Help with training around chronic tendonosis

glipp

glipp

Member
Hi everyone,I am a 46, almost 47 year old male who has had chronic tendonosis in my l. arm since injuring my arm with pull-ups in 2008. Let me start by telling you what I have tried, with a small measure of success. I have used every supplement known to man it seems, Cissus, Glucosamine/MSM/ Chondroitin, Fish Oil, Glutamine, NSAID's, etc. Even tried a round of IGF-1. Honestly not sure any of this did a whole lot. I tried rest, heat, ice, tennis elbow straps, lifting w/straps (not sure I used them correctly however as I think I further injured my elbow trying to do pull-ups with straps) had MRI's that revealed nothing, physical therapy that didn't work, also tried the classic routine you find everywhere on the internet involving stretching the extensor and flexor muscles, and strengthening the extensor, flexor, deviator, pronator and supinator muscles. Also tried ART (Active Release Therapy). Probably a number of other things I have tried over the years that I am just not remembering. The only thing I have found that sort of works for me is when I have a flare up, doing the tendonosis protocol where you drop to extremely light weights (talking 2 or 3 lb dumbells for curls) and focus on fast/high reps until the arm feels better (I believe this works by getting more blood flow to the tendons, which tend to have very low blood flow, to aid in healing) Then once the arm feels better I very gradually work the weight back up, but I can never do much weight or volume at all for upper body (talking 1 set of each exercise in a full body routine, 2x per week with say 115 lbs. for 15 reps on flat bench, 60 lbs. for 15 reps for front lat pulldowns, 15 lb dumbells for curls, there are other exercises in the routine, just gave examples to give an idea of volume and lbs.) I am currently in a flare up because I made the mistake of going from 1 set of each exercise at these weights to 2 sets of each exercise. Sorry to yammer on for so long, but I want people to clearly understand my situation. My question is has anyone found a way to train around elbow/arm tendonosis and still be able to work back, biceps, etc. the exercises which require pulling movements, at decent levels of volume and weight. If so what is your routine, and what was your rehab routine. I am tired of the flare ups and consistently low weight and volume. Any help would be much appreciated.
 
I've had the same issue in both of elbows and the only thing I have found that has helped is never going extremely heavy and focus on contracting the muscle as much as you can. Also make sure you are getting at least 2 days of rest in between pulling movements. I know for myself the worst is heavy deadlifts and pullups. When I'm having flare ups I stick to light weight lat pulldowns and variations of medium weight deadlifts/romanian deadlifts. I take 6g of fish oil daily and I never miss a cissus dose. Even with this protocol I still have flare ups but they are nowhere near as bad as they were years ago. HGH therapy supposedly can make a world of difference but I don't have experience with that at this point.
 
Axillist said:
I've had the same issue in both of elbows and the only thing I have found that has helped is never going extremely heavy and focus on contracting the muscle as much as you can. Also make sure you are getting at least 2 days of rest in between pulling movements. I know for myself the worst is heavy deadlifts and pullups. When I'm having flare ups I stick to light weight lat pulldowns and variations of medium weight deadlifts/romanian deadlifts. I take 6g of fish oil daily and I never miss a cissus dose. Even with this protocol I still have flare ups but they are nowhere near as bad as they were years ago. HGH therapy supposedly can make a world of difference but I don't have experience with that at this point.
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Appreciate the response. I am totally unable to do pull-ups, have to stick to lat pulldowns. I also find that dead lifts can really aggravate my arm. I have a couple questions I was hoping you could answer, if you feel comfortable. Is there a lifting program you found helpful or switched to once you developed the problems with your arms? Also is there anything else you do when you have a flare up besides sticking to light weight pulldowns and medium weight dead lifts/Romanian dead lifts? A totally separate issue, but equally annoying, is I can also develop plantar fasciitis from squatting or deadlifts, anyone have suggestions for this issue? Thanks again for any help. Open to anyone else that has suggestions too.
 
If you notice any exercise worsens the problem avoid it. I stopped doing pullups altogether for more than 6 months. I simply did lat pulldowns or the assisted pullup machine. Instead of deadlifts target those muscle groups individually such as back hyperextensions,good mornings, and hamstring curls. Machines are your friend as well while you are healing! Also, make sure that you adequately warm up when doing any weight bearing exercise.

I also find that a lot of the problems can arise from a lack of a stretching program especially plantar fasciitis. At the end of every workout devote 10 minutes to stretching and foam rolling. You will find that this wont completely eliminate the problem but it will certainly help. As far as squats you may find that increasing your heel height will help reduce the plantar fasciitis feeling. I personally purchased squat shoes for this but some people just opt to put a 10 or 25 pound plate underneath their heel while squatting. This doesn't fix the problem but it allows you to work around the limited mobility.

If you want any more info feel free to shoot me a pm.
 
Axillist said:
If you notice any exercise worsens the problem avoid it. I stopped doing pullups altogether for more than 6 months. I simply did lat pulldowns or the assisted pullup machine. Instead of deadlifts target those muscle groups individually such as back hyperextensions,good mornings, and hamstring curls. Machines are your friend as well while you are healing! Also, make sure that you adequately warm up when doing any weight bearing exercise.

I also find that a lot of the problems can arise from a lack of a stretching program especially plantar fasciitis. At the end of every workout devote 10 minutes to stretching and foam rolling. You will find that this wont completely eliminate the problem but it will certainly help. As far as squats you may find that increasing your heel height will help reduce the plantar fasciitis feeling. I personally purchased squat shoes for this but some people just opt to put a 10 or 25 pound plate underneath their heel while squatting. This doesn't fix the problem but it allows you to work around the limited mobility.

If you want any more info feel free to shoot me a pm.
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Appreciate the advice, great info. Appreciate the offer to PM as well. May take you up on that at some point.
 
have a look at Jointhelp by iforce and also look into castor oil wraps
the joint help works well at relieving acute pain and helps to heal sore joints. I do castor oil wraps at night to help with inflammation and lubrication.
as always icing is crucial too... make sure you ice after training for a few 15 mins sessions.
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xR1pp3Rx said:
have a look at Jointhelp by iforce and also look into castor oil wraps
the joint help works well at relieving acute pain and helps to heal sore joints. I do castor oil wraps at night to help with inflammation and lubrication.
as always icing is crucial too... make sure you ice after training for a few 15 mins sessions.
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Thanks man. Appreciate it. I will check it out.
 
Few things that I have done to help it out:
Even out your arm routine, and incorporate some forearm exercises. Follow this with a lot of stretching.
I bought Fat Grips but you can use a towel or some thick foam padding from the hardware store to create your own. Started out using in only one exercise EOD and then slowly moved to ED for one exercise. It has kept it back pretty well.
I also stated taking Joint Help. From personal experience this stuff has helped immensely.

Hope this helps, tendonitis is a ****ty feeling.
 
You could definitely do the recommended above and also use some Fish Oil the mint infused kind as that will have with inflammation reduction.
 
veaderko said:
Few things that I have done to help it out:
Even out your arm routine, and incorporate some forearm exercises. Follow this with a lot of stretching.
I bought Fat Grips but you can use a towel or some thick foam padding from the hardware store to create your own. Started out using in only one exercise EOD and then slowly moved to ED for one exercise. It has kept it back pretty well.
I also stated taking Joint Help. From personal experience this stuff has helped immensely.

Hope this helps, tendonitis is a ****ty feeling.
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I've always wondered about the fat grips. I still struggle with tendonitis and i've been thinking about spending a little cash to see if they work well.
 
Axillist said:
I've had the same issue in both of elbows and the only thing I have found that has helped is never going extremely heavy and focus on contracting the muscle as much as you can. Also make sure you are getting at least 2 days of rest in between pulling movements. I know for myself the worst is heavy deadlifts and pullups. When I'm having flare ups I stick to light weight lat pulldowns ..... Even with this protocol I still have flare ups but they are nowhere near as bad as they were years ago. HGH therapy supposedly can make a world of difference but I don't have experience with that at this point.
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I agree with "axillist" Ive battled this injury for 30 years now... slow and discipline lifts ..with lighter weight....are the best ways to work around this injury... I find myself to have more density in my muscle mass now ... everything else just seems to mask the injury and eventually making it worst!
 
Axillist said:
I've always wondered about the fat grips. I still struggle with tendonitis and i've been thinking about spending a little cash to see if they work well.
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They can be a great tool if your listen to your body. I have had tendonitis come and go for the better part of 5 years and since I started organizing a more balanced arm training program and incorporate fat grips in at least one exercise (ALWAYS STRICT FORM) this has been the longest I have kept it away
 
veaderko said:
Few things that I have done to help it out:
Even out your arm routine, and incorporate some forearm exercises. Follow this with a lot of stretching.
I bought Fat Grips but you can use a towel or some thick foam padding from the hardware store to create your own. Started out using in only one exercise EOD and then slowly moved to ED for one exercise. It has kept it back pretty well.
I also stated taking Joint Help. From personal experience this stuff has helped immensely.

Hope this helps, tendonitis is a ****ty feeling.
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When you say even out the arm routine, what do you mean exactly? I don't really do any forearm work, as I have found it can make things worse for me ie: forearm work on top of the work my forearms take doing my usual exercises. As you can see from my original post, I don't exactly lift heavy weights or do much volume either, but this is where I have had to start in order to avoid a flare up, and when I went from 1 set of each exercise 2x per week to 2 sets for one workout, I got a flare up. I am open to input though. I am also curious about using Fat Grips, or some foam padding, do you do the forearm work and use the Fat Grips? What do you feel is the best exercise to start with in using the Fat Grips? Sorry for all the questions, but after fighting this since 2008 I am desperate to get to some level of respectable lifting again.
 
glipp said:
When you say even out the arm routine, what do you mean exactly? I don't really do any forearm work, as I have found it can make things worse for me ie: forearm work on top of the work my forearms take doing my usual exercises. As you can see from my original post, I don't exactly lift heavy weights or do much volume either, but this is where I have had to start in order to avoid a flare up, and when I went from 1 set of each exercise 2x per week to 2 sets for one workout, I got a flare up. I am open to input though. I am also curious about using Fat Grips, or some foam padding, do you do the forearm work and use the Fat Grips? What do you feel is the best exercise to start with in using the Fat Grips? Sorry for all the questions, but after fighting this since 2008 I am desperate to get to some level of respectable lifting again.
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I first started with knowing that bi and tri exercise hurt. After figuring that out I started to incorporate them into my routine. Some things I added w/o fat grips are Rev BB Curls.

But I also stretched my forearm after EVER arm exercise. It has taken about a month of stretching, working, supplements, and listening to my elbow. I know it sucks, but after a month of strict and constant work I got it to work.

By balance I mean ALL of the arm. Doesnt have to be heavy weight even light weight but its about forcing blood into the muscles to pad the joints. I do small arm work based of my other heavy lifts before hand, just to warm up.

I hope this helps
 
veaderko said:
I first started with knowing that bi and tri exercise hurt. After figuring that out I started to incorporate them into my routine. Some things I added w/o fat grips are Rev BB Curls.

But I also stretched my forearm after EVER arm exercise. It has taken about a month of stretching, working, supplements, and listening to my elbow. I know it sucks, but after a month of strict and constant work I got it to work.

By balance I mean ALL of the arm. Doesnt have to be heavy weight even light weight but its about forcing blood into the muscles to pad the joints. I do small arm work based of my other heavy lifts before hand, just to warm up.

I hope this helps
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Agreed! Muscle strength imbalance can cause a host of issues. I'm glad you brought up reverse bb curls as well. I do those with fairly light weight and pause for 1-2 seconds when my arm hits 90 degrees. Really hits the forearm hard without overloading it with intense weight.
 
veaderko said:
I first started with knowing that bi and tri exercise hurt. After figuring that out I started to incorporate them into my routine. Some things I added w/o fat grips are Rev BB Curls.

But I also stretched my forearm after EVER arm exercise. It has taken about a month of stretching, working, supplements, and listening to my elbow. I know it sucks, but after a month of strict and constant work I got it to work.

By balance I mean ALL of the arm. Doesnt have to be heavy weight even light weight but its about forcing blood into the muscles to pad the joints. I do small arm work based of my other heavy lifts before hand, just to warm up.

I hope this helps
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Thanks veaderko,
Yes that is really helpful. So if I am reading it right you might do say dumbell wrist curls with light weight, do dumbell curls with the Fat Grips, stretch and when you get to tricep exercises, say dumbell kickbacks, you would use the Fat Grips for these as well, and stretch after doing the kickbacks. The lightweight reverse grip curls sound like a good idea as well. On a whole other note, I just got a book today which I am hoping will help with the issues I currently have, arm tendonosis and plantar faciitis which flares with exercises such as squats or deadlifts. The book is "Becoming a Supple Leopard" and it was recommended to me as a book that helps you correct dysfunctional movement patterns throughout your body which cause injury. It also teaches you to rehabilitate various injuries on your own. The book is by Kelly Starrett, which I am guessing some of you may have heard about. Not sure if any of you have any experience with this book, or his work. Anyway if it seems helpful I will do my best to share.
 
I had pretty good success with PRP injections. Like you I had tried virtually everything over more than a year. It took 3 sessions over a couple of months and then dedicated forearm exercises for a few more months (which I still do) but now it doesn't bother me too much any more.
Something to consider anyway.
 
PeteRyde said:
I had pretty good success with PRP injections. Like you I had tried virtually everything over more than a year. It took 3 sessions over a couple of months and then dedicated forearm exercises for a few more months (which I still do) but now it doesn't bother me too much any more.
Something to consider anyway.
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I have heard about this and would love to try it. Not sure if my insurance (Kaiser HMO) would cover this or not. Were you able to get this prescribed by your Dr and covered by insurance?
 
glipp said:
I have heard about this and would love to try it. Not sure if my insurance (Kaiser HMO) would cover this or not. Were you able to get this prescribed by your Dr and covered by insurance?
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No, unfortunately my health fund didn't cover it and it wasn't cheap. I also was unlucky that I had to have repeat sessions (and it hurts like hell) but I would do it all again as it worked for me.
 
OP - have you ever had an MRI done? In all chronic cases, I would advise it. Sorry if I skipped over any posts where you mentioned it. You may be able to repair the issue.
 
Gutterpump said:
OP - have you ever had an MRI done? In all chronic cases, I would advise it. Sorry if I skipped over any posts where you mentioned it. You may be able to repair the issue.
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Yeah, actually I have had a couple MRI's done and they have come back negative. It is frustrating because I believe what I have is Tendonosis, which is a degenerative condition of the tendon, probably from overuse, bad form, or both. Guess it just isn't bad enough to show up on an MRI. Frustrating as I am sick of this holding my training back
 
I suffer from the same thing and I am 46 as well. ART (I know you have tried it) done right works. It may take a number of visits to the right person. However, since its your arm, you can perform much of what the ART person would do - a couple of times a day - especially before working out. The tendons are not moving freely due to scar tissue and therefore, continue to pull away from their insertion points and, well, not mechanically work right. By moving along each tendon (on the inside and outside), you can easily feel the places where the tendon has an adhesion. By pressing on these adhesions and stretching the tendon (from its insertion point) and bending the wrist, you can break the adhesions down - and it will feel better and better after each (self) treatment. I say self treatment cause going to an ART guy 3 times a week for a while can get really expensive and he is not there during warm up and during your workout - where you can feel what is going on - and work on these adhesions in real time. I would find a highly recommended ART guy and see him a couple of times - learn what he is doing and do it to the best of your ability yourself. I promise you will feel better. But I don't think I would return to pull ups - maybe close hammer grip ones for a couple of 3/4 reps once a week when your entirely warmed up. Cheers.....
 
Thanks bakerwill,Yeah , I have done ART and it did seem to help some. I can probably look up some videos on how to do it, because as you said it gets expensive. I am also going to try a technique known as "flossing" which is explained in Kelly Starett's book "Becoming a supple leopard" There are some good YouTube video's which illustrate the technique. I have ordered the bands you need to perform the physical therapy on yourself. I am cautiously optimistic about this, so thought I would share if others want to check it out for themselves. Seems to make sense as it is based on the same ideas ie: breaking up adhesions, increasing blood flow and restoring range of motion.
 
glipp said:
Thanks bakerwill,Yeah , I have done ART and it did seem to help some. I can probably look up some videos on how to do it, because as you said it gets expensive. I am also going to try a technique known as "flossing" which is explained in Kelly Starett's book "Becoming a supple leopard" There are some good YouTube video's which illustrate the technique. I have ordered the bands you need to perform the physical therapy on yourself. I am cautiously optimistic about this, so thought I would share if others want to check it out for themselves. Seems to make sense as it is based on the same ideas ie: breaking up adhesions, increasing blood flow and restoring range of motion.
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Flossing - cool! Checked out some video. Looks really promising. I sort of do something like at the gym where I will place the bare skin of my shoulder or whatever else needs the work against a surface where it will grip (like the side of a machine) and then place a ton a pressure against it and then slowly move - and in doing so 'strip' the area. This can be done with or without movement. I like using the gym cause there are a ton of different surfaces - one for everything. It's great between sets. I also use a baseball to find trouble areas - and strip and or apply pressure. I actually use the baseball every workout - and work on the sweet spots in between sets - instead of talking up the hot girls lol...

Let me know how the flossing goes!
 
I have the supple leopard book as well and strongly receommend it to everyone. I also gotta say, massage on the muscles works for me like almost nothing else.
 
rixrix said:
I have the supple leopard book as well and strongly receommend it to everyone. I also gotta say, massage on the muscles works for me like almost nothing else.
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I haven't been able to try a lot of the techniques yet myself, but I would recommend it to people as well. Not just for the techniques but for the comprehensive and detailed way it covers movement and proper form. If you are injured chances are you are moving incorrectly, or lifting incorrectly, and it helps you correct this.
 
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