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bang_bang

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It's been a couple years since I've done a PH cycle. That was back in college and I want to do another when I finish up this X-factor I'm taking now. May do a cut first and wait to do this cycle on the bulk after but we'll see how I'm looking after the X-factor bulk.

Havoc
30/30/30/30/30/30

Stano Drol
3 caps a day through the 6 weeks

Cycle Assist throughout cycle and PCT

PCT:
Clomid
35/35/35/35

Erase
3 caps a day for the 4 weeks

How's it look? Maybe add in some DAA for PCT?
 
I would bump up havoc to 45 if you feel comfortable doing so later in the cycle. Stano needs to be dosed high to really feel the benefit, I would go 8 weeks on the stano also. Yes, add daa for pct
 
I don't want to go more then 6 weeks on Havoc so I'd rather keep Stano at 6 weeks, unless I can run it into PCT? I'll bump stano to 4 caps a day though and maybe Havoc to 40 a day for the last couple weeks if I'm feeling good. And I'll add DAA.
 
You dont have to, continue stano 2 weeks after epi then start pct
 
Also, would this be a good cycle for cutting or a recomp or should I stick to saving it for a bulk? I did havoc in college. Had proper PCT and cycle support and everything but I didn't count macros or anything. Just ate as much as I could and got really good results. Now that I'm more refined with my diet and everything I expect it to turn out really well.
 
I would use more as a recomp. Also, don't run stano into pct. I would run both for six weeks bumping the havoc dose up to 45 for at least the last two. Run stano at 600 to 800 for solid hardening effects and it will keep lethargy away. Also, taper down your clomid like 50/50/25/25. And if you did wanna run 8 weeks of stano then start it two weeks before the epi. No point in running it after you drop epi.
 
timper said:
I would use more as a recomp. Also, don't run stano into pct. I would run both for six weeks bumping the havoc dose up to 45 for at least the last two. Run stano at 600 to 800 for solid hardening effects and it will keep lethargy away.
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Out of curiosity, why stano for 6 weeks instead of 8
 
Purely more advice if he wanted to keep it at 6. I would agree 8 is probably better but either way it won't be the stano giving the gains
 
Thanks for the help guys. I'm still early into this 50 days of X-factor so I've got some time to go. Will continue to use Animal Flex and Cissus for joints, Orthocore for vitamins, Nordic Naturals for fish oil, and creatine mono.

ETA: It seems like stano should be run for 8 weeks but it scares me to have a two week break between havoc and PCT.
 
Like I said, if you're running stano for 8 weeks then start it two weeks before the havoc. Then start pct right away . Dropping the way stronger ph/ds and continuing a way weaker one makes no sense.
Stano - 600/600/600/800/800/800/800/800 Havoc - 0/0/30/30/30/45/45/45 (i think havocs dosed in 15mg)
 
timper said:
Like I said, if you're running stano for 8 weeks then start it two weeks before the havoc. Then start pct right away . Dropping the way stronger ph/ds and continuing a way weaker one makes no sense.
Stano - 600/600/600/800/800/800/800/800 Havoc - 0/0/30/30/30/45/45/45 (i think havocs dosed in 15mg)
Click to expand...

O yea, don't know what I was thinking. Makes perfect sense. I'll do something like this.
 
timper said:
Like I said, if you're running stano for 8 weeks then start it two weeks before the havoc. Then start pct right away . Dropping the way stronger ph/ds and continuing a way weaker one makes no sense.
Stano - 600/600/600/800/800/800/800/800 Havoc - 0/0/30/30/30/45/45/45 (i think havocs dosed in 15mg)
Click to expand...

On the contrary, running stano after epi will allow the new muscle to mature while still being anabolic....
 
Muscle doesn't need to mature. Once you've cause hypertrophy and they grow they will always hold the capacity to be that large again. There's no such thing as mature muscle. This is why it's easier to get back to point in fitness you were previously at then getting there in the first place.
 
timper said:
Muscle doesn't need to mature. Once you've cause hypertrophy and they grow they will always hold the capacity to be that large again. There's no such thing as mature muscle. This is why it's easier to get back to point in fitness you were previously at then getting there in the first place.
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Your knowledgment clearly surpasses mine, disregard all my advice in this thread......smh
 
Alright so this is what I'm looking at. Hope I didn't miscalculate any of the quantities.

Havoc: 2 bottles
Cycle Assist: 3 bottles
PES Erase: 1 bottle
Stano Drol: 3 bottles
Primaforce DAA: 1 bottle
Clomid: 1 bottle

I think this is what I need for 12 weeks. 8 weeks of Stano, 6 weeks of Havoc, 12 weeks of cycle assist, 4 weeks of Erase, Clomid, and DAA.
 
timper said:
In my opinion that's honestly just asking for earlier e2 rebound 2 weeks ahead of schedule
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Why? The length of time that exogenous hormones are being administered is unchanged; so why would estrogen spike one way and not the other?

Besides, I believe DHT opposes the action of estrogen.
 
because instead of increasing the amount of anabolics in your system and giving your body a stronger hormone base youre going from having a rather efficient PH/DS that also tends to suppress your oestrogen levels to only a rather weak DHT that will not have the same effects. My only thought was that the rebound would come on after removing Havoc because of anti-estrogen properties. the length of the cycle doesnt matter, it was just order in removing the steroids. and yes, you are correct that DHT opposes oestrogen but to only an extent.

These are just my thoughts by no means am i saying that yes i am 100% right.
 
I honestly don't think it matters which way you run it; you aren't running very strong or suppressive PHs so it's unlikely rebound will be that big a deal. If it was my cycle I'd just dose the stano so it'd be done in 6 weeks.
 
Mystere3 said:
I honestly don't think it matters which way you run it; you aren't running very strong or suppressive PHs so it's unlikely rebound will be that big a deal. If it was my cycle I'd just dose the stano so it'd be done in 6 weeks.
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Probably won't make much of a difference but I'll just do 8 weeks, 2 weeks before Havoc. This will give me some time to run cycle support too before the Havoc starts.

Is there any benefit to using DAA on cycle or should I use it only during PCT?
 
Save it for pct.

bang_bang said:
Probably won't make much of a difference but I'll just do 8 weeks, 2 weeks before Havoc. This will give me some time to run cycle support too before the Havoc starts.

Is there any benefit to using DAA on cycle or should I use it only during PCT?
Click to expand...
 
How long ago did RPN stop Havoc production? I have no idea how old the stuff is that I'm looking at so could it be really expired?
 
bang_bang said:
How long ago did RPN stop Havoc production? I have no idea how old the stuff is that I'm looking at so could it be really expired?
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Possibly.... they stopped production awhile ago but you can still find it on some sites
 
As long as it was stored properly then prohormones keep potency for about 5 years after being manufactured
 
timper said:
because instead of increasing the amount of anabolics in your system and giving your body a stronger hormone base youre going from having a rather efficient PH/DS that also tends to suppress your oestrogen levels to only a rather weak DHT that will not have the same effects. My only thought was that the rebound would come on after removing Havoc because of anti-estrogen properties. the length of the cycle doesnt matter, it was just order in removing the steroids. and yes, you are correct that DHT opposes oestrogen but to only an extent. These are just my thoughts by no means am i saying that yes i am 100% right.
Click to expand...

Havoc/Epistane does not suppress estrogen or have anti-e properties, so don't believe the hype. Although Epi may be the more potent mass builder, DHT is a powerful androgen and will provide much better protection against estrogen sides than Epi (though counting on any steroid or prohormone for protection from estrogen sides is playing a fool's game). While estrogen sides are possible on *any* cycle, discontinuing Epi while continuing Stano will not cause estrogen to spike.

Hvactech's previous statement that continuing Stano past Epi will give the Epi gains a chance to "mature" before going completely off-cycle - a statement you discounted as incorrect - was actually right on.
 
As I said those statements were just my opinion and I wasn't insisting I was right. As for "maturing muscle" I would love to see some research backing up that theory.
 
bang_bang said:
Probably won't make much of a difference but I'll just do 8 weeks, 2 weeks before Havoc. This will give me some time to run cycle support too before the Havoc starts. Is there any benefit to using DAA on cycle or should I use it only during PCT?
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This is not the ideal way to do it, but do as you will. No, there is no benefit to DAA on cycle.
 
Also, I was under the influence that epistane being a dht derivative opposed estrogen and its predecessor is epitiostanol which is an anti-estrogenic drug. So the thought of it being a prohormone that in a way suppresses estrogen (hence common dry joints on cycle).
 
It's not that simple but I think the general rule is that in a lean individual, epi at least won't boost estrogen on cycle.

Epi has some anti-estrogenic effects as a dht derivative and also doesn't aromatize, but it'll decrease shbg which will increase free e2 and any free t can aromatize and stay as free e w/o shbg to bind it.
 
timper said:
Like I said, if you're running stano for 8 weeks then start it two weeks before the havoc. Then start pct right away . Dropping the way stronger ph/ds and continuing a way weaker one makes no sense.
Stano - 600/600/600/800/800/800/800/800 Havoc - 0/0/30/30/30/45/45/45 (i think havocs dosed in 15mg)
Click to expand...

^This. Is. Flawless.^ Run this and come back and tell us how kick a s s it was.
 
RH2012 said:
i didn't even know that rpn quit making it. its the #2 selling product at lock***.
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They probably bought enough to sell into 2016. I don't care what anyone says, its the easiest 8 pounds ever. I don't even notice it and I drop bf too. Best oral ever sides vs. gains
 
RH2012 said:
my favorite too. if they ever ban these, its the only one i will for sure stock some of. i do want to try triumphalis though. the results sounds similar.
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I'm stocking up regardless. The more gear I can purchase legitimately, the better. Injectables and hcg are all I buy. RC and supps cover the rest.
over the next year, I hope to get:
10 epi
5 sten(lgi)
5 DMZ(lgi)
12 11-oxo(lgi)
5 Tren/dienolone(lgi)
maybe a couple halo
I have a section in my freezer reserved.
 
I guess I can't wait and make 300% profit on ebay as they yank those listings quickly now. Maybe I'll just get what I know I'll need.
 
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