High Blood Pressure on Cycle, Need Help!!!

Dchristo

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Been on 500mg of Test E for 4 weeks, started getting headaches, so i got my BP checked and it was 156/80.
This is my first cycle and prior to this cycle my BP was around 128/82.
I'm currently taking Cycle Support by AI, fish oil, multi, using .5mg letro eod, and doin cardio 3x a week.

What should i do to lower my BP? Or should i stop my cycle?

Any help is appreciated, thanks guys
 
Jethro52185

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I'm no dr., but that's not that high. Granted, it's not ideal, but look at what you are taking. Personally I would just monitor it closely and if it gets any higher, then see what you need to do to get it back down.
 
ManBeast

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Look into Hawthorne Berry.

ManBeast
 

warsteiner

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128/82 is a high-normal so if this was your reading prior to this cycle then there is a good chance that you have higher blood pressure than normal. Taking any anabolics will only make this worse and Cycle Assist may not be enough to stop the bp rise.

Your situation sounds similar to mine. Everytime my bp was measured by a doctor from about the age of 18 it was 130/80. Now that I am 41 it's high enough (143/87) to need a low dose bp medication. Prior to this when I would take a fairly mild PH (Epi) my bp would be about 160/100 and this was with Cycle Assist or a similar poduct.

Whether you stop the cycle or not is really up to you. I would definitely keep an eye on the bp and if it gets much higher then stop. With my bp I have never had any headaches even when I was running an PH so this could be being caused by not drinking enough water rather than the bp increase.

I'd say increase your water intake and keep an eye on the bp. If the headaches don't stop within a week or the bp increases then stop. How long were you intending to take the test?
 
Matthersby

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Thats right where mine is since week 2. It's something to look at, and take some action, not freak out over. I work with chronic hypertensive patients and I'm not alarmed seeing up to 165/90. Now as an athlete, thats a bit high but there are things you can that should help. I'm just going to give you a list of things that I've read on forums helped. Some could be total broscience b.s.. I'm not telling you they work or that you should take them. I went ahead and started ALL of them just to be sure and mine is much better now.

Hawthorne berries
Ginkgo
CoQ10
10 grams fish oil daily
Asprin 100 mg 2-3 times daily
Arimidex .25 mg e3d.

hope this helps.
 
waynaferd

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cardio, water, low-sodium foods, etc, also play a big role in BP....make sure you're getting enough of the first two!!
 

Dchristo

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Thanks everyone for the advice, you've put my mind at ease. I'm going to lower my sodium intake, and try and calm down for a few days and see if that lowers it. And if it doesnt i'll look into some of the products mentioned above.

Thanks
 
AntM1564

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How much water are you drinking? Also, how much sodium are you eating per day? You might need to decrease the sodium and increase the water.

As far as supps go, Celery Seed Extract is the best thing for this IMO. Cycle support already has some, but you can dose more without a problem.
 
ManBeast

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Be careful with asprin if you are running any methylated orals as it too is hepatoxic.

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Matthersby

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Acetametaphin(tylenol) is hepatoxic.
Asprin is known for gastrointestinal toxicity and ulcers. Ibu for renal issues. Tylenol is by far the most toxic even in low doses. The others are known for problems at high doses for long periods of time and both rarely hepatoxic. It's always a good practice to avoid any medication on methylated orals though.
 
DetroitHammer

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128/82 is fine, especially for being on cycle. If you went to a doctor and he took one reading then you really have no idea what your BP is. I have a very good machine and take my BP throughout the day very frequently. I have the machine at my computer so when the mood hits, I take a reading. I can range from 135/82 to 111/68 in the same day. BP is not static; it's in a constant state of flux. You need to take a reading maybe 5xs a day then average it out. So many things affect a reading that you can't rely on one sitting for an accurate reading. Anyone on cycle should have a BP machine along with PCT as a "must have" in my opinion.
 
ManBeast

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TY for clearing that all up.

ManBeast

Acetametaphin(tylenol) is hepatoxic.
Asprin is known for gastrointestinal toxicity and ulcers. Ibu for renal issues. Tylenol is by far the most toxic even in low doses. The others are known for problems at high doses for long periods of time and both rarely hepatoxic. It's always a good practice to avoid any medication on methylated orals though.
 
DetroitHammer

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Acetametaphin(tylenol) is hepatoxic.
Asprin is known for gastrointestinal toxicity and ulcers. Ibu for renal issues. Tylenol is by far the most toxic even in low doses. The others are known for problems at high doses for long periods of time and both rarely hepatoxic. It's always a good practice to avoid any medication on methylated orals though.
My understanding is that Ibuprofen is more hepatotoxic than anadrol or dbol. So to put it into perspective, anadrol may not be a dire concern like those medical experts cry about. But I agree with you on all the above.
 

liftin4fun

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Honestly water is usually the most important part for me on cycle. I always use the regular staples:
Hawthorne berries
Garlic
CoQ10
10 grams fish oil daily

Drinking 1 1/2 gallons a day keeps me under 140. With a gallon or less I go to 160-165...
 

Dchristo

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How much water are you drinking? Also, how much sodium are you eating per day? You might need to decrease the sodium and increase the water.

As far as supps go, Celery Seed Extract is the best thing for this IMO. Cycle support already has some, but you can dose more without a problem.
I feel like i drink plenty of water a day, i just refill my water bottle so i'm not sure exactly how much, but i will increase it.
Cycle Support has 1000mg of hawthorne berry, and 150mg celery seed extract, what should i up the dose to?
 
waynaferd

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I carry around a 1 liter water bottle and don't refill it til its empty, so I know how much I drank....I aim for 4 but usually fail miserably, LOL.
 
AntM1564

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I feel like i drink plenty of water a day, i just refill my water bottle so i'm not sure exactly how much, but i will increase it.
Cycle Support has 1000mg of hawthorne berry, and 150mg celery seed extract, what should i up the dose to?
NOW Celerey Seed Extract is 100mg a serving. Try to add one, maybe two servings and see what happens.

Also, do you know exactly how much water you are drinking? Most people say plenty, but fail at estimating. I would use a gallon and bring it with you. At the gym I use a liter bottle. So if I go through my full gallon and a quarter of it again, and 1 liter at the gym, I am getting 1.5 gallons.
 
waynaferd

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Also check out NOW super-antioxidants.....it like a mini cycle support....that and their ADAM vitamins are my favorites year round...the above post just reminded me of that...
 
Matthersby

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I have become a NOW enthusiast this last year. Fantastic products. ADAM is imo the best male multi out there for the price.
 
grngoloco

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Arginine lowers blood pressure and also acts as a great NO booster.....
 
grngoloco

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Competitive edge labs has a great cycle support and PCT support at one of yhe best prices I've seen... also it lists the exact amount of every ingredient,,, proprietary blends are for fools and slaves to marketing!!!
 
mattrag

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Hawthorn berry, lower the salts if having a lot of carbs, get the overall heart health up too.
Taurine is said to improve blood flow so that might help things a bit
I try to stay away from all other OTC pain killers all year ( been pain killer free for over three years) so I can't really recommend the aspirin, or comment but that was some good info earlier about Tylenol and ibuprofen.
 
grngoloco

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Milk thistle behaves a lot like asprin by thinning the blood
 
grngoloco

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But seriously,,, all those supplements people mention help your body tolerate high blood pressure, but the only thing I know that ACTUALLY LOWERS BLOOD PRESSURE, scientifically proven over and over is arginine.
 

Dchristo

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Updates: For the past 3 days I upped my water intake to 1.5 gallons a day.
I also upped the dose on celery seed extract to 250mg a day.
Still taking 1000mg of hawthorne berry a day.
And i've cut my sodium intake as dramatically as i can.

My BP reading today was 161/84, 135/72, 144/80 measured 5 min apart.

I'm very discouraged at this point and not sure what to do.

I'm thinking of ending my cycle, although i really don't want to cause i'm finally seeing the benefits of it, and the last four weeks will have been a waste.

Any other advice? I'd really appreciate it
 
mattrag

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Updates: For the past 3 days I upped my water intake to 1.5 gallons a day.
I also upped the dose on celery seed extract to 250mg a day.
Still taking 1000mg of hawthorne berry a day.
And i've cut my sodium intake as dramatically as i can.

My BP reading today was 161/84, 135/72, 144/80 measured 5 min apart.

I'm very discouraged at this point and not sure what to do.

I'm thinking of ending my cycle, although i really don't want to cause i'm finally seeing the benefits of it, and the last four weeks will have been a waste.

Any other advice? I'd really appreciate it
You could be just stressing out before you take it. And it is causing the readings to be off.
I tend to take upwards of 3 grams on cycle of Hawthorne Berry. I wouldn't end your cycle unless you are getting all the symptoms of high blood pressure along with the high readings. Though truthfully, high blood pressure is said to be a silent killer (no real symptoms), i think if you were healthy going into the cycle and dont see any sides aside from the number then i'd say keep going. If it was me that is. If you really are worried about it though I would just stop.
 
Matthersby

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Again, from one of the few healthcare workers here, these are not cycle-ending bp's. Cut out caffeine and stims, try taurine and arginine. Stop worrying, google some other alternatives, take a baby asprin every 3-4 hours.... Attack this from a few more angles. We don't even give meds at my work until their systolic breaks 200. Would that high reading you got be good year round? No... For the remainder of your cycle, I personally would try alot more proactive counter-measures before I threw in the towel.
 
mattrag

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Again, from one of the few healthcare workers here, these are not cycle-ending bp's. Cut out caffeine and stims, try taurine and arginine. Stop worrying, google some other alternatives, take a baby asprin every 3-4 hours.... Attack this from a few more angles. We don't even give meds at my work until their systolic breaks 200. Would that high reading you got be good year round? No... For the remainder of your cycle, I personally would try alot more proactive counter-measures before I threw in the towel.
Agree here. If you are still on stims too cut those out. I tend to not like aspirin, but if you have to use it to keep from cutting the cycle short use it. And yea... 160/84 is not THAT bad. But like I said, if you are worried... it is your body. I have started a cycle with 140/80. And during cycle my bp went down. The highest I went on cycle was 150/76. But I took 3 grams of hawthorne berry ED and 5g of taurine 3x a day.
 
Matthersby

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Yea I didn't even mention I had this same issue a week and a half ago and googled it nonstop... I added taurine powder 3 g daily along w my regiment of low-dose asprin, .25 mg arimidex, hawthorne, ginkgo, coQ10, and fish oil. I had a face that looked like a cherry tomato and could feel my pulse in my temples and neck. One, some, or all of these has helped me drop my bp from around 160/90 to 135/78.
 
DetroitHammer

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Again, from one of the few healthcare workers here, these are not cycle-ending bp's. Cut out caffeine and stims, try taurine and arginine. Stop worrying, google some other alternatives, take a baby asprin every 3-4 hours.... Attack this from a few more angles. We don't even give meds at my work until their systolic breaks 200. Would that high reading you got be good year round? No... For the remainder of your cycle, I personally would try alot more proactive counter-measures before I threw in the towel.
Exactly! As I said in an early post here, my BP fluctuates throughout the day like OPs. Good advice...
 
scoooter

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BP measurements when being compared need to occur at the same time of day. Typically, in the a.m. upon waking it'll be lowest because its at a "resting" rate. Only need to do this once, not repeated measurements

Celery seed with 3nB is best, (natural factors)

Hawthorn can help but takes several grams and needs time to take effect which is why a preload time and celery seed is recommended.

Arginine is a vasodilator, it opens the blood vessels making them bigger to carry the volume of blood easier. With less restriction due to the open vessels the blood moves more efficiently so there is no need for there to be raised pressure.

The method of measurement should also be consistent. A mercury measure, usually in the doctors office, has been reported as one of the better ways for accuracy. I had one of those drug store digital ones for the wrist and it was WAY off. That caused me to panic which made things worse. Taking a measurement yourself with a pump cuff is not the easist thingt o do at first. Also if you have huge arems you'll need the cuff size to match.
 
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BP measurements when being compared need to occur at the same time of day. Typically, in the a.m. upon waking it'll be lowest because its at a "resting" rate. Only need to do this once, not repeated measurements

Celery seed with 3nB is best, (natural factors)

Hawthorn can help but takes several grams and needs time to take effect which is why a preload time and celery seed is recommended.

Arginine is a vasodilator, it opens the blood vessels making them bigger to carry the volume of blood easier. With less restriction due to the open vessels the blood moves more efficiently so there is no need for there to be raised pressure.

The method of measurement should also be consistent. A mercury measure, usually in the doctors office, has been reported as one of the better ways for accuracy. I had one of those drug store digital ones for the wrist and it was WAY off. That caused me to panic which made things worse. Taking a measurement yourself with a pump cuff is not the easist thingt o do at first. Also if you have huge arems you'll need the cuff size to match.
I preload Hawthorn Berrie 2g for two weks before ccyle, and I will be adding CSE after doing more reserach.
 

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ur blood pressure isnt that bad, and if u freaked out about it once u probably now have white coat syndrome aka ur gonna get a slight jolt of adrenaline epinephrine and nor-epinephrine every time u put an arm band on so ur results are probably going to be skewd some what from that... honestly i wouldnt worry about ur bp as it stands, however if ur diastolic goes over 90 for too long u will probably be looking at ventricular hypertrophy and thats not good cause its pretty much irreversible, not neccessarily a life killer and most likely going to happen to u anyways the higher and longer u stay on steroids but just something to be aware of. and dont freak out too much higher bp is a common side effect and as long as it stays within reason a relative short amount of time on a cycle wont be too detrimental... however if u started taking steroids cause u thought they would make u healthier then just stop now cause thats not the truth.
 
DetroitHammer

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its probably the water retention causing ur problem. an otc diuretic might help. dandelion, celery seed, etc. ur reading aint that high. mine was 140 over 95 or so for years. i'm not sayin hbp isn't dangerous but i have friends and family that have blood pressure reading higher than that all the time.
Mine was always about 150/85 or there about. What I didn't realize was that it's very hard on the kidneys. You can get bloodwork that shows the EGFR and you'll get some idea if your kidneys are damaged.
 
Matthersby

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Mine was always about 150/85 or there about. What I didn't realize was that it's very hard on the kidneys. You can get bloodwork that shows the EGFR and you'll get some idea if your kidneys are damaged.
^ true ^ add in how much protein most of us force down daily and you've got a nasty combo. Luckily, almost all of us will be fine though. >90% of those with kidney failure had uncontrolable hypertension or severe type 1 diabetes, or both..
 
DetroitHammer

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^ true ^ add in how much protein most of us force down daily and you've got a nasty combo. Luckily, almost all of us will be fine though. >90% of those with kidney failure had uncontrolable hypertension or severe type 1 diabetes, or both..
You young guys are pretty safe from a lot of the long term consequenses right now, and I envy your ability to blast like a beast and remain relatively unscathed. I felt I was immune from the sides, until they started to catch up. I'm sensitive to DHT, but tolerate E2 pretty well. This past summer, after a hard blast that included (amoung other things) tren and anadrol, my DHT was over the top. My avatar was taken a day before I was admitted in the hospital for prostatitis. Never saw it coming. The doctors all think my kidneys failed to function properly with all that gear, causing an infection, which eventually closed the prostrate totally. I had to have a cathater inserted for four days to pass urine. My theory is that I allowed DHT to build unchecked and that's what swelled my prostrate, backing up the urine, causing the infection.

So, my advice is to keep getting blood panels so you can baseline and monitor your vitals. It's a domino effect waiting to happen if you throw caution to the wind. But you guys are all quite educated on AAS and know what you're doing. Man Beast is great, but his avatar scares me.
 
ManBeast

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I really wish the young guys wanting to blow up overnight would read these things and take ya seriously Hammer, and I hope you are recovering well.

ManBeast
 
grngoloco

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I am really new to aas.... taking test cyp 200mg a week and 12 pumps androgel a day which gives me an absorbed amount of 15mg test a day,,,, bringing me to just over 305 mg a week...also taking adex .5 mg eod.... have hcg and injectable b12 on the way...... are there any dht blockers worth buying and is this something I have to concern myself with????
 
san731

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Interesting stuff. How would one monitor prostate function via a metabolic panel lab? Maybe look at gfr or the other kidney labs since an inflamed prostate would affect kidney function?
 
Matthersby

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You young guys are pretty safe from a lot of the long term consequenses right now, and I envy your ability to blast like a beast and remain relatively unscathed. I felt I was immune from the sides, until they started to catch up. I'm sensitive to DHT, but tolerate E2 pretty well. This past summer, after a hard blast that included (amoung other things) tren and anadrol, my DHT was over the top. My avatar was taken a day before I was admitted in the hospital for prostatitis. Never saw it coming. The doctors all think my kidneys failed to function properly with all that gear, causing an infection, which eventually closed the prostrate totally. I had to have a cathater inserted for four days to pass urine. My theory is that I allowed DHT to build unchecked and that's what swelled my prostrate, backing up the urine, causing the infection.

So, my advice is to keep getting blood panels so you can baseline and monitor your vitals. It's a domino effect waiting to happen if you throw caution to the wind. But you guys are all quite educated on AAS and know what you're doing. Man Beast is great, but his avatar scares me.
DH, just wanted to thank you for your consistantly solid advice and expertise. I'm curious about what you use for prostate support now and also what you would reccomend in lieu of deca as an injectable bulker. (recently read you didn't like it.)
/end thread hijack
 
DetroitHammer

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Interesting stuff. How would one monitor prostate function via a metabolic panel lab? Maybe look at gfr or the other kidney labs since an inflamed prostate would affect kidney function?
I think most of you have read the recent studies on PSA and that the National Cancer Institute has found that a PSA level isn't such a good predictor of prostate cancer and can lead to many unnecessary biopsies. Many conditions can affect a PSA level, and many with a low PSA still develop cancer. I do not pay much attention to my PSA, which was 5.7 two weeks ago. Yesterday my doctor suggested getting a biopsy for peace of mind, I explained my position and he agreed. By the way, I get my blood panel done by LabCorp on my own, so by the time I see the doctor, I already have results... What I check for prostrate health are the eGFR, Serum Creatine, BUN, Calcium, Potassium, iron and DHEA. All of those affect kidney functions and if the kidney is showing signs of stress, then the prostrate will follow.

Let me get back to the blood panel and precautions ins a second. The medical community says that as we age, testosterone levels go down, DHT goes up and E2 goes up. I have not seen any rationale as to how DHT can go up if your test goes down, since DHT is a by product of test. I fully understand how E2 levels go up, by I'm not really convinced that DHT levels go up. What I think happens is that receptors may be more sensitive to DHT as our test levels go down, but I do not believe that DHT levels actually go up. But I cannot prove my point; it's only an opinion.

After my bout with prostatitis, I went from a TRT dose of 400/500 down to 200mgs per week. Within a month my test levels were within range, but my DHT was 131; the range is 30-85. My E2 was 18. So for some reason even with a normal level of test, my DHT is high, which on the surface supports the theory that as we age, DHT goes up for some reason. Still, that doesn't make sense since DHT is dependent upon the amount of test, so there has to be a ratio of test to DHT. Unless that ratio goes up as we age, I don't quite understand why my DHT didn't go down proportionately unless DHT stays in the blood much longer than test and therefore has a longer life, which I think is the case, so my DHT was still high from the anadrol and tren. But I'm merely speculating.

If you take any of the DHT blockers like Proscar, you're blocking all DHT activity, much like aromasen does estrogen, which cancels out the benefits of taking test to begin with. So I take Flomax,Tamsulosin, which binds to special proteins called alpha-1a adrenoceptors, which control signaling between the nervous system and the smooth muscle cells in the urinary system. When tamsulosin binds to these receptors, it blocks them, which keeps them from sending signals to tighten the smooth muscle. Tamsulosin is a selective alpha-blocker, sort of a SERM for the prostrate.

I need to do more experiments because quite frankly, my life depends on it. I'm going to blast a little starting next week, going from 200mgs of test to 400mgs per wk and ad 25mg of anadrol per day. Nothing too crazy, but significant. I am going to use aromasen EOD. Why, you may ask? Well, there seems to be an increase in DHT binding, even levels, when E2 goes up. So if I can control my DHT to the prostrate while blasting with aromasin, then there has to be an absolute connection between the ratio of E2 and DHT, not just Test and DHT. I will continue on Flomax, probably, but I'm not certain I will yet.

I know I didn't really answer anyone's questions, but in all honesty I don't know the answers, and apparently neither does my doctor. I could just stay on 200mg a wk and remain pretty healthy, but I'm curious now and want to know. As a side note, dropping down to 200mgs a week made very little difference from blasting at 1gram. My lifts are the same, but I can feel it more in my joints. My weight is the same. Any input would be welcomed. But remember, I'm a lot older than you guys and I don't have your resilience so your bodies are much more forgiving than mine. (I didn't re-read this, I just hit send, so sorry for any errors)
 

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