How Much Do We Need High Amounts of Animal Protein? Research?

ucimigrate

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Hi Everyone,

I have seen both sides of the debate over how much protein is needed, and what quality.

Lots of Protein a Good Thing:


Many bodybuilders, etc. cite that many studies were done on sedentary people, or those doing light resistance training, not heavy strength trainers or bodybuilders. I have seen up to 4 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight be recommended. Some bodybuilders even do multiples of that amount.

Plus, we do see from Will Brink's "Unified Field Theory of Nutrition" that when trying to cut calories to lose weight, a higher proportion of protein helps retain muscle and strength. Hence, many of these liquid diets, etc. are mostly protein and maybe some vegetables or fiber sources.

Lots of Protein a Bad Thing:

Many of my nutrition teachers in college point out that excessive protein over a long period of time causes kidney problems, etc.

Even if the result was perfectly neutral, protein is more expensive, and animal products have more saturated fat, cholesterol, etc. than plant products.

Also, the amino acid pool lasts about 24 hours, even carbon skeletons of plant products can make complete proteins.

So, protein deficiency does not seem a real concern.

Are there any articles that can show exactly the right amount of protein?


I eat a little more than 1 gram per pound of bodyweight, since it helps with satiety (cessation of eating), and has a muscle saving effect.

What do you guys think?
 
HIT4ME

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I agree with the above article. In my experience 1 gram/pound is a good guide - and that becomes even more important in a deficit.
 

Derek Wilson

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According to this reference, you should eat 0.36 grams of protein per pound per day. Protein Intake - How Much Protein Should You Eat Per Day?
This means-
  • 56 grams per day for the average sedentary man and
  • 46 grams per day for the average sedentary woman.
Any more animal protein per day is too much. If you overeat protein, your kidneys and your liver have to work harder to eliminate the extra amino acids that result from the breakdown of protein. In the long term this could make you sick (kidney disease or liver disease). Thanks
 
Resolve10

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According to this reference, you should eat 0.36 grams of protein per pound per day. Protein Intake - How Much Protein Should You Eat Per Day?
This means-
  • 56 grams per day for the average sedentary man and
  • 46 grams per day for the average sedentary woman.
Any more animal protein per day is too much. If you overeat protein, your kidneys and your liver have to work harder to eliminate the extra amino acids that result from the breakdown of protein. In the long term this could make you sick (kidney disease or liver disease). Thanks
No. Not true at all. The article you listed even talks about this specifically. Come on man. 🤦‍♂️
 

ucimigrate

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I agree. In my mind, I have a tripartite arrangement:

1. For people who regularly lift weights, etc. it is important not to have deficiencies:

A rough guess would be 0.5 grams per pound of lean bodyweight. So, for most people, 50-75 grams would be enough.

The amino acid pool lasts a day, carbon skeletons can help form amino acids, etc. So, people who eat a typical American diet of some meat, eggs, fish, beans and even grains like brown rice, oatmeal, whole wheat will not become deficient.

2. For people who do extensive resistance training, want to keep existing muscle on a diet, or want to put muscle on, up to 1 gram per pound of total bodyweight is good.

Even if the body does not "need" it to avoid going into a deficiency, protein provides satiety, helps with building muscle, losing fat, etc. more than carbohydrates, etc.

3. Anything up to about 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight is helpful. Anything more than 1.5 grams per pound or even crazy amounts like 2.0 grams per pound of bodyweight is too much.

** "Just because you can, does not mean you should"...protein is harder on the kidneys, is more expensive than other sources, and can cause bloating.
 
aaronuconn

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According to this reference, you should eat 0.36 grams of protein per pound per day. Protein Intake - How Much Protein Should You Eat Per Day?
This means-
  • 56 grams per day for the average sedentary man and
  • 46 grams per day for the average sedentary woman.
Any more animal protein per day is too much. If you overeat protein, your kidneys and your liver have to work harder to eliminate the extra amino acids that result from the breakdown of protein. In the long term this could make you sick (kidney disease or liver disease). Thanks
Let’s go with this source instead: https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0177-8
 

Mathb33

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What an absolute joke. 0.4g per lbs? Sounds like this was made by a 150 lbs skinny twig who can’t eat enough... 50g per day for a man? I just ate that for breakfast and I would never get below 200g a day on a bad day.
 
Resolve10

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What an absolute joke. 0.4g per lbs? Sounds like this was made by a 150 lbs skinny twig who can’t eat enough... 50g per day for a man? I just ate that for breakfast and I would never get below 200g a day on a bad day.
That is for sedentary individuals.

Guys if you click the article he linked it doesn't even advocate for that. Even it doesn't say to eat that little, but that number is based on studies for non-exercising/sedentary individuals, obviously it has little/no importance here.
 

Mathb33

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That is for sedentary individuals.

Guys if you click the article he linked it doesn't even advocate for that. Even it doesn't say to eat that little, but that number is based on studies for non-exercising/sedentary individuals, obviously it has little/no importance here.
Ah. Lol sorry kinda jumped on conclusions here.
 
HIT4ME

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No. Not true at all. The article you listed even talks about this specifically. Come on man. 🤦‍♂️
LMAO. Yeah, here is the text from the article since no one is reading it. It was LITERALLY the next sentence.:

"Most official nutrition organizations recommend a fairly modest protein intake.

The DRI (Dietary Reference Intake) is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, or 0.36 grams per pound.

This amounts to:

  • 56 grams per day for the average sedentary man.
  • 46 grams per day for the average sedentary woman.
Though this meager amount may be enough to prevent downright deficiency, studies show that it’s far from sufficient to ensure optimal health and body composition."

I agree. In my mind, I have a tripartite arrangement:

1. For people who regularly lift weights, etc. it is important not to have deficiencies:

A rough guess would be 0.5 grams per pound of lean bodyweight. So, for most people, 50-75 grams would be enough.

The amino acid pool lasts a day, carbon skeletons can help form amino acids, etc. So, people who eat a typical American diet of some meat, eggs, fish, beans and even grains like brown rice, oatmeal, whole wheat will not become deficient.

2. For people who do extensive resistance training, want to keep existing muscle on a diet, or want to put muscle on, up to 1 gram per pound of total bodyweight is good.

Even if the body does not "need" it to avoid going into a deficiency, protein provides satiety, helps with building muscle, losing fat, etc. more than carbohydrates, etc.

3. Anything up to about 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight is helpful. Anything more than 1.5 grams per pound or even crazy amounts like 2.0 grams per pound of bodyweight is too much.

** "Just because you can, does not mean you should"...protein is harder on the kidneys, is more expensive than other sources, and can cause bloating.
Just because you can does not mean you should is true - sure. But just because you are not deficient does not mean you are optimal either.

I would suggest that 50-75 g/day is the MINIMAL amount a healthy young person could get away with without deficiency.

Many factors go into this though, and someone over the age of 60, IMO, will have increased protein needs even if they are sedentary and 50 g even for a small woman probably will not be enough.

I'm not sure I buy that protein can cause kidney damage in a previously healthy kidney. I thought this has been thoroughly debunked, but I haven't looked in a long while. I certainly don't buy it hurting your liver.

Of course, I guess anything can be overdone and if you're going to take in 600 grams of protein when you way 50 pounds....then yeah, that's not healthy either, even just based on the caloric load.[/QUOTE]
 
GreenMachineX

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I enjoy these back to basics discussions every so often. I’m guilty of forgetting this and getting deep into obscure supplements that have some mild evidence in some kind of anabolic pathway. But, fluctuating between 210 and 225 the past few years, somewhere between 16-22% BF, I’ve been eating 150-200g protein per day. It’s interesting this thread just came up as I’ve added an extra 50g pea protein per day to boost it and see how much that makes a difference in recovery and results. It’s only been a week so way too early to tell, but that research article up top is a good reminder to me I have some more room to work with which may have beneficial results.
 
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