High plasma = better endurance?

619sss

Member
So does supplementing plasma expanders lead to better endurance ?

Sodium citrate increase plasma water retention?
Creatine mono for endurance yes or no? Or Creatine nitrate

What supplements for endurance? Cycling,running, etc
 
From what I know sodium bicarbonate has more information in regards to it's ergogenic potential than citrate does, creatine nitrate was recently shown to not positively impact performance. Consistent beta alanine supplementation might help.
 
johnnyp said:
From what I know sodium bicarbonate has more information in regards to it's ergogenic potential than citrate does, creatine nitrate was recently shown to not positively impact performance. Consistent beta alanine supplementation might help.
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The problem with sodium bicarbonate that it causes stomach pain/stress to get the benefits.

I had one guy who did 30g which it he'd had after serious stomach pain...
 
619sss said:
The problem with sodium bicarbonate that it causes stomach pain/stress to get the benefits.

I had one guy who did 30g which it he'd had after serious stomach pain...
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I've seen "loading" it being a suggestion since this is pretty unavoidable.
 
^^^ Interesting. You may have to give that a try.
 
Sodium bicarbonate, high dose of nitrates, citrulline/ citrulline malate, garlic extract, and some other stuff.
 
Synapsin said:
Sodium bicarbonate, high dose of nitrates, citrulline/ citrulline malate, garlic extract, and some other stuff.
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How does Creatine nitrate preform as Vasodilator?

Potassium Nitrate didn't do anything at 4 pills, I force, I don't want to go higher cause I read it's very harmful.

Hydromax seem to be good at 5g+, citrulline malate I can't bare the taste even at 1g, garlic extract where can I find a bulk version?
 
"Ingesting 3 and 6 g/d of creatine nitrate for 7-days had no significant effects on performance measures in comparison to ingesting a placebo. Males were found to be stronger than females, but with significantly lower bench press endurance. Males also performed better on the bicycle tests regarding time to complete the time trial and the average power output associated with the cycling task." Invalid Link Removed

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
619sss said:
How does Creatine nitrate preform as Vasodilator?

Potassium Nitrate didn't do anything at 4 pills, I force, I don't want to go higher cause I read it's very harmful.

Hydromax seem to be good at 5g+, citrulline malate I can't bare the taste even at 1g, garlic extract where can I find a bulk version?
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Creatine nitrate works as a vasodilator but see below. Hydromax would be pointless since you need a much higher level of glycerol for rehydration. Cit mal is definitely worth it and has multiple positive studies, so maybe try masking the flavour or buy caps. Garlic extract isn't tough to find, google it.

johnnyp said:
"Ingesting 3 and 6 g/d of creatine nitrate for 7-days had no significant effects on performance measures in comparison to ingesting a placebo. Males were found to be stronger than females, but with significantly lower bench press endurance. Males also performed better on the bicycle tests regarding time to complete the time trial and the average power output associated with the cycling task." Invalid Link Removed

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Interesting, that is quite a bit of nitrates. I didn't say a particular form of nitrates because I wanted it to include the beet root juice studies (note: beet root juice, not beet root powder since supplements using those provide about 2 mg of nitrates, lol).
 
Synapsin said:
Creatine nitrate works as a vasodilator but see below. Hydromax would be pointless since you need a much higher level of glycerol for rehydration. Cit mal is definitely worth it and has multiple positive studies, so maybe try masking the flavour or buy caps. Garlic extract isn't tough to find, google it.



Interesting, that is quite a bit of nitrates. I didn't say a particular form of nitrates because I wanted it to include the beet root juice studies (note: beet root juice, not beet root powder since supplements using those provide about 2 mg of nitrates, lol).
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I did not get the hydromax to glycerol use, both are plasma expanders?
 
Synapsin said:
I didn't say a particular form of nitrates because I wanted it to include the beet root juice studies (note: beet root juice, not beet root powder since supplements using those provide about 2 mg of nitrates, lol).
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Or 1 can of BEETS period :D
 
619sss said:
You must drink 500ml to get nitrate benefits, and that's a lot
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Incorrect.

1 can (allowing for the water, compared to the baked product in the study) is enough:

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Study
The researchers got 11 fit subjects to run a distance of 5 km on a treadmill on two occasions. On one occasion they did so 75 minutes after eating 200g cooked beets – representing 500 mg nitrate – on the other occasion they did so after eating a placebo containing the same amount of kcals but no nitrate.

Faster
And indeed: the subjects ran faster after eating beetroot. The performance enhancing effect was present over the whole course, but it was only statistically significant over the last 1800 m.

Conclusion
The researchers think that vegetables that are naturally high in nitrates are a good alternative for nitrate-rich supplements. "Although more isolated forms of dietary nitrates (e.g. sodium nitrate) also have ergogenic effects, their long-term safety is questionable", they write. "Although these findings should be confirmed in elite athletes and in exercise tasks of different durations (e.g. marathon running) and modes (e.g. rowing or swimming), they have obvious implications for food and nutrition practitioners in the area of sports nutrition and athletes."

"In addition, these findings might have relevance in clinical dietetics if the ergogenic effects of nitrate-rich vegetables also benefit individuals with compromised functional capacity such as patients with heart failure and frail elderly persons."

"From a practical perspective, evidence from our study suggests that for ergogenic effects, 200 g baked beetroot, or an equivalent nitrate dose from other vegetables, should be consumed approximately 60 minutes before exercise."
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619sss said:
I did not get the hydromax to glycerol use, both are plasma expanders?
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Glycerol is often used in 30-40 gram doses in hospitals via IV. 3-5 grams of hydromax provides a good pump but ultimately will not re-hydrate you; it is pointless for endurance.
 
Synapsin said:
Glycerol is often used in 30-40 gram doses in hospitals via IV. 3-5 grams of hydromax provides a good pump but ultimately will not re-hydrate you; it is pointless for endurance.
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IV? It's not oral ??

I read glycerol increase water weight by 1kg after supplementing 1.2g/kg
 
619sss said:
IV? It's not oral ??

I read glycerol increase water weight by 1kg after supplementing 1.2g/kg
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1.2g per kilogram? So if you weigh 90kg, then over 108g of glycerol?
 
Jiigzz said:
1.2g per kilogram? So if you weigh 90kg, then over 108g of glycerol?
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See what I mean? lol. A lot of people don't realize how much glycerol it actually takes unless they work in a clinical setting.

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For example, they used 50 grams of glycerol via IV in this study in humans. Decent reviews on the topic:

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Synapsin said:
See what I mean? lol. A lot of people don't realize how much glycerol it actually takes unless they work in a clinical setting.

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For example, they used 50 grams of glycerol via IV in this study in humans. Decent reviews on the topic:

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Seems like less is needed to maintain hydration/ delay dehydration (0.125g/kg) as opposed to 1.2g per kg to increase fluid retention.

Can't see anyone really needing to do the latter in most situations though
 
Relative to the beetroot comments

Effects of a Short-Term High-Nitrate Diet on Exercise Performance
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"It has been reported that nitrate supplementation can improve exercise performance. Most of the studies have used either beetroot juice or sodium nitrate as a supplement; there is lack of data on the potential ergogenic benefits of an increased dietary nitrate intake from a diet based on fruits and vegetables. Our aim was to assess whether a high-nitrate diet increases nitric oxide bioavailability and to evaluate the effects of this nutritional intervention on exercise performance. Seven healthy male subjects participated in a randomized cross-over study. They were tested before and after 6 days of a high (HND) or control (CD) nitrate diet (~8.2 mmol∙day−1 or ~2.9 mmol∙day−1, respectively). Plasma nitrate and nitrite concentrations were significantly higher in HND (127 ± 64 µM and 350 ± 120 nM, respectively) compared to CD (23 ± 10 µM and 240 ± 100 nM, respectively). In HND (vs. CD) were observed: (a) a significant reduction of oxygen consumption during moderate-intensity constant work-rate cycling exercise (1.178 ± 0.141 vs. 1.269 ± 0.136 L·min−1); (b) a significantly higher total muscle work during fatiguing, intermittent sub-maximal isometric knee extension (357.3 ± 176.1 vs. 253.6 ± 149.0 Nm·s·kg−1); (c) an improved performance in Repeated Sprint Ability test. These findings suggest that a high-nitrate diet could be a feasible and effective strategy to improve exercise performance.
 
619sss said:
I'll try 100g in 500ml every hour before 3 hours cycling
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Read also the fluid intake recommendations for glycerol intake. 300g in 1.5L is crazy excessive
 
619sss said:
100g in 1.5l ? Or 150g?
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1.2g of glycerol per kg of BW in 26mL per kg of BW of fluid

Wouldn't really suggest that much though unless you're a competitive athlete. Could experiment though
 
johnnyp said:
Relative to the beetroot comments

Effects of a Short-Term High-Nitrate Diet on Exercise Performance
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"It has been reported that nitrate supplementation can improve exercise performance. Most of the studies have used either beetroot juice or sodium nitrate as a supplement; there is lack of data on the potential ergogenic benefits of an increased dietary nitrate intake from a diet based on fruits and vegetables. Our aim was to assess whether a high-nitrate diet increases nitric oxide bioavailability and to evaluate the effects of this nutritional intervention on exercise performance. Seven healthy male subjects participated in a randomized cross-over study. They were tested before and after 6 days of a high (HND) or control (CD) nitrate diet (~8.2 mmol∙day−1 or ~2.9 mmol∙day−1, respectively). Plasma nitrate and nitrite concentrations were significantly higher in HND (127 ± 64 µM and 350 ± 120 nM, respectively) compared to CD (23 ± 10 µM and 240 ± 100 nM, respectively). In HND (vs. CD) were observed: (a) a significant reduction of oxygen consumption during moderate-intensity constant work-rate cycling exercise (1.178 ± 0.141 vs. 1.269 ± 0.136 L·min−1); (b) a significantly higher total muscle work during fatiguing, intermittent sub-maximal isometric knee extension (357.3 ± 176.1 vs. 253.6 ± 149.0 Nm·s·kg−1); (c) an improved performance in Repeated Sprint Ability test. These findings suggest that a high-nitrate diet could be a feasible and effective strategy to improve exercise performance.
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Glad you found this :) From what I recall, there are over 10 positive nitrate studies (creatine nitrate aside).
 
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