Hypogonadal male's first cycle

[singingman]

Hey,
After 2 years of being suppressed from anorexia, I've finally decided to take the step. Since TRT is impossible to get (and if you get it, you get test undecanoate every 4 months) I thought about starting my first cycle. I've felt like **** since losing weight, no energy, no libido and muscle building potential is highly impaired.
So for my first time, I was thinking about taking 600mg test E per week split into 2 dosages with some sort of an AI for 12 weeks. The reason why I want to take 600 instead of 500 is because my current test levels are 190ng/dL, so I would add an extra 100 to bring it to where it should be and the 500 would be a cycle dose. I am unsure about the AI dosage, I will be doing bloodwork regularly (pre, mid and after) but still don't want to burden my body by having a crashed/too much estrogen.
I've been training for 2 years and even though I have not gained much muslce (I would say i gained around 10lbs due to having no test) i know exactly how to train and eat (I am also studying physiotherapy so I have some knowledge from that too).
I am 20, sitting at 5'10 and weigh a measly 150lbs (went from 190 to 127 in 6 months, kept the weight for about 2 months and then slowly bulked my way to where I am).
I would love to hear any suggestions, comments, ideas and critiques from you.
This was my physique 2 months ago (still @ the same weight) and expectedly didn't change much since then.

 

[Carnivorecon]

If i were you i would use a more conservative dose, one which needs no a.i. your reasoning of adding extra 100 to get you up from 190 to normal is incorrect, you wont produce any test on cycle you will be shutdown, 125mg/week i believe puts most in high normal range so you being on 600 would be way way over. I would say start at 300 a week no a.i. and watch for high E symptoms. See how your body reacts to that, at your weight and experience i really think you could make good gains whilst minimising the sides on that dose

 

[bad rad]

What are you LH/FSH levels? Have you tried restarting your HPTA? As for cycle dosing I'd start with 250-300mg weekly. People underestimate the power of accurately dosed test.

 

[KvanH]

I agree with the above. I would've said to start with 350 mg a week. And what your T levels are now don't have anything to do with the dose you're going to cycle with.

So you are going to cruise on self administered trt after the cycle, right? Cause' if you feel shitty now, you'll definitely feel shitty after the cycle, if you try to pct. I would personally have the cruise dose dialed in and get accustomed to the cruising first and after that jump to cycle, so the transition when steppind down to cruise is more smooth and with less variables to think through.

 

[singingman]

What are you LH/FSH levels? Have you tried restarting your HPTA? As for cycle dosing I'd start with 250-300mg weekly. People underestimate the power of accurately dosed test.

My LH is at 1,3 IU/L, my FSH wasn't tested for some reason (even though the bloodwork was supposed to be very comprehensive). I've taken nolva for 3 weeks before the bloodwork in hopes of producing more T but that seems to not be the case

 

[singingman]

I agree with the above. I would've said to start with 350 mg a week. And what your T levels are now don't have anything to do with the dose you're going to cycle with.

So you are going to cruise on self administered trt after the cycle, right? Cause' if you feel shitty now, you'll definitely feel shitty after the cycle, if you try to pct. I would personally have the cruise dose dialed in and get accustomed to the cruising first and after that jump to cycle, so the transition when steppind down to cruise is more smooth and with less variables to think through.

Ah, now that i think about it i realised my T doesn't really matter lol. In the PCT i would include HcG or even HMG if i get it along clomid or enclomiphene. I will try the 350mg first, thank you.

 

[bad rad]

Nolva works but Clomid has a better track record for jump starting the HPTA. Don't go overboard on dosing with any of these things since you never know how you'll react. I'm still a lower dose guy 20 yrs later.

 

[CroLifter]

5'10 150 is thin but not anorexic.

I would try to restart natural test. Clomid and then test booster.

if you wanna cycle 600mg test is too much. Srs too many sides i was bloated like a bubbke red face high blood pressure. 250-300mg and then add sth short acting towads the end when gains slow down.


I had less sides with a low dose tren ace and trt test. Not saying tren is good for you but reasonable combo is better than that much test.

 

[singingman]

Nolva works but Clomid has a better track record for jump starting the HPTA. Don't go overboard on dosing with any of these things since you never know how you'll react. I'm still a lower dose guy 20 yrs later.

I was taking 20mg and tapering to 10mg the last week to avoid rebound gyno. Will go to clomid zhe next time, thank you.

5'10 150 is thin but not anorexic.

I would try to restart natural test. Clomid and then test booster.

if you wanna cycle 600mg test is too much. Srs too many sides i was bloated like a bubbke red face high blood pressure. 250-300mg and then add sth short acting towads the end when gains slow down.


I had less sides with a low dose tren ace and trt test. Not saying tren is good for you but reasonable combo is better than that much test.

At my lowest I was weighing 127 lbs (pics below this post). Don't think I will take tren on my first cycle but might consider an oral (with liver support ofc), we'll see.

 

[Hyde]

I agree with everything said above, but would just like to add that I would consider waiting until you are 21. Another 6+ months would actually like 25% more training & diet history. And a little more time to read up on AIs and PCT.

I am not telling you not to cycle. You are lean enough, have put on some great muscle naturally, you are an adult that can make your own decisions and don’t seem to have a great natural production or have had great response on the 3 week run of tamoxifen. So I get it. I love cycling and don’t regret it, but I always regret not waiting an extra year (started after 2 years or so of training the eve of my 21st birthday) because there was just more to learn with training and such that I could have made better gains.

It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[KvanH]

What about the fact that OP's test levels are very low, even after the Nolva restart attempt and well being is in accordance. While the Clomid + hcg might have better results in hpta restart, than the Nolva, the cycle might also depress the endocrine system further. So I'm seeing a high possibility of feeling great on cycle and making gains, and then feeling even worse than before after cycle and loosing all the gains. Am I the only one 'worried' about this scenario?

OP I can't remember the full story of your (attempted) recovery, but 3 weeks of Nolva hardly is giving it all. What do you mean - to be more precise - when you say that trt is impossible to get? Are the limit values so low, that you can't get it now, but may get it later with even lower levels? Or is it due to your age and will be more available later on? Cause' if you can't get on trt, then I wouldn't suppress your T production any lower and you still haven't tried that Clomid+hcg. Cruising on self administered trt would be one option, but you can't do that forever.

 

[Hyde]

What about the fact that OP's test levels are very low, even after the Nolva restart attempt and well being is in accordance. While the Clomid + hcg might have better results in hpta restart, than the Nolva, the cycle might also depress the endocrine system further. So I'm seeing a high possibility of feeling great on cycle and making gains, and then feeling even worse than before after cycle and loosing all the gains. Am I the only one 'worried' about this scenario?

OP I can't remember the full story of your (attempted) recovery, but 3 weeks of Nolva hardly is giving it all. What do you mean - to be more precise - when you say that trt is impossible to get? Are the limit values so low, that you can't get it now, but may get it later with even lower levels? Or is it due to your age and will be more available later on? Cause' if you can't get on trt, then I wouldn't suppress your T production any lower and you still haven't tried that Clomid+hcg. Cruising on self administered trt would be one option, but you can't do that forever.

What’s the risk? His crappy 197 total test levels drop to 100? That would just be splitting hairs between crap & sh!t test levels in that scenario - & you are correct in that he won’t be in a great place to retain as much gains.

So he either does his HCG & Clomid PCT and it’s more successful, or it isn’t. Either way he’ll lose some gains after, and eventually if chronically low despite PCT attempts he WILL get on TRT. Or not, in which case he really won’t be worse off (meaningfully) than when he started.

I would be much more concerned if he still had 400+ total t levels, if it were me. Lower but in range, something to lose but no margin to really afford any more loss. But right now he’s in a position indicative that his natural production is particularly weak these days. Which, as a bonus, is also why he’s likely to get an even better effect from less total mg starting off.

Starting at 200mg and slowly tapering up to 350-400mg over a 10-12 week cycle is probably going to be a great run. He will get to see how much he can tolerate without an AI that way. I like 300mg much more than 400mg personally. 400 I get edema in my feet but not appreciably more growth. And 300 needs much less Exemestane for me.

 

[KvanH]

What’s the risk? His crappy 197 total test levels drop to 100? That would just be splitting hairs between crap & sh!t test levels in that scenario - & you are correct in that he won’t be in a great place to retain as much gains.

So he either does his HCG & Clomid PCT and it’s more successful, or it isn’t. Either way he’ll lose some gains after, and eventually if chronically low despite PCT attempts he WILL get on TRT. Or not, in which case he really won’t be worse off (meaningfully) than when he started.

I would be much more concerned if he still had 400+ total t levels, if it were me. Lower but in range, something to lose but no margin to really afford any more loss. But right now he’s in a position indicative that his natural production is particularly weak these days. Which, as a bonus, is also why he’s likely to get an even better effect from less total mg starting off.

Starting at 200mg and slowly tapering up to 350-400mg over a 10-12 week cycle is probably going to be a great run. He will get to see how much he can tolerate without an AI that way. I like 300mg much more than 400mg personally. 400 I get edema in my feet but not appreciably more growth. And 300 needs much less Exemestane for me.

I think the risk is feeling even worse, than before the cycle and possibly missing the window of trying all measures to restart hpta, before further damaging it.

Now I understand that with his present T levels, there isn't much to loose, but lower is lower (it might be that with levels that low, it doesn't really matter anymore. I don't know how it is). Also there's the mental aspect of it, when having way more test in your system for a moment and then to go back to crappy town.

I just think the Clomid+hcg could be tried first, if there still are any hopes of hpta recovery. If the result with that is no cigar or still not satisfied, then do what ever in regards of cycling and cruise inbetween as long as it's possible or up untill getting to trt.

 

[CroLifter]

What’s the risk? His crappy 197 total test levels drop to 100? That would just be splitting hairs between crap & sh!t test levels in that scenario - & you are correct in that he won’t be in a great place to retain as much gains.

So he either does his HCG & Clomid PCT and it’s more successful, or it isn’t. Either way he’ll lose some gains after, and eventually if chronically low despite PCT attempts he WILL get on TRT. Or not, in which case he really won’t be worse off (meaningfully) than when he started.

I would be much more concerned if he still had 400+ total t levels, if it were me. Lower but in range, something to lose but no margin to really afford any more loss. But right now he’s in a position indicative that his natural production is particularly weak these days. Which, as a bonus, is also why he’s likely to get an even better effect from less total mg starting off.

Starting at 200mg and slowly tapering up to 350-400mg over a 10-12 week cycle is probably going to be a great run. He will get to see how much he can tolerate without an AI that way. I like 300mg much more than 400mg personally. 400 I get edema in my feet but not appreciably more growth. And 300 needs much less Exemestane for me.

On 200mg a week and mk difference in energy and recovery between natty and that is night and day, just saying.

 

[singingman]

What about the fact that OP's test levels are very low, even after the Nolva restart attempt and well being is in accordance. While the Clomid + hcg might have better results in hpta restart, than the Nolva, the cycle might also depress the endocrine system further. So I'm seeing a high possibility of feeling great on cycle and making gains, and then feeling even worse than before after cycle and loosing all the gains. Am I the only one 'worried' about this scenario?

OP I can't remember the full story of your (attempted) recovery, but 3 weeks of Nolva hardly is giving it all. What do you mean - to be more precise - when you say that trt is impossible to get? Are the limit values so low, that you can't get it now, but may get it later with even lower levels? Or is it due to your age and will be more available later on? Cause' if you can't get on trt, then I wouldn't suppress your T production any lower and you still haven't tried that Clomid+hcg. Cruising on self administered trt would be one option, but you can't do that forever.

I know the 3 weeks weren't even close to being fully recover, but i was expecting an artificial elevation of LH and FSH which clearly didn't appear. The TRT we can get perscribed is very suboptimal, we either nebido (so injections every 14 weeks) or dermatest (which would not be an option for me since i am constantly in physical contact with a professional athlete and the risk is just too high). The logic in our country is that if you want to transition from female to male you can get test E, but if you are a hypogonadal male in their 20s you don't get anything that would be even remotely close to a good protocol. I was thinking about self administered TRT until our system changes, so that might be an option.

 

[singingman]

I agree with everything said above, but would just like to add that I would consider waiting until you are 21. Another 6+ months would actually like 25% more training & diet history. And a little more time to read up on AIs and PCT.

I am not telling you not to cycle. You are lean enough, have put on some great muscle naturally, you are an adult that can make your own decisions and don’t seem to have a great natural production or have had great response on the 3 week run of tamoxifen. So I get it. I love cycling and don’t regret it, but I always regret not waiting an extra year (started after 2 years or so of training the eve of my 21st birthday) because there was just more to learn with training and such that I could have made better gains.

It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

TYVM for the compliments, i might wait until i'm 21 but it really depends on the situation.

 

[bad rad]

I'd try a round of Clomid first honestly. I love being on TRT but I was way older than you and had pituitary damage too that can't get fixed.

 

[singingman]

I'd try a round of Clomid first honestly. I love being on TRT but I was way older than you and had pituitary damage too that can't get fixed.

As a matter of fact, i am going to do a brain scan aswell to see if the pituitary gland is the problem.
So to conclude things, i'm gonna try a round of Clomid and HcG before making any decisions further.

 

[Hyde]

As a matter of fact, i am going to do a brain scan aswell to see if the pituitary gland is the problem.
So to conclude things, i'm gonna try a round of Clomid and HcG before making any decisions further.

This is the best decision. I mean your tamoxifen could even have been bunk. You owe it to yourself to give it a second go properly. You don’t want regrets regarding lifelong decisions like using AAS that can have lasting consequences - you only get one body & life.

 

[CroLifter]

As a matter of fact, i am going to do a brain scan aswell to see if the pituitary gland is the problem.
So to conclude things, i'm gonna try a round of Clomid and HcG before making any decisions further.

I dont see point in using hcg in your case.

Clomid is fine. However ideally you should try to come off when you get acceptable levels.

Imho there is sth else. Just being very skinny is not a reason for hormones to be permanently damaged. They should have recovered (when you attained normal weight.


It may be just like that. My test levels went down as i turned 20. I wasnt getting morning wood as before and libido dropped to the dumps. At 21 I couldnt recover from workouts like i used to at 19, i was 10 lbs lighter gas wasnt there, pumps were not there so i said phuk it.

 

[singingman]

A small update:
I decided to go with HcG and nolva, since clomid wasn't available (and some studies show that HcG with nolva supposedly has a greater synergystic effect than with any other SERM), 750 IU twice/week for 2 weeks with 40mg of nolva ED for 1 month. I hope the nolva isn't an overkill. M question is, should i take an AI with it so the HcG doesn't convert?
I've also done my first subQ injection today. How do i know if i hit a muscle? The stab itself didn't initially hurt but when i pushed it in a bit more i felt a slight jab. Don't know if i didn't feel it at first because of my thick skin (my skin from weight loss isn't really loose, just a bit thicker and firmer) or was it fat since fat doesn't have pain receptors and i hit a muscle?
Thank you all for suggestions and supporting me

 

[Hyde]

You want to do subq sideways or at a steep angle into pinched fat. You are trying to get it under the skin, or into the fat. It’s pretty easy to hit abs if you are careless with the angle/pinching, but you will know because it hurts.

I would run the Nolva AFTER the 2 weeks of HCG. And yes I would use a suicidal AI like Exemestane during that to control estrogen (Exem also promoted endogenous test production in hypogonadal males at big doses, not that you should take that much).

 

[singingman]

You want to do subq sideways or at a steep angle into pinched fat. You are trying to get it under the skin, or into the fat. It’s pretty easy to hit abs if you are careless with the angle/pinching, but you will know because it hurts.

I would run the Nolva AFTER the 2 weeks of HCG. And yes I would use a suicidal AI like Exemestane during that to control estrogen (Exem also promoted endogenous test production in hypogonadal males at big doses, not that you should take that much).

Oh okay, will do, thank you. What dose should i run the AI at?

 

[Hyde]

Oh okay, will do, thank you. What dose should i run the AI at?

I would personally take as low as you can get away with and still keep my titties happy. A dose of ~12.5mg Exemestane ideally about 12 hours before the two weekly HCG shots would probably be plenty.

 

[CroLifter]

Just to clarify hcg is suppressive and you should not run nolva with it.

In your case I honestly dont see the need for it i would go straight to the serm. You are not atrophied from a steroid cycle.

 

[Hyde]

Just to clarify hcg is suppressive and you should not run nolva with it.

In your case I honestly dont see the need for it i would go straight to the serm. You are not atrophied from a steroid cycle.

A lot of restart attempts do begin with HCG therapy as a primer before the SERM administration, BUT I agree on paper it’s probably not a necessity.

 

[KvanH]

I'd do the HCG just because

 

[singingman]

I've already pinned .5 cc so i have to atleast use the other half. I'll probably stick to HcG and then start nolva.

 

[singingman]

Update: i've pinned my 2nd .5cc (750mg) HcG this morning and 12 hours later the point where i went in hurts. Didn't happen the first time. I was very careful to inject into fat, went at it at an angle.
My strength in the gym has increased by quite a lot, any idea why? Not that i'm complaining
Also some progress pics of me trying to pose. Do you think i could step on a stage at some point?

 

[Hyde]

Sometimes injection sites get sore. Can be the product, or just a reaction to that stab. If it goes away and is tolerable, carry on. Peptides/HCG can commonly even leave little deposits or get red/puffy even sometimes at site - as long as it’s tolerable and goes away, it’s user-discretion to continue IMHO.

I’m no bodybuilder, but I am of the opinion that if you enjoy doing something & want to pursue that then you should. I have seen much worse physiques step on stage - do it if you want to! Just don’t kill yourself with drugs to do it. There are more sensible paths with PED usage that can get pretty good results without being blatantly reckless with your health - there is life outside this hobby. You have a great foundation.

 

[singingman]

When I woke up this morning, i still felt the pain from the shot, so i got up and checked it and a lump formed. It's swollen and hurts if i touch it. I use new needles every time, i always make sure everything is sterilized. What do guys think went wrong? P.S. yesterday i mindlessly squeezed the spot (i regularly do this once every day because i can rea later in te afternoon and that's when the pain started.

Sometimes injection sites get sore. Can be the product, or just a reaction to that stab. If it goes away and is tolerable, carry on. Peptides/HCG can commonly even leave little deposits or get red/puffy even sometimes at site - as long as it’s tolerable and goes away, it’s user-discretion to continue IMHO.

I’m no bodybuilder, but I am of the opinion that if you enjoy doing something & want to pursue that then you should. I have seen much worse physiques step on stage - do it if you want to! Just don’t kill yourself with drugs to do it. There are more sensible paths with PED usage that can get pretty good results without being blatantly reckless with your health - there is life outside this hobby. You have a great foundation.

Ohhhh okay, so i don't have to worry about it. There's no discharge so it's not infected. (I have a bit of a medical background so i know the basics).Thank you for the help and I am very grateful for the compliments!

 

[singingman]

UPDATE!!:
I have done 2 weeks of Hcg with AI, started nolva afterwards and today got my blood drawn.
My test levels are at 479 ng/dL (16,64 nmol/L), my FSH is normal and it's blatantly visible that HcG did its magic by the LH leves. My libido is still almost at zero though, but i guess i'll work around it some way. Thanks for all the help guys!!

 

[KvanH]

That's great news. How far from your last hcg dose was the blood drawn? I've never heard of this, so I might be completely off, but that high of a LH reading brings to mind if hcg can be read as LH in blood test, since it's mimicing LH in the testes? But someone here can probably tell if that is possible or not. It might be the Nolva raising the LH that high also.

Based on these results I think you're ready to discontinue the Nolva and see where your LH and ultimately your test levels settle. Next time take free T too (total T and shbg -> free T will be calculated). And wouldn't hurt to have E2 measured too.

The whole libido issue is quite complicated. So many things go into it. T vs E2 balance, other hormones like dhea, progesterone, neurotransmitters like dopamine, mental aspects.. Hopefully you'll start to see improvement there also.

 

[whoareyou]

You are 20 so you could probably still treat the source of the hypogonadism.

 

[Hyde]

That's great news. How far from your last hcg dose was the blood drawn? I've never heard of this, so I might be completely off, but that high of a LH reading brings to mind if hcg can be read as LH in blood test, since it's mimicing LH in the testes? But someone here can probably tell if that is possible or not. It might be the Nolva raising the LH that high also.

Based on these results I think you're ready to discontinue the Nolva and see where your LH and ultimately your test levels settle. Next time take free T too (total T and shbg -> free T will be calculated). And wouldn't hurt to have E2 measured too.

The whole libido issue is quite complicated. So many things go into it. T vs E2 balance, other hormones like dhea, progesterone, neurotransmitters like dopamine, mental aspects.. Hopefully you'll start to see improvement there also.

He should not discontinue the Nolva - he only just began! That is the important part of this therapy. The HCG (LH analogue, for our purposes) wakes the boys up to get them sensitive to LH again and rebuilds the testicular mass. Then the SERM drives his endogenous LH thereafter, and THEN after 6 weeks or so of using it he should drop the SERM out and then see if his body is producing his own LH again about 6 weeks after that.

The only time he needs to draw bloodwork is the ~6 weeks after everything is done to see if it worked. Drawing it while on Tamoxifen will show artificially high temporary test & LH levels - what we are after is getting his production artificially up, then hoping his body takes over and runs with it more or less afterwards. I have had 1,100 total test levels on 45mg Tamoxifen but 6 weeks after I usually settled around low 600s when I was fully recovered between cycles. That was just my normal range for me; everyone will be different.

 

[KvanH]

He should not discontinue the Nolva - he only just began! That is the important part of this therapy. The HCG (LH analogue, for our purposes) wakes the boys up to get them sensitive to LH again and rebuilds the testicular mass. Then the SERM drives his endogenous LH thereafter, and THEN after 6 weeks or so of using it he should drop the SERM out and then see if his body is producing his own LH again about 6 weeks after that.

The only time he needs to draw bloodwork is the ~6 weeks after everything is done to see if it worked. Drawing it while on Tamoxifen will show artificially high temporary test & LH levels - what we are after is getting his production artificially up, then hoping his body takes over and runs with it more or less afterwards. I have had 1,100 total test levels on 45mg Tamoxifen but 6 weeks after I usually settled around low 600s when I was fully recovered between cycles. That was just my normal range for me; everyone will be different.

Regarding the bloods; yeah I didn't mention anything about the timing, only what tests would be good to take next time, that were not part of this latest test. The end result with OP's bodys own production is of course what is of interest with the bloods.

You may very well be right about the continuing the Nolva and if so, thank you for correcting me. I don't ever want to give wrong/bad advice to anyone.

Going a bit deeper on it, do you think the hcg can be read as LH in the blood test and thus create a false LH reading? If that's the case, then no question the Nolva should be continued, since there actually isn't (high) LH being produced. But if the LH reading is correct and a result from the Nolva, then is there a difference in getting LH high with a serm and then discontinuing it and letting the LH settle where it settles naturally. Versus getting LH high with a serm and keeping it artificially high with the serm for some weeks before discontinuing the serm and letting the LH settle where it settles naturally?

Obviously no real harm in taking the Nolva and doing the 6 weeks is in no case a bad idea. Just saw it unnecessery if LH has been risen so high already.

 

[Hyde]

Regarding the bloods; yeah I didn't mention anything about the timing, only what tests would be good to take next time, that were not part of this latest test. The end result with OP's bodys own production is of course what is of interest with the bloods.

You may very well be right about the continuing the Nolva and if so, thank you for correcting me. I don't ever want to give wrong/bad advice to anyone.

Going a bit deeper on it, do you think the hcg can be read as LH in the blood test and thus create a false LH reading? If that's the case, then no question the Nolva should be continued, since there actually isn't (high) LH being produced. But if the LH reading is correct and a result from the Nolva, then is there a difference in getting LH high with a serm and then discontinuing it and letting the LH settle where it settles naturally. Versus getting LH high with a serm and keeping it artificially high with the serm for some weeks before discontinuing the serm and letting the LH settle where it settles naturally?

Obviously no real harm in taking the Nolva and doing the 6 weeks is in no case a bad idea. Just saw it unnecessery if LH has been risen so high already.

I do not know for sure about bloodwork, but it’s a known fact pregnancy tests often can’t distinguish between HCG & LH in the urine being tested.

With such high LH levels on his test while using HCG, I’m very inclined to believe that may be the case. I’ve never had LH values that high on my bloodwork while on Clomid or Nolva. Not even close.

Nobody only does PCT treatment for a week. 3-4 weeks is about the minimum for SERM therapy after a cycle to try to restore endogenous production, speaking anecdotally. I am aware of doctors using Clomid on patients for 6 months or more fairly commonly. 6 weeks of Tamoxifen isn’t anything crazy for someone generally healthy, and the longer the therapy the better odds things get going on there own if possible. If you are trying to use drugs to fire your system back up, give them time to work I say.

Not a doctor, just expressing my non-medical opinions lol

 

[KvanH]

I do not know for sure about bloodwork, but it’s a known fact pregnancy tests often can’t distinguish between HCG & LH in the urine being tested.

With such high LH levels on his test while using HCG, I’m very inclined to believe that may be the case. I’ve never had LH values that high on my bloodwork while on Clomid or Nolva. Not even close.

Nobody only does PCT treatment for a week. 3-4 weeks is about the minimum for SERM therapy after a cycle to try to restore endogenous production, speaking anecdotally. I am aware of doctors using Clomid on patients for 6 months or more fairly commonly. 6 weeks of Tamoxifen isn’t anything crazy for someone generally healthy, and the longer the therapy the better odds things get going on there own if possible. If you are trying to use drugs to fire your system back up, give them time to work I say.

Not a doctor, just expressing my non-medical opinions lol

Yeah makes sense I was looking at just the blood test results too unambiguously and never heard of hcg being read as LH, even though was speculating it.