How Influential Is the Testosterone Number?

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ucimigrate

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Hello Everyone,

1. For my whole life, my testosterone has been able 320 on the 300 - 1000 reference range.

Regular general practitioners have always said it is fine, since LH, etc. is normal

Many bodybuilders, wannabe doctors (chiropractors) and others have been alarmed at a man in his 20's having a number low. Yet, with anything they do, they almost always have incomplete expertise or a hidden agenda.

2. Can anyone explain what is happening?

Mentally, my energy levels have always been high. I rarely had "brain fog" etc.

When it comes to aggression, both physical and mental, I have always had a normal or even above average level.

I do require my 8-9 hours of sleep. For my Wall Street, etc. friends that seems like a high requirement, but I realize that is normal for a normal population.

I do have more trouble gaining muscle or losing fat than others. But, that is more genetic, diet, training, etc. than just a testosterone.

I have been prescribed steroids electively, such as low doses of TestoGel, Oxandrolone, Primobolan Depot. I do notice improved physical performance, but also more emotional lability, etc. Ironically, my results on testosterone have been milder than many anticipate.

3. Again, do we have any research? On the 300 - 1000 reference range, is something like 500 better, and 800 even better?

My guess is testosterone levels are over-rated. The press makes it sound like a mana from Heaven to gain muscle, lose fat, get strong, pure muscle. Yet, in reality it is one ingredient of many.

Yes, for those deficient in specifically testosterone, giving outside testosterone helps. But, for those who are normally healthy, more just causes side effects.
 
Bigmatt57

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The reason for the 300-1000 reference range is because everyone’s testosterone requirements for themselves differ. 300 may be all YOU need to feel optimum, while someone else with those levels may feel awful. However if you wanted to optimize muscle gain then sure Increasing your testosterone will be beneficial.

Often times you will see a thread on this forum or another that goes something like this “Just got off my cycle, did PCT got blood work and total Test is 600ng/dl, why do I still feel like sh1t”. That’s why it’s important to make sure you know your baseline testosterone level. Because although you may still be very well In range, that may not be YOUR testosterone level.

If you feel fine, then I wouldn’t worry about it. Unless you wanted to jump the gun and get on TRT, although that’s definitely not a light decision and maybe not the smartest. Especially at your age.
 
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ucimigrate

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Thanks for the info. I am slowly understanding it.

Out in California, many alternative medicine (wannabe) doctors, chiropractors, etc. take a blood test (maybe even at a less than recommended time). They often make leaps of errors in logic, such as "Your testosterone in 320 and you are 37 years old. I am only 300, but I am 47 years old. That means, you are screwed.

I see them do this with growth hormone. That means either they don't know how references ranges are designed, and work. Or, they disregard it for their own agenda to sell you something or receive credit."

Honestly, I always suspected they were not correct, but I could not articulate why.

I agree, if I feel fine, then low T should not be a problem. I have had problems with trouble gaining muscle, losing fat, feeling fatigued, etc. But, probably hundreds of causes could be a case, not the crisis that these alternative health people make it out to be.
 
brofessorx

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Get on 500mg of test E per week and call me in 4 weeks to tell me how you’re feeling.
I bet it’ll be something like “ I feel like King Kong on ecstacy”
 
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ucimigrate

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Certainly, aren't there potential problems?

Anything that can boost mood can also cause hypomania, especially in susceptible individuals, right?
 
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Certainly, aren't there potential problems?

Anything that can boost mood can also cause hypomania, especially in susceptible individuals, right?
your way to neurotic lmao. but yeah if you feel ok dont do anything but in general that number for most men means they feel horrible. also a lot of times with low t you dont think theres anything wrong until you fix it because you got used slowly overtime to a subpar quality of life.

also agression isnt really a sign of high t levels if anything your more likely to be more snappy due to overall being emotionally erratic. with misbalanced horomone levels.

another thing everything youve taken is notorious for not being able to dial in hormone levels. so if you arent willing to inject your not able to dial in your protocol properly.

theres more to testosterone than just its level. shbg free testosterone estrogen etc all have a effect on mood etc if something else is off you wont feel as good.
 
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ucimigrate

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Exactly. When most people say "at 320 you would feel terrible," that is why I worry.

I doubt that so many doctors have seen me, but never saw my blood work as a problem. I would be far more skeptical of alternative medicine doctors, anti aging people, etc. trying to sell me non-insurance supplements and medicine.

Who do I speak with to see if my blood work is a problem? And, if I get on Testosterone, ways to make sure I won't become more imbalanced? Would a general practitioner help? Or, a specialized doctor?
 
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Exactly. When most people say "at 320 you would feel terrible," that is why I worry.

I doubt that so many doctors have seen me, but never saw my blood work as a problem. I would be far more skeptical of alternative medicine doctors, anti aging people, etc. trying to sell me non-insurance supplements and medicine.

Who do I speak with to see if my blood work is a problem? And, if I get on Testosterone, ways to make sure I won't become more imbalanced? Would a general practitioner help? Or, a specialized doctor?
request a referral to a endocrinologist. specifically a non female one.
 
KvanH

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You know what? If you like your weight and athletic performance, the way you look... the less testosterone the better. I'd say for every 100 testosterone on your blood test, you probably lose 2-5 years life expectancy. It also makes you lose your hair, grow it in funny places, smell funky, get oily skin, etc.
You saying a man with test level of 800 has a 8-20 years shorter life expectancy, than a man with test level of 400, when all other factors would be identical? Never heard of that 🤔 I think the balding, hair growth in diff places, oily skin etc. are more of a possible effects, when going out of the normal natural test level range with exogenous test. You could just aswell list general positive effects associated with testosterone, like being energized, having confidence, high libido etc..
 
CasperKValentine

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You know what? If you like your weight and athletic performance, the way you look... the less testosterone the better. I'd say for every 100 testosterone on your blood test, you probably lose 2-5 years life expectancy. It also makes you lose your hair, grow it in funny places, smell funky, get oily skin, etc.
LOL! So my doctor has prescribed me something that by using your calculations is taking 10-25 years off my life? Not even smoking 2 packs a day does that! And I have zero of the conditions you listed. Surely you don't really believe what you say.
 
CasperKValentine

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Ok lets disregard the rest of the medical experts and only listen to what this dr. has to say. And look, there are side effects and risks associated with every drug. You are being a bit silly here. Your on a board called Anabolic Minds in a forum called "Anti-Aging". Kind of like going to a Satan ritual and handing out Jesus pamphlets. lol
 
KvanH

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Ok lets disregard the rest of the medical experts and only listen to what this dr. has to say. And look, there are side effects and risks associated with every drug. You are being a bit silly here. Your on a board called Anabolic Minds in a forum called "Anti-Aging". Kind of like going to a Satan ritual and handing out Jesus pamphlets. lol
I wasn't even talking about just trt/exogenous test, but test levels in general.
 
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No it's pretty well accepted in the medical community that men live shorter lives than women and testosterone is the main reason. This isn't a fringe theory or pseudoscience or anything. It's just biology.

Now, if a man's daily life is suffering because of low libido, energy etc and getting his testosterone levels from abnormal to normal fixes it, that's therapeutical. It may shave off a few years of life but it's normal for a man to live less and quality of life is better. But it' never been meant to bring a person from low normal to high normal and especially not supraphysiological. A mainstream medical clinic would never do that. You need to go to a more fringe clinic for that.
Hypogonadism (low T) is linked to several other health issues such as higher risk of having a heart attack and strokes. Taking test to keep your test levels in a normal range is healthier, period.
 
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Interesting... it appears that if you have abnormally low levels of test you can get overweight, diabetes and plaque in the arteries... or it could just be that being overweight with diabetes and atherosclerosis causes your testes to shut down.

"Whether low testosterone is a ‘cause or consequence' of coronary disease remains unknown. There appears to be evidence supporting both sides of this controversy. It is of course possible that it plays a causative role and is also a consequence of illness and frailty. A great deal of research work will be needed..."
Why does it seem you’re anti TRT?

 
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I think people should be aware of the risks and rewards. I'm anti-trt if you don't need it. Also, if you don't need it and want to be enhanced, run a proper cycle don't shut yourself down for trt.

What turned me off to it I guess is when Derek from MPMD got affiliated with a TRT clinic and went from talking about the 1g tren per week he was taking to how TRT, TRT+ and HRT will get you as jacked as The Rock. And almost overnight the typical post on these forums became "I'm 22, 175lbs, on TRT and just added 100mg test to start a cycle..."
Ok….what you just posted, I 100% agree with. I’ve seen young guys on here say they need TRT and it’s BS 99% of the time. It’s rare someone in their 20’s need TRT unless they didn’t do a proper PCT and just totally screwed their natural production. So, we’re on the same page.
 
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What really turned my stomach was I happened upon MPMD's Reddit page and oh boy, you've got hundreds of people on there mostly talking about TRT, all young kids referring to getting death star boulder shoulders. They're calling up his clinic and none of his docs will give a healthy 20 yr old kid trt but but they'll push injectable carnitine on them $1000 for a 6 month supply and fda approved weight loss meds- none of which insurance covers. They're debating whether to go through with it and his reps are getting on Reddit (identifying themselves as reps) and pushing the health benefits.

So a lot of them are self prescribing trt and ordering from a UGL and doing more harm than good. And I see it spilling onto these boards. I do realize there are many complete noobs out there who should start with a baby cycle though. But then cycle off and do a PCT if you're young and healthy.
Yeah that is sickening. So many kids are going to be screwed up. Back in the day you could talk sense into some kids. Now, they really don’t listen. If the info is on social media then they think it’s the gospel.
 
Nac

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I think people should be aware of the risks and rewards. I'm anti-trt if you don't need it. Also, if you don't need it and want to be enhanced, run a proper cycle don't shut yourself down for trt.

What turned me off to it I guess is when Derek from MPMD got affiliated with a TRT clinic and went from talking about the 1g tren per week he was taking to how TRT, TRT+ and HRT will get you as jacked as The Rock. And almost overnight the typical post on these forums became "I'm 22, 175lbs, on TRT and just added 100mg test to start a cycle..."
Is that you Jordon Oakley?

I agree. Derek turned into a money driven fukface as far as I'm concerned. The bullsh1t fake natty Era has been replaced with TRT will get you jacked and if it doesnt its cos you're a suk responder. I mean using PEDs can be done responsibly and with health in mind....like Black says, it's your hand on the volume control. But it's blatant bullsh1t for a guy like Lobliner to claim he got peak condition and his pro card with HRT, for example.
 
Nac

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I hadn't heard of the guy. But thanks for the name drop. He competes and I'm recreational so I'm not as extreme as him, but I think it's important to know what to expect from what you're doing, both good and bad. And there's definately a racket out there causing influencers to exaggerate the positives and downplay the negatives of long term hormone use just above natural levels. I came across this video of his which I thought was awesome:
Ya. I like Oakley, in so much as he is a counterbalance to the pseudo-TRT promoters. But at the end of the day he is still endorsing something extreme, at the opposite end of the spectrum.

I personally really like Victor Black's "model" of use. It kinda brings both extremes together in a safe-promoting way.
 
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ucimigrate

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So, again, when does someone need it?

How do I know if I need it?
 

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