HST Training
- Thread starter Wider is better
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CDB
Registered User
Take more than a week off. Repeat, because this is massively important: take more than a week off. 9 days minimum, 14 preferably. Strategic Deconditioning is no joke, it's a very necessary part of the training. Down play it or don't do it properly, you don't see the results you otherwise would. Take two weeks off to be safe. Play some sports, do some running, don't lift anything weightswise.Manu20 said:
CDB
Registered User
Yeah, the 9-14 day SD that Haycock reccomends seems to be optimal for allowing your muscles to rest and get primed but also ensuring you don't lose too much muscle. I also find myself on the verge of overtraining at the end of the fives, so the break ends up being necessary in more ways than one.jweave23 said:Yeah I'm taking 14 days off. My left trap/shoulder has been a little sore since my last set of 5's, so I can see why this makes sense, among other reasons
julius kelp
Active member
seems like everybody is having to really modify the hst.
CDB
Registered User
Yes. Whether it's an HST cycle or not really doesn't matter. Without AAS or some other supplementation your muscles aren't as receptive to gaining after weeks of intense training. So essentially if you've been training at all, take the time off. You'll see the results.Manu20 said:
Not really. Most people just don't get it. It's just a series of principles to apply to training. There's a lot of wiggle room within those principles of Mechanical Load, Progressive Load, Frequency and Strategic Deconditioning. The base workout Haycock gives of 15s, 10s, 5s, negatives and then SD, is just the ideal one size fits all template. As long as you're abiding by those four principles, work it however you want and it's an HST workout. I'd say that's one of the beauties of the program, that it's so flexible, and no guy wearing spandex is screaming on the TV on a Sunday morning and demanding you pay for it and buy overpriced equipment to do it with.julius kelp said:
wimpy
Member
i just started using HST. did my first of the 15s yesterday. felt like i was accomplishing nothing and i looked like an even bigger pussy than i really am. this is normal, right? i am going to have to start going at lunch when nobody is there till the wieght gets heavier. nothing like having the highschool girl next to you curling more weight than you 
jweave23
Registered User
wimpy said:i just started using HST. did my first of the 15s yesterday. felt like i was accomplishing nothing and i looked like an even bigger pussy than i really am. this is normal, right? i am going to have to start going at lunch when nobody is there till the wieght gets heavier. nothing like having the highschool girl next to you curling more weight than you
LOL, yes it is OK. Everyone does this at first with the 15's. Have some patience and check your ego at the door and you'll be fine by the end of the 10's or start of the 5's :thumbsup:
jjjd
Active member
imo, wimpy, that is a big problem with trainees in general. the idea that you have to lift heavy every workout, lift to failure, etc.
and that if one is lifting submaximally, one is wimping out. the purpose of training, for most people, is to improve results. submaximal lifting is an important part of ANY exercise program (uness one is a hit weenie).
people who think they need to go in every workout and improve on their last workout each successive time, don't understand how training works, how the body adapts, etc.
HST works, and is based on valid science. how a workout 'feels' is a poor proxy for the efficacy of a program
stick with it, and swallow your pride. if you are a bber, it doesn't matter how much you are lifting in the gym on a given day. it matters how well your development goes. if you are a strength athlete, it doesn't matter what you are lifting on a given day, it matter what you do on the platform.
either way, the purpose of training is to cause improvements, not to impress your fellow gymgoers (unless that IS your goal).
if the latter IS your goal, that's well and good, just understand that training to impress others in the gym is suboptimal training, if you want to improve physique, or platform results
and that if one is lifting submaximally, one is wimping out. the purpose of training, for most people, is to improve results. submaximal lifting is an important part of ANY exercise program (uness one is a hit weenie).
people who think they need to go in every workout and improve on their last workout each successive time, don't understand how training works, how the body adapts, etc.
HST works, and is based on valid science. how a workout 'feels' is a poor proxy for the efficacy of a program
stick with it, and swallow your pride. if you are a bber, it doesn't matter how much you are lifting in the gym on a given day. it matters how well your development goes. if you are a strength athlete, it doesn't matter what you are lifting on a given day, it matter what you do on the platform.
either way, the purpose of training is to cause improvements, not to impress your fellow gymgoers (unless that IS your goal).
if the latter IS your goal, that's well and good, just understand that training to impress others in the gym is suboptimal training, if you want to improve physique, or platform results
CDB
Registered User
The program works, that's really all that should matter. Plus, once you get into it the fifteens aren't really necessary. They're purpose is to get your connective tissues ready for the heavy lifting that comes later in the cycle. You can technically skip them and start with the tens if you're used to lifting heavy. I usually only do a week of fifteens when I use HST.wimpy said:i just started using HST. did my first of the 15s yesterday. felt like i was accomplishing nothing and i looked like an even bigger pussy than i really am. this is normal, right? i am going to have to start going at lunch when nobody is there till the wieght gets heavier. nothing like having the highschool girl next to you curling more weight than you
Don't get caught up on the basic workout of 15s, 10s, 5s and negatives. Go through it once and modify it as you see fit. As long as the weight gets progressively heavier almost every workout, you workout every 48 hours and you take 9-14 days off at the end of each cycle, and as long as you eat to gain, you'll gain muscle.
beamen28
New member
what about warm up sets? most of u guys are saying u do 1 to 2 sets per body part. don't u run the risk of hurting urself without a warm up set? even more so once u start getting to heavier weight. also for me cold muscles are never as strong as warm ones. just woundering because im thinking about doing HST too
ajntorinj
Member
I have questions about using PHs with HST. If I decide to do use PH for 5 weeks, would I do best to follow the following schedule: 2 weeks of 15s, 2 weeks of 10s, and week of 8s followed by 4 weeks of 5s? Once I am on PCT, would I be able to decrease frequency to 2.5 per week [IE lift, 2 days off, lift, 2 days off, lift, 1 day off, repeat]? I ask because after training that long on a non-PH HST cycle, overtraining tends to rear its ugly head, and my lifts do not increase. When I do take an extra day off, I am able to progress to higher poundages. Thanks for your help.
jweave23
Registered User
One of the key points in HST (and other weight training schemes) with anabolics is to NOT let the weight go down post cycle, so if you are doing a 9 week cycle (5 weeks ON, 4 weeks PCT) than that week of 8's is fine also. You can do it many ways really, like 12/12/10/10/8/8/5/5/5 or whatever suits you. As for frequency, just aim for training every 48 hrs or so and you'll be fine 
Manu20
Superman
Today was my first HST workout...it was the first day of 15's and OMG I didn't even fee like I worked out. But, after reading others experience with this program I know that this is normal and all part of the program. I enjoyed the workout and like the set up of it and am hoping for good results on this HST cycle.
Manu20
Superman
jweave23 said:I started at 12's for this cycle. 15's almost feel like cardio at first. After your first cycle you can customize it anyway you want ( only 1 week of 15's, maybe only 12's, whatever. Just wait until the 5's
I wrote out all my workouts and weights for the 6 weeks and those 5's look brutal.
Manu20
Superman
Well today was my last day of the 15's and it was pretty tough, but not too bad. And for a lot of my exercises my 15 rep max felt easier than when I did them a few weeks ago...so hopefully thats a sign that its working and things are going good. Start with the 10's on monday so I think things will be getting tougher. So far I am liking the HST workout.
Nullifidian
Banned
I plan on doing this during my PCT which starts Monday.
Nullifidian
Banned
Well, I've established my 15 rep maxes and 10 rep maxes. On Friday I'll establish my 5 rep maxes.
IHateGymMorons
Banned
It's a great program, especially if you're not use to this type of training, and you're coming from a more standard BB routine.
Gethuge
Member
Nullifidian said:
I've done this program twice and had great results both times. It's not the most interesting program to stick to over the long term so I tend to gravitate back to my normal training programs.....anywaysss.....
Having done the programs I can't say that I ever checked for my max poundages in EACH rep range. I picked a weight and repped till failure on each lift before the program was started. Then I used a convertion chart to determine my approximate maxes for each rep range. It isn't really that important. The important points are noted above several times. The weight must increase at each session and on the final session for a specific rep range I always pulled out all the stops and went to total failure. That's it.....KISS principle!
CDB
Registered User
Same here. When I do it I just figure out my five rep max and calculate the weight down from that for workouts earlier in the cycle. Figure out your five rep max, put that as the last workout on your schedule, get 95% and round off, then 95% of that number and round off,Gethuge said:
CDB
Registered User
Yeah, that's exactly what they do. They take the 15/10/5/neg or 5 scheme and apply it like it's supposed to be magic. It's the one size fits all version, so it isn't optimal for every individual by any means. That's why the HST forums are so important if you want to do this routine. They're full of people who have don tons of HST cycles and have ideas to change and tweak it within the principles. There's one guy there that's doing a very basic, simple four exercise routine, but doing it every day (I think he rests on weekends) with low volume per day and progressive loading to see how it works. Wacky, but who knows what'll come of it. Apparently Haycock and a couple others have seen evidence that indicates very frequent loading of the muscles is good for hypertrophy.Gethuge said:
Nullifidian
Banned
The reason I found my maxes for each range was because I was doing different exercises for each range.
15s:
Leg press sled
Leg Extension
Hammer Strength Iso Flat Bench
Cable Crossover
Tricep Rope Pulldown
Dumbell Lateral Raises
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown
Double D grip chindown
Bicep Curl Machine
Sled Calf Presses
10s:
Barbell Squat
Leg Curl
Smith Bench
Cable Crossover (I love these so its a repeat)
Skull Crushers
Arnold Press
Barbell Row
Low Cable Row
EZbar curl
Sled Calf Raises
5s:
Deadlift
Leg Extension
Leg Curl
Barbell Flat Bench
Cable Crossover (like I said, I love it)
Hammer Strength Iso Military Press
Tricep Straightbar pressdown
Dumbell Lateral Raise
Hammer Strength Iso Low Row
Lat Pulldown
Dumbell Preacher Curl
So with a few exceptions, each rep range has a different set of exercises.
15s:
Leg press sled
Leg Extension
Hammer Strength Iso Flat Bench
Cable Crossover
Tricep Rope Pulldown
Dumbell Lateral Raises
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown
Double D grip chindown
Bicep Curl Machine
Sled Calf Presses
10s:
Barbell Squat
Leg Curl
Smith Bench
Cable Crossover (I love these so its a repeat)
Skull Crushers
Arnold Press
Barbell Row
Low Cable Row
EZbar curl
Sled Calf Raises
5s:
Deadlift
Leg Extension
Leg Curl
Barbell Flat Bench
Cable Crossover (like I said, I love it)
Hammer Strength Iso Military Press
Tricep Straightbar pressdown
Dumbell Lateral Raise
Hammer Strength Iso Low Row
Lat Pulldown
Dumbell Preacher Curl
So with a few exceptions, each rep range has a different set of exercises.
jweave23
Registered User
yeah I have found that HST is all about sticking to a few core principles and then making your own routine, otherwise you may not be getting the most out of it. Currently I am doing a 16 weeks cycle which coincides with 12 weeks of AS use and 4 weeks PCT. It looks like this:
12/12/10/10/10/10/8/8/8/8/8/8/8/5/5/5/5
I have been repeating weights for about 4 - 6 workouts so far then increasing, but I figure it's most important to ensure progressive load throughout the entire cycle.
And like CDB said, I have read many reports of guys doing the 6 days/week cycle and really liking it. 3 days/week is perfect for me now, however.
12/12/10/10/10/10/8/8/8/8/8/8/8/5/5/5/5
I have been repeating weights for about 4 - 6 workouts so far then increasing, but I figure it's most important to ensure progressive load throughout the entire cycle.
And like CDB said, I have read many reports of guys doing the 6 days/week cycle and really liking it. 3 days/week is perfect for me now, however.
CDB
Registered User
A common mistake is to keep the same number of exercises as when doing a split. When you go with a full body routine it's best to concentrate almost exclusively on core lifts. Bench Press, Squats, Dead Lifts, Bent Over Rows. Big compound movements mobilize the most muscle mass and are the most efficient for a full body routine. For instance my last HST workout went as such:SwoleT said:
Bench Press
Bent Over Row
Clean and Press
Barbell Curl
Triceps Extention
Dead Lifts
Calf Raise
Swiss Ball Crunches
Simple and effective. Unfortunately I can't do squats regularly because of a knee problem. I workout at home and my rack doesn't have adequate safeties should me knee give out.
Gethuge
Member
Here's a suggestion someone might want to try as well. Instead of having each bodypart following the same rep and volume cycles why not have them each start at a different point in the total cycle. Such that you may be doing 15s for your quads but 5s for your hamstrings, just as an example. This would likely make each workout a little shorter (only marginally) and help keep things from getting too monotonous. Just a thought.
jweave23
Registered User
Manu20 said:
I'm doing a lot of repeating this cycle from one workout to the next, so an example may be:
for the 12's, if my 12RM on DB curls is 50lbs, I'll work up to 50lbs for two weeks, starting around 25lbs. then once I hit 50, I'll stick with that for about 6 workouts of the 10's, then move it up to 55, etc. I'm not doing any zigzagging of weights, just repeating until I can increase. I can already tell that HST while on cycle is going to amount to some hella 8's and 5's, as Haycock has said happens with the German guy and other cyclists :thumbsup:
jweave23
Registered User
Gethuge said:
I suppose you could do that. If somone starts a cycle fresh after SD, they could start certain parts at 10's and others at 15's (or 12's, or whatever) as long as they follow the general principles like progressive resistance and so forth. Definitely sounds like something to try after you have numerous HST cycles under your belt.
jweave23
Registered User
Gethuge said:
I suppose you could do that. If somone starts a cycle fresh after SD, they could start certain parts at 10's and others at 15's (or 12's, or whatever) as long as they follow the general principles like progressive resistance and so forth. Definitely sounds like something to try after you have numerous HST cycles under your belt.
jweave23
Registered User
Gethuge said:
I suppose you could do that. If somone starts a cycle fresh after SD, they could start certain parts at 10's and others at 15's (or 12's, or whatever) as long as they follow the general principles like progressive resistance and so forth. Definitely sounds like something to try after you have numerous HST cycles under your belt.