Higher dose Tongkat Ali

[3ChainedAminos]

Every now and then I run across a brand called LVLUP that pops up on my searches. I’ve never ordered from them before but have noticed some of their products look ok but very expensive. Something I haven’t seen before is their Tongkat Ali, which is extremely high dosed compared to other supplements. It’s 1100mg standardized at 2% Eurycomanone. Which puts it at 22mg per serving. Just curious if anyone has experimented in this dose range before? Ive taken Tongkat Ali stand alone and in a blend before, but never at that high of a dose, so just curious on yalls opinion or experience.

 

[sns8778]

Something important to take into consideration is whether the testing is done via HPLC or UV because UV testing with many herbal constituents will show an artificially high number as compared to HPLC.

I actually would never use or put that high of a dose of Eurycomanone by HPLC in anything - it would not be a good thing in my opinion.

Tongkat Ali XT is 300 mg. at min. 2% and the max dose is 2 per day and I have people ask all the time about exceeding that dose and my answer is do not exceed that dose.

We have been considering doing a 10% Eurycomanone and if we do, the max daily dose will be 10 mg. Eurycomanone per day.

 

[3ChainedAminos]

Something important to take into consideration is whether the testing is done via HPLC or UV because UV testing with many herbal constituents will show an artificially high number as compared to HPLC.

I actually would never use or put that high of a dose of Eurycomanone by HPLC in anything - it would not be a good thing in my opinion.

Tongkat Ali XT is 300 mg. at min. 2% and the max dose is 2 per day and I have people ask all the time about exceeding that dose and my answer is do not exceed that dose.

We have been considering doing a 10% Eurycomanone and if we do, the max daily dose will be 10 mg. Eurycomanone per day.

Yeah I figured that dose was wild because I haven’t seen any other supplement even close to that. And that’s interesting about the HPLC vs UV showing artificially high numbers, I knew the testing method mattered but not about that. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Every now and then I run across a brand called LVLUP that pops up on my searches. I’ve never ordered from them before but have noticed some of their products look ok but very expensive. Something I haven’t seen before is their Tongkat Ali, which is extremely high dosed compared to other supplements. It’s 1100mg standardized at 2% Eurycomanone. Which puts it at 22mg per serving. Just curious if anyone has experimented in this dose range before? Ive taken Tongkat Ali stand alone and in a blend before, but never at that high of a dose, so just curious on yalls opinion or experience.

...Eurycomanone is just an active used to measure long Jack, but long Jack isn't like say Coffee testing for caffeine. It has a wide range of actives, anyway if you need 1100mg of any Long Jack, its more of a 2:1 extract. To get 2% Eurycomanone, you need something up closer to 80:1 or 100:1 and at that true ratio it would be "effective" at no more than 200-250mg a day and that's on the high "AM more is better" dose.

What is "effective" for long jack? When Long Jack works for, you should have higher cellular energy and drive to get out and be active. Long Jack is also better used about 13 days a month at that dose.

This could be 1100mg of a 2% extract but the product would be expensive.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Also to add to this:

1) Long Jack's effects are not linear.
2) Long Jack is an adaptogenic herb.

Something linear would be like adding calories to gain weight—the more excess calories you add, generally the faster you gain. Long Jack doesn't work like that. Like ginseng and rhodiola, there is an effective dose range, and more is not automatically better. Different people may also respond differently to the same dose. That's why I don't agree that someone should automatically take 1,000 mg of Long Jack.

Second, with an herb like Long Jack, the quality and spectrum of the extract matter—not just the percentage of one measurable compound.

Years ago, LJ100 wasn't simply standardized for eurycomanone. It was a Malaysian Long Jack root extract standardized for 40%+ glycosaponins, 28%+ eurypeptides, 30%+ polysaccharides AND a minimum of 0.8% eurycomanone. It is produced from Malaysian root using a patented water-extraction process.

Eurycomanone became a popular standard because it's an active constituent that can be readily measured. That gave manufacturers of other extracts something they could put a number on: 2% eurycomanone.

But 2% eurycomanone does not mean "twice as strong as (or as good as, or 1/2 as good as) LJ100 (100:1) at 1%." Long Jack is a complex botanical, not isolated eurycomanone.

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With all this said, I can't say the 2% extract 1100mg caps is useless or "potent" all I can say is that, no one needs 1100mg of a good Long Jack, you don't even need 1100mg in an entire week of good Long Jack.

 

[THEstudent]

Also to add to this:

1) Long Jack's effects are not linear.
2) Long Jack is an adaptogenic herb.

Something linear would be like adding calories to gain weight—the more excess calories you add, generally the faster you gain. Long Jack doesn't work like that. Like ginseng and rhodiola, there is an effective dose range, and more is not automatically better. Different people may also respond differently to the same dose. That's why I don't agree that someone should automatically take 1,000 mg of Long Jack.

Second, with an herb like Long Jack, the quality and spectrum of the extract matter—not just the percentage of one measurable compound.

Years ago, LJ100 wasn't simply standardized for eurycomanone. It was a Malaysian Long Jack root extract standardized for 40%+ glycosaponins, 28%+ eurypeptides, 30%+ polysaccharides AND a minimum of 0.8% eurycomanone. It is produced from Malaysian root using a patented water-extraction process.

Eurycomanone became a popular standard because it's an active constituent that can be readily measured. That gave manufacturers of other extracts something they could put a number on: 2% eurycomanone.

But 2% eurycomanone does not mean "twice as strong as (or as good as, or 1/2 as good as) LJ100 (100:1) at 1%." Long Jack is a complex botanical, not isolated eurycomanone.

----------------

With all this said, I can't say the 2% extract 1100mg caps is useless or "potent" all I can say is that, no one needs 1100mg of a good Long Jack, you don't even need 1100mg in an entire week of good Long Jack.

You make some very valid points. I remember that about LJ100 and the same applies to tribulus and even ecdysterone. With tribulus protodioscin has been the main isolated compound but the original Tribestan was standardized for protodioscin and protogracillin. With Ecdysterone , 20-hydroxyecdysone was isolated but the original was standardized for what is called 10 levseins which is a specific ratio of ecdysterones, tannins, and resins.

 

[aver4581]

I use lvlup Botanabolic and think it’s amazing

 

[Chuck Diesel]

You make some very valid points. I remember that about LJ100 and the same applies to tribulus and even ecdysterone. With tribulus protodioscin has been the main isolated compound but the original Tribestan was standardized for protodioscin and protogracillin. With Ecdysterone , 20-hydroxyecdysone was isolated but the original was standardized for what is called 10 levseins which is a specific ratio of ecdysterones, tannins, and resins.

You have a good memory. That is exactly true about Tribulus. and Eddystones. Protodioscin was the active to closely relate to DHEA., but Tribulus had/has:

Protodiocin**
Prototribestin
Pseudoprotodioscin**
Protogracillin
Dioscin
Tribestin
Tribulosin
Tribulosaponins A and B**

The actives saponins with the ** where used to qualify. For instance I use to use one that was 60% saponins/20% Protodiocin/5% A/B.

Even with Ephedra, ephedrine was clearly the "stimulant" active, but full spectrum Ephedra worked better. Ephedra Major even more than the popular Ephedra Sinica. Just a trip down memory lane.