it does, not rumours. I don’t go by rumour. Or n=1 for that matter. I also don’t fear it, that’s a little much.

It’s hard to say your physique wouldn’t be better without it. Hardly possible to speculate on that. But anyway, the info is out there and we are free to use it how we feel is best. You’re a big dude so obviously know hat works for you. All the best

 

[Derek Wilson]

I heard a lot about metformin. Thanks for your writing.

 

[cybercrombie]

Did I read the OP correctly that Metformin increases cortisol? If so, any idea if berberine does as well? A cursory Google was not much help.

 

[DieselNY]

Did I read the OP correctly that Metformin increases cortisol? If so, any idea if berberine does as well? A cursory Google was not much help.

Metformin use is rampant among bodybuilders. Don't worry its fine.

 

[SweetLou321]

Again no need to fear it, its mostly internet rumors.

Metformin activates an isoform of AMPK which is NOT inhibitory to mTORC1:

Regulation of mTORC1 by growth factors, energy status, amino acids and mechanical stimuli at a glance - Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition

The mechanistic/mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1 (mTORC1) plays a pivotal role in the regulation of skeletal muscle protein synthesis. Activation of the complex leads to phosphorylation of two important sets of substrates, namely eIF4E binding proteins and ribosomal S6 kinases...

jissn.biomedcentral.com

"Additionally, only the α1-containing heterotrimer appears to attenuate muscle growth, whereas the α2-containing heterotrimers do not appear to do so [60]."
It activates an a2-containing one in skeletal muscle, which is involved in (glucose) metabolism, and not inhibitory to mTORC1.


I've been taking metformin for 5 yesrs and GDA's supplements for over decades and I can tell you after adding Metformin I see zero negative in my physique development. Obvious this is an n=1 but if I saw even a hair of negative I'd freak out and stop. Have not and only seen good things especially with carbohydrate tolerance.

The possibility of metformin worsening outcomes from various exercise modalities is very real.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6351883/

In the study above, some people responded to better to metformin plus aerobic exercise while some others responded much worse compared to aerobic exercise alone. This is surprising as one would speculate the combination of AMPK stimulation with aerobic exercise to be additive. In fact, the mean results are that Metformin inhibits mitochondrial adaptations to aerobic exercise training in older adults and thus the glucose metabolism benefits of aerobic exercise. It also blunted improvements in VO2 max. It is worth noting again, this is the mean result and some responded better. We do not know what causes one to respond better or worse to aerobic exercise plus metformin. Also this is in older adult, who tend to have lower AMPK activity so we would usually expect the benefits to be more pronounced in this population group and the negatives to be less overall. Mitochondrial protein synthesis rates where not different between modalities.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acel.13039

In the study above, metformin resulted in less thigh mass in older adults who started resistance exercise when compared to resistance exercise alone. There was a trend for less strength gains as well. They did culture for AMPK and mTORC1 activity as well, after prolonged use metformin lead to constantly higher AMPK activity and lower mTORC1. They also saw that metformin prevent fiber type switch from type I to type II. So the participants were left with more type I fibers at the end of the study when they took metformin. This is all characteristic of AMPK stimulation btw. The older adults did get over 1.2g/kg bw of protein per day. It is worth noting that the exercise program had a static amount of hard sets and if they tailored the amount of hard sets to one's recovery ability I am not sure this study would have been as negative as it was. Type I fibers are more fatigue resistant and typically require more volume to get the same stimulation as type II fibers. Type I fibers might not have as much hypertrophy potential as type II fibers long-term so in the short term if volume needs are addressed based on fiber types I doubt you would see much of a difference where in the long-term this may still be a factor due to fiber composition difference. This was in older adults so it does bring some compounding factors with it as they may have lower AMPK activity they also tend to be anabolic resistance and have lower muscle mTOR activity. There are many factors that could impactful here so its really hard to tell what may happen if muscle mTOR activity was prioritized in a future study.

In conclusion, metformin can certainly impact you gains in aerobic fitness and the adaptations to aerobic exercise. It is very possible it can have the same effects on mitochondrial adaptations to resistance exercise as well since they can be similar to aerobic exercise. The effects on muscle tissue may be overcame with dedicated practices to increase muscle specific mTOR activity and increasing volume to accommodate fiber type changes. The question then comes back to why even use metformin in the first place? The upsides seem pretty low for a younger population who should just exercise and control their diet to manage glucose metabolism. Given berberine is similar to potency in metformin, you may be able to extrapolate the results to it as well. This all matters if the results you get from exercise are one of your top priorities.

 

[SweetLou321]

Did I read the OP correctly that Metformin increases cortisol? If so, any idea if berberine does as well? A cursory Google was not much help.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22739410

"Cortisol, calcitriol, ACTH, TSH, FT4, and SHBG levels were not significantly changed following 12 weeks of berberine treatment."

Second link on google btw.

 

[soxbsbll05]

Try finding a product that contains dihydroberberine

 

[bigdadybry]

The last I researched Metformin almost all studies were performed on people who needed it, had pre-existing conditions. Glad to see there are studies on relatively healthy adults now, which is what most on this forum are and what I assume we'd benefit from. I'll need to read up on it now, sound interesting.

When I used it 2 decades ago, I would use it to lessen the affects of high carb cheat days and to get back into ketosis quicker. My only fear while using it was lactic acidosis, because I was not going to alter my drinking habits at the time. Tried the stronger version too, Phenformin. Didn't like it.

Thanks for the info.

 

[cybercrombie]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22739410

"Cortisol, calcitriol, ACTH, TSH, FT4, and SHBG levels were not significantly changed following 12 weeks of berberine treatment."

Second link on google btw.

Thank you, it appears I did not understand the OP regarding cortisol. And it was a veryyy cursory google search on my part.

 

[Resolve10]

Try finding a product that contains dihydroberberine

Genius Blood Sugar Support offers this (Glucovantage) at 170mg per serving and Cinnamon extract. I found that as effective as higher dosed Berberine (as measured in my super non-scientific blood sugar testing).

I find Berberine is worth the trade offs of possible blunting of MTOR and haven't had any major differences in training between when using and not, but I understand the position so I should get out of this thread with all the science before I convince myself it'll hurt.

Lou keep up the good work though, I love your posts.

 

[SweetLou321]

Genius Blood Sugar Support offers this (Glucovantage) at 170mg per serving and Cinnamon extract. I found that as effective as higher dosed Berberine (as measured in my super non-scientific blood sugar testing).

I find Berberine is worth the trade offs of possible blunting of MTOR and haven't had any major differences in training between when using and not, but I understand the position so I should get out of this thread with all the science before I convince myself it'll hurt.

Lou keep up the good work though, I love your posts.

Berberine can still have some upsides depending on context. It seems to do a good job of inhibiting fat growth through multiple gene related pathways and pushes glucose metabolism more so in muscle tissue. This is somewhat unique to berberine and ideal for body comp purposes. Metformin does not seem to provide the same value:

https://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/55/8/2256

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22019891

 

[KingErgogenic]

Did I read the OP correctly that Metformin increases cortisol? If so, any idea if berberine does as well? A cursory Google was not much help.

Yes, Metformin does raise cortisol, which is what I want. My cortisol is too low.

Metformin Increases Cortisol Regeneration by 11βHSD1 in Obese Men With and Without Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus - PubMed

Metformin increases whole-body cortisol generation by 11βHSD1 probably through an indirect mechanism, potentially offsetting other metabolic benefits of metformin. Co-prescription with metformin should provide a greater target for selective 11βHSD1 inhibitors.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[The Express 42]

I may have been a bit 'judgy' I can admit that.
I'm not fond of him using a company logo for his avatar and not being a board sponsor.
()

Metformin can't be just cycled.
You have to use it long-term or you will lose it's benefits.
There are others, but carry on with the discussion.

Do you have anything to add? Or did you just want to call me out?
Carry on.

Just wanted to call you out haha but yeah I prefer Berberine to Metformin

 

[cybercrombie]

Yes, Metformin does raise cortisol, which is what I want. My cortisol is too low.

Metformin Increases Cortisol Regeneration by 11βHSD1 in Obese Men With and Without Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus - PubMed

Metformin increases whole-body cortisol generation by 11βHSD1 probably through an indirect mechanism, potentially offsetting other metabolic benefits of metformin. Co-prescription with metformin should provide a greater target for selective 11βHSD1 inhibitors.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Whoa, good info. Thanks!

 

[Smont]

I am trying to find a standalone GDA (Not a blend of ingredients) that can somewhat match this effect.

I have CINSULIN and Cinnulin PF - and these are good, but not quite matching the intensity of the pumps

Open to suggestions man. I dislike Berberine, as that fu**s with 5-HT1a receptor and can cause emotional blunting/PSSD symptoms similar to Ashwagandha.

Ashwagandha Can Cause Anhedonia, PSSD, Blunted Emotions and Apathy.

I wanted to write this blog to WARN people, and PROTECT more humans from being negatively affected by KSM-66.

medium.com

Berberine

 

[Smont]

Berberine.

You beat me to it

 

[Smont]

Did I read the OP correctly that Metformin increases cortisol? If so, any idea if berberine does as well? A cursory Google was not much help.

Getting in a argument raises cortisol, feeling stressed raises cortisol, ejaculation increases cortisol. While cortisol is "bad" for building muscle, none of these things are going to bring your gains to a screeching hault and metformin won't either. Unless your just super stressed out to the point you can't function, wacking it 12xday and taking metformin. Ya that might slow down your gains but at that point you got bigger problems

 

[Jrizzy50.]

I need some meta form in who’s got it?

 

[justhere4comm]

I need some meta form in who’s got it?

You signed up for an account here and checked a box stating you read the rules.
You didn't.
No sourcing.

 

[Smont]

I need some meta form in who’s got it?

No sourcing illegal drugs, if it's not otc or from a research site then don't ask where to get it

 

[Jrizzy50.]

No sourcing illegal drugs, if it's not otc or from a research site then don't ask where to get it

My bad delete I meant otc version

 

[Jrizzy50.]

What’s best alternative??

 

[Jrizzy50.]

Sorry delete