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Holding Muscle During Layoff

GreenMachineX

GreenMachineX

Well-known member
Basically for the next few weeks at least, maybe longer, I can't do any presses, lateral raises, pull ups or back squats (nothing that'll make my rotated scapula causing shoulder impingement worse). I'm also cutting because I've gotten a little out of control this past year and gained way too much fat, resulting in two scenarios to lose lots of muscle. I'm keeping my protein high and using DCP, Epitome, and BMP but wondering what else would help keep the muscle I have for the things I can't do. I can still do deadlifts, rows, shrugs and arms basically. Anyone been through this and have any suggestions?
 
I recently fixed my shoulder impingement, I had it on the right side and my chiropractor helped with correcting it. The left side impingement was way worse and recently started to heal after four months of grit and bare it in the gym ( like a jackass). That being said I took a nice anti inflammatory before any workout involving shoulder and dropped weight and Incorporated face pulls slow and controlled with different grips. I know this isn't the answer you were directly looking for but I hope that it benefits you in some way.
 
FreakyMuskels said:
I recently fixed my shoulder impingement, I had it on the right side and my chiropractor helped with correcting it. The left side impingement was way worse and recently started to heal after four months of grit and bare it in the gym ( like a jackass). That being said I took a nice anti inflammatory before any workout involving shoulder and dropped weight and Incorporated face pulls slow and controlled with different grips. I know this isn't the answer you were directly looking for but I hope that it benefits you in some way.
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johnnyp said:
Farmers walk is a great total body exercise if that's doable and HMB might be worth a shot.
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Literally just got back from physical therapy and now I'm not allowed to do any upper body or anything that strains the shoulder joint so no deadlifts or farmers walks now either.
 
FreakyMuskels said:
I recently fixed my shoulder impingement, I had it on the right side and my chiropractor helped with correcting it. The left side impingement was way worse and recently started to heal after four months of grit and bare it in the gym ( like a jackass). That being said I took a nice anti inflammatory before any workout involving shoulder and dropped weight and Incorporated face pulls slow and controlled with different grips. I know this isn't the answer you were directly looking for but I hope that it benefits you in some way.
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Did you stop all presses while rehabbing?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Did you stop all presses while rehabbing?
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I got rid of barbell bench press and Overhead press. I used very light dumbells. I managed to pick up this cheap should brace online , not sure what it is called but it is blue and very simple. The brace more or less reminded me to lightly pull my shoulders back during excersises and changed my range of motion slightly. At first the doctor I had seen wanted to cut me open and look..... I told him no way since he had no proof of anything worth cutting on.
 
Diet is going to be key right now. As your activity level will be dropping dramatically, look to move into maintenance mode for the time being, but keeping proteins and fats up and carbs moderate. Get out an walk as much as you can to keep up with some LISS. All I can say on top of that is to not get into your head and feel like you need to jump back in too fast or you will prolong recovery and nothing is more frustrating than that.
 
Not sure how you feel about Ostarine but it is basically the perfect supplement to take in this situation.
 
2-3 weeks of layoff will most likely result in NO muscle loss. I know everyone worries about this, but honestly you may be surprised that most people often come back STRONGER after a layoff like this. You MAY decondition a little and your first few workouts will be rough and you won't be able to lift as much - but it will be more conditioning loss than muscle loss, IMO. And, again, the deconditioning may actually help prime you for new gains when you come back.

If this were me, I would enjoy the time off and focus on resting and recovery. Maybe add in some HICA, HMB and/or leucine - but high protein, BMP and DCP may be enough and the high protein most likely has your leucine needs covered. I would increase fats and avoid having too heavy a deficit while not working out - but a small deficit should be fine.
 
Keep your diet proper, particular less carbs since you won't be doing anything high activity. You will probably not lose any muscle in 3-4 weeks anyway if you stay active (walking, sprinting, jumping) and don't eat like trash. There's plenty of athletes who take 3 weeks to 3 months off then come back eventually stronger anyway.

As far as supplementation, Forskolin can preserve LBM (this has studies of inactive subjects who were dieting lose almost no LBM). Maybe look into Antaeus Labs Hydra Head 6.
 
The good thing is I walk around a warehouse all day and move boxes and such so I'll be active. The problem is I haven't done any presses or pull ups for 3 weeks, and probably won't for a while, not just a week. I'm honestly thinking this layoff will end in rotator cuff surgery (but could be wrong of course). So I'm sure I'll lose some. Thanks everyone for the replies.

Is what I described enough to help in maintaining or is actual LISS called for? I can't do high intensity cardio anyway because of 1 bad knee with an old repaired ACL and 1 with patellar tendinitis.
 
GreenMachineX said:
The good thing is I walk around a warehouse all day and move boxes and such so I'll be active. The problem is I haven't done any presses or pull ups for 3 weeks, and probably won't for a while, not just a week. I'm honestly thinking this layoff will end in rotator cuff surgery (but could be wrong of course). So I'm sure I'll lose some. Thanks everyone for the replies.

Is what I described enough to help in maintaining or is actual LISS called for? I can't do high intensity cardio anyway because of 1 bad knee with an old repaired ACL and 1 with patellar tendinitis.
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Walking, lifting and walking with stuff, that's all good. The only thing you will lose in these 3-4 weeks is your "strength skill", but that's mostly neural and will come back to you once you can be consistent again. Just live life and get better for now, you'll be ok.
 
I went through something similar last year. I did everything I could to preserve as much muscle as possible while minimizing any fat gain. During that time I would still do LISS, mobility exercises and stretches along with my PT. I did my best to stay active to increase circulation and blood flow. I also switched to IF during this time and experimented with Keto, and eventually CKD when I was able to get back to the gym. GDA's helped a lot too and helped to keep me from getting fat. Keeping good blood flow and circulation as well as a very dialed in diet will be the key.
 
HIT4ME said:
2-3 weeks of layoff will most likely result in NO muscle loss. I know everyone worries about this, but honestly you may be surprised that most people often come back STRONGER after a layoff like this. You MAY decondition a little and your first few workouts will be rough and you won't be able to lift as much - but it will be more conditioning loss than muscle loss, IMO. And, again, the deconditioning may actually help prime you for new gains when you come back.
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This is absolutely true. We all panic, but it's not enough time to really lose much. Most of what you do lose will be the neuromuscular "sharpness" that you regain very quickly.

If this is unilateral, you could also take advantage of the effect where training one limb will benefit the other lift (and 2-3 weeks shouldn't be long enough to create gross imbalances):
Still can't post links, but look up these:
Latella C, Kidgell DJ, Pearce AJ. Reduction in corticospinal inhibition in the trained and untrained limb following unilateral leg strength training. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2012 Aug;112(8):3097-107.
Kidgell DJ, Frazer AK, Daly RM, Rantalainen T, Ruotsalainen I, Ahtiainen J, et al. Increased cross-education of muscle strength and reduced corticospinal inhibition following eccentric strength training. Neuroscience. 2015 Aug 6;300:566-75.
 
VO2Maxima said:
This is absolutely true. We all panic, but it's not enough time to really lose much. Most of what you do lose will be the neuromuscular "sharpness" that you regain very quickly.

If this is unilateral, you could also take advantage of the effect where training one limb will benefit the other lift (and 2-3 weeks shouldn't be long enough to create gross imbalances):
Still can't post links, but look up these:
Latella C, Kidgell DJ, Pearce AJ. Reduction in corticospinal inhibition in the trained and untrained limb following unilateral leg strength training. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2012 Aug;112(8):3097-107.
Kidgell DJ, Frazer AK, Daly RM, Rantalainen T, Ruotsalainen I, Ahtiainen J, et al. Increased cross-education of muscle strength and reduced corticospinal inhibition following eccentric strength training. Neuroscience. 2015 Aug 6;300:566-75.
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Leave it to you to give references and make me/HIT4ME look lazy, haha. Just kidding.

For what it's worth, I didn't include this, but from anecdote, during basketball season my lifting is minimal/much less intensity/volume and after the season, I come back just as strong, if not stronger, and of course, more conditioned. And I'm talking months here.
 
VO2Maxima said:
This is absolutely true. We all panic, but it's not enough time to really lose much. Most of what you do lose will be the neuromuscular "sharpness" that you regain very quickly.

If this is unilateral, you could also take advantage of the effect where training one limb will benefit the other lift (and 2-3 weeks shouldn't be long enough to create gross imbalances):
Still can't post links, but look up these:
Latella C, Kidgell DJ, Pearce AJ. Reduction in corticospinal inhibition in the trained and untrained limb following unilateral leg strength training. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2012 Aug;112(8):3097-107.
Kidgell DJ, Frazer AK, Daly RM, Rantalainen T, Ruotsalainen I, Ahtiainen J, et al. Increased cross-education of muscle strength and reduced corticospinal inhibition following eccentric strength training. Neuroscience. 2015 Aug 6;300:566-75.
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Awesome stuff. This applies to me even more because my injured shoulder is actually bigger than the other, oddly enough.
 
ma70 said:
Leave it to you to give references and make me/HIT4ME look lazy, haha. Just kidding.

For what it's worth, I didn't include this, but from anecdote, during basketball season my lifting is minimal/much less intensity/volume and after the season, I come back just as strong, if not stronger, and of course, more conditioned. And I'm talking months here.
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Lol....Make me look lazy??? He isn't making me look lazy. I do that all. On. My. Own. Thanks you very much.

That is all.
 
**Only read OP**

Do some body weight work if you can. Maybe add in some bands if possible.

Despite your want to cut, keep calories high and clean. Maybe attemp some Carb Backloading or adding in a GDA.

Soy Lecethin Granules would probably help, but I would pick up some Triumph.

HICA would be a nice addition IMO.

Maybe Ancyclus Pyrethrum, but adding more supps might not be the answer and probably will just equate to $$$.

If it was me, I'd focus on the health and lifestyle aspect of this: Better diet, health/longevity/nootropic supplementation, meditation, so you can be at a better place over all when you get back into the gym. Set yourself up for longterm success. Or take the time off to focus on other hobbies and things that bring you joy.

Best of luck.
 
Follow the advice of your physio for rehab. Ease into higher workloads, and strengthen/ stretches will be your besy friend.

Diet is key for maintaining muscle. Protein high and you'll be fine.
 
Jiigzz said:
Follow the advice of your physio for rehab. Ease into higher workloads, and strengthen/ stretches will be your besy friend.

Diet is key for maintaining muscle. Protein high and you'll be fine.
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Excellent advice right here. Listen to the doctor (when it comes to physical activity) and listen to yourself when it comes to diet and nutrition. Eat smart, but make sure you eat enough (to preserve muscle). If you can hang around right where you weigh now, you will know you didn't lose much muscle mass and the strength will come back very quickly.





-Spaz
 
Hip Belt Squats? Safety Bar Squats? Erector work. HIIT. Sled Drags (Push?) Hip Thrusts... Slight surplus. 2 weeks off won't hurt - research proven to come back stronger. Muscle memory even if loss - a week or two and it will be back. You can only do what you can do - why Cortisol over it? :D
 
Well, my shoulder impingement resulting in Tendinopathy is back. Just when I was starting to make good progress and gain what I previously lost. Going to get serious about keto again to maintain muscle, add in HMB-FA and BMP when it arrives and already running DCP and Brite. And add a lower back injury from deadlifting 2 weeks ago, and I’m just a mess. Getting tired of this.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Well, my shoulder impingement resulting in Tendinopathy is back. Just when I was starting to make good progress and gain what I previously lost. Going to get serious about keto again to maintain muscle, add in HMB-FA and BMP when it arrives and already running DCP and Brite. And add a lower back injury from deadlifting 2 weeks ago, and I’m just a mess. Getting tired of this.
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Sorry to hear that - can you give us a little more history on your training and injury status? Honestly, you shouldn't be getting injured from lifting so maybe there is something that needs to be figured out?
 
HIT4ME said:
Sorry to hear that - can you give us a little more history on your training and injury status? Honestly, you shouldn't be getting injured from lifting so maybe there is something that needs to be figured out?
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Which injury, shoulder(s), lower back or knee? lol
 
ill just explain them all...
10 years tore left ACL doing an axel clean and press. The guys I was training with said I was leaning more on it. Took 19 years to figure out it because of a right hip issue which I’ll go into more detail later.

Right shoulder started with pain on resisted external rotation and end range external rotation, and any chest presses and overhead presses. PT failed and mri showed tendinosis but no actual tear and X-ray didn’t show any bone causing structural impingement. Eventually unable to lift arm to the side at all. Took about 4 months off which let the tendinosis heal but impingement “pinch pain” remained. Doctors, physical therapists, blah blah, eventually a chiropractor figured out my serratus wasn’t working so activating that brought my arm into 85% ROM. Lat and Teres major stretches fixed the end range external rotation. But chest presses still aggravate the shoulder tendon (pretty sure infraspinatus, as the impingement is more on the back side, between medial and rear delt). Overhead presses with neutral grip are fine and push ups are fine. All lateral raise variations hurt to some extent. I use a lacrosse ball on the lat, Teres, and just started long head of triceps. Recently been experimenting with variations of chest work, but too much has caused the tendinosis or tendonitis to come back. Doing lots of external rotations, serratus work, lower trap activation but can’t seem to fix the last little bit of impingement. Sick of taking time off. The interesting thing I’ve tecently figured out is the different pain types from the imbalance problem (impingement) vs the Tendinopathy pain (tendinosis or tendonitis).

The lower back...for months I would get super stiff and mild pain from deadlifts, but thought I was just getting older. It wasn’t bad at all though. Then 2 weeks ago, during my workset (not 1 rep max or anything, but 85% 1RM maybe), on the second rep it felt like some kind of crazy pressure/grinding in the SI joint and coccyx area. Felt super unstable walking and wrong movements felt like I should crumble. That lasted about 10 days. X-ray showed nothing. Figured out I have a hard case of anterior pelvic tilt. Doing bird dogs, banded side walks, ab work, and thoracic mobility. Tried squatting but went too heavy yesterday and the stiffness/mild pain started again so no more squats either for a while.
 
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But yeah, for anyone reading, any advice would be highly appreciated. I also busted out my infrared light to aid in healing, but unsure how much it does. Started taking 20 grams collagen protein daily and already take an extra 5g glycine before bed. Starting MSM at 2g per day for now but will build up to 6g.

Forgot to mention also just started shoulder banded dislocates. They finally don’t hurt. When the impingement was at its worst, I couldn’t even do those or any resisted or light band external rotations. The tight lat and teres major really do a number.
 
So, here is my "general" thoughts and it is hard to say over the internet, so I am guessing here.

You are on a lot of the right paths here - banded exercises for the shoulders, rolling, etc. I would also suggest rolling the opposing muscle to the ones that hurt, or even muscles you think aren't related.

I once had incredible shoulder pain, hurt to even lift my arms. Then one day I was foam rolling on my back and hit a spot between my shoulder blade and spine that replicated the pain in my shoulder - like a knife stabbing into my shoulder. I rolled the sh1t out of that spot for a couple weeks and my shoulder pain went away. Everything is connected.

When lifting, everyone says they do this, but none of us do really - lift SLOW. Drop your cadence to 3 seconds up, 2 second contraction, 3 seconds down or longer. Go nice and slow. You will have to drop your weights to do this in a lot of cases, put your ego away and work on form.

As for squats - same thing. Drop the weight to something light - like an empty bar or 95 pounds and do 5 sets of 15 reps for a week...every other day. Just work on getting the form right and getting blood flowing and getting a stretch down into the bottom. Then slowly add some weight as you work on this. You will be amazed at how much your squat form improves in just a few weeks from this as well as how much some nagging pains go away.

Finally, for a while I used to wake up at 5 and spend 45 minutes doing yoga. I know it sounds lame, but it is humbling and after a week I was sold on the benefits. You can google some videos and get up in the morning and just go through the holds and it's a relaxing way to wake up and you will feel better all day.

I hope some of this helps, it's certainly not super specific to you, but we have some similarities in our journey and those things helped me.
 
Your right. All that’s good stuff. I definitely need to slow down (literally and figuratively) before trying to hit it hard again. And today, went to one of those indoor rock climbing/ninja warrior places and am really screwed up now lol. Both shoulders and back killing me. But also, I know there’s a muscle that’s too tight or something not activating right somewhere else yet connected somehow to my shoulder, I guess I haven’t looked far enough away. I’ll be lacrosse-balling between the shoulder blades tomorrow morning!

Edit: I don’t know about yoga, but my morning stretching and rehab routine takes about 25 minutes already. I could add a little more...
 
@HIT4ME
What you said about the spot between your shoulder blades led me to googling and apparently the rhomboids are also downward rotators of the scapula which contributes to impingement as well. Had no idea. I’ll be rolling that out hard the next few days. Just doing it now increased my overhead ROM dramatically. Apparently something I’ve been missing.
 
Awesome, I am glad it helped. I remember when I found it...it was so random ans it struck me becausw the pain is usually where the ball or roller hits, but it was lile I hit a nerve that actually connected to the front of the shoulder and it was painful in the front. It was the most noticeable time I have ever rolled and pain was in a totally different location then where I rolled. Amd I remember getting up off the floor after and it was like my shoulders suddenly felt a lot better. It came back and still probably took me a few weeks to work out but I believe it helped.

These exercises, particularly the around the world movement, also helped me a lot:

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Also, go on Youtube and start looking for some Yin Yoga videos. Just pick some until you find a few you like and do them a couple times a week even. I think you will be happy.
 
Thanks for the info.

I did some research yesterday, and it looks like the serratus posterior superior is another tight muscle that can cause all kinds of shoulder issues. Tried some ART/lacrosse ball on it and it freed up even more ROM.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Thanks for the info.

I did some research yesterday, and it looks like the serratus posterior superior is another tight muscle that can cause all kinds of shoulder issues. Tried some ART/lacrosse ball on it and it freed up even more ROM.
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Nice. Hope it continues to get better.
 
HIT4ME said:
2-3 weeks of layoff will most likely result in NO muscle loss. I know everyone worries about this, but honestly you may be surprised that most people often come back STRONGER after a layoff like this. You MAY decondition a little and your first few workouts will be rough and you won't be able to lift as much - but it will be more conditioning loss than muscle loss, IMO. And, again, the deconditioning may actually help prime you for new gains when you come back.

If this were me, I would enjoy the time off and focus on resting and recovery. Maybe add in some HICA, HMB and/or leucine - but high protein, BMP and DCP may be enough and the high protein most likely has your leucine needs covered. I would increase fats and avoid having too heavy a deficit while not working out - but a small deficit should be fine.
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Good advice. I have been through this a few times over the last 25 years. You need to take some time off. spend time researching proper shoulder / chest exercises. Jeff Cavaliere has some pretty good stuff on youtube about exercises with bad shoulders. it's a good place to start.

Get rid of straight bar bench! experiment with different hand angles. If it hurts stop doing it. It will take some time but it's kind of fun. There will be lifts you will no longer be able to do again. (depressing at first). I still can hardly do push ups without pain.

I always Decondition for 9-11 days after 7-10 weeks of a particular workout. log your lifts and you will know when it's time for a de-con.(one week of reps or weight decreases)you body will let you know when it's time to decondition.
Make sure you decreases are not do to change in diet / sleep, Ect. (environmental factors can give you false log numbers)

**Always do your shoulder band warm-ups. Find the ones that you can do with minimal pain.
I Have been doing over the head (go to 1:30) of the video. @The Solution turned me onto these a few years ago and It really helps prepare my 56 year old shoulders. I do 50 reps first thing, then 20reps between my first 3 sets of whatever Im doing and I'm ready to go! (even do them on leg day)
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