Help with new well-being stack

[rascal14]

Long story short - ive tried tons and tons of supps and nootropics to help mask my anxiety, depression, OCD, etc. I have had a severe lack of motivation for the past 2 years. About 6 months ago I finally started 300mg Wellbutrin and it definitely helped me from feeling exhausted in the middle of the day, not sure but it may have helped mood a bit as well.

I have been taking Kratom off and on for several years, the past few years daily with no breaks. Work stress continues to pile and my lack of motivation has caused me to start taking 1-4g at work, then another 6-8g at home. My goal is to:

1. Remove Kratom from the equation between hours of 5am-6pm, then eventually taper the evening dose down to 5g or less.
2. Feel better. Going out at night, hanging with friends/family, etc. I realized I am not happy or sociable when sober, so I started drinking more on weekends even if it was just a trip to the mall, I'd have a few drinks throughout to feel more 'in the moment' and sociable. I didn't NEED it, I could go without it easily, but decided, why the heck not? I'm going to the bars with friends later in the night anyway. But I can also go 8 weeks without drinking with no real issue, I just am a bore to be around when I'm with others. Not only does it make me seem rude and like I don't enjoy their company. I do enjoy it, I want to enjoy it MORE, but it's like I just don't have the willpower to say "OK, you're having a good time here, act that way"

I know this is a deeper issue, but my time right now is incredibly low with work and if you read my previous post, upcoming classes.

Anyways my current daily routine
530 AM
2mg Glycopyrrolate
300mg Wellbutrin
(allergy meds)


630AM-530PM
Cup of coffee at 630
Maybe 1-4g of kratom spread out depending on how focused or busy I am (the busier the less time I have to even think of Kratom)
3 Anabolic Effect at lunch
Maybe Propranolol if I have a presentation or meeting to run

545PM
Gym, maybe a pump product

630PM-1130PM
3 Anabolic Effect
6-8g Kratom
1g Agmatine
Black Seed Oil (unsure how much, whatever the dropper is)

What I bought:
SAMe - Doctors Best 200mg
Nootropic Depot Nigella Sativa Extract 200mg - Minimum 10% Thymoquinone
Nootropic Depot PrimaVie Shilajit 250mg


My questions - what times and what dosage to take the SAMe and Shilajit?
Should I take the Black Seed/Nigella Sativa Extract in the AM instead to help curb the appetite for Kratom during the day? What dosage of the 10% is required?


Thanks all!

 

[MikeSumthin]

My personal opinion is to first dump the Kratom... not a fan of the side effects, quick tolerance build up etc.

How's your sleeping?
Maybe invest in some quality natural sleep aids.

 

[Ricky10]

I can certainly relate to basically all of that. I have always turned to alcohol with virtually every family or friends social event. I also feel boring and awkward if I don’t. Such occasions are relatively far and few between so it’s not something that concerns me that much.

I have also had many experiences with extended kratom runs, and I think tapering off that would be a great place to start. You won’t know how well, or potentially not well the Wellbutrin is working for you until that happens. Or where you are at with your emotions/anxiety/motivation/depression at this point in your life in general. While Kratom can certainly be motivating at times and greatly help with easing anxiety and being social, I find it very much promotes the opposite in the long run, and as soon as the fix wears off.

Black seed oil didn’t help me at all to taper Kratom, but that doesn’t mean it won’t help you. Have you ever used SAMe before? I have tried it multiple times, but never get beyond a few months on it. I become lethargic and quite flat with my emotions, and not in the good way.

 

[rascal14]

My personal opinion is to first dump the Kratom... not a fan of the side effects, quick tolerance build up etc.

How's your sleeping?
Maybe invest in some quality natural sleep aids.

Kratom is my sleep aid lol
I've tried damn near every single OTC sleep aid and either got zero results, or made the sleeping much worse. A few other prescriptions as well but wasn't a fan.

I don't mind taking kratom long term, I just need a good taper here

 

[xam2991]

I feel you on the kratom. It’s an amazing sleep aid/relaxant/mood booster. I’m also addicted to it. The best thing to do is taper off slowly. Good luck bro. If you wanna talk more about DM me. I’ve been to treatment before for various things and I’ve love to offer advice if you want it.

 

[rascal14]

I can certainly relate to basically all of that. I have always turned to alcohol with virtually every family or friends social event. I also feel boring and awkward if I don’t. Such occasions are relatively far and few between so it’s not something that concerns me that much.

I have also had many experiences with extended kratom runs, and I think tapering off that would be a great place to start. You won’t know how well, or potentially not well the Wellbutrin is working for you until that happens. Or where you are at with your emotions/anxiety/motivation/depression at this point in your life in general. While Kratom can certainly be motivating at times and greatly help with easing anxiety and being social, I find it very much promotes the opposite in the long run, and as soon as the fix wears off.

Black seed oil didn’t help me at all to taper Kratom, but that doesn’t mean it won’t help you. Have you ever used SAMe before? I have tried it multiple times, but never get beyond a few months on it. I become lethargic and quite flat with my emotions, and not in the good way.

Never used SAMe before.. not sure if I should start with 400mg a day then taper down to 200mg? I've seen people say theres a build up in the beginning.

Also not sure on when and how much Shilajit to take. Overall goal is to use these supplements to help me taper down Kratom.

 

[Beau]

Never used SAMe before.. not sure if I should start with 400mg a day then taper down to 200mg? I've seen people say theres a build up in the beginning.

Also not sure on when and how much Shilajit to take. Overall goal is to use these supplements to help me taper down Kratom.

SAMe gets expensive. Do a little research on Betaine/TMG - it may provide what you are looking for less expensively, and combining SAMe and betaines provides a synergy between the two.

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[sns8778]

Never used SAMe before.. not sure if I should start with 400mg a day then taper down to 200mg? I've seen people say theres a build up in the beginning.

Also not sure on when and how much Shilajit to take. Overall goal is to use these supplements to help me taper down Kratom.

I would start SAMe at 200 mg. twice per day on an empty stomach with the dose spaced out 8 to 12 hours apart.

Shilajit can be taken anytime really; I use M-Test which has it in there and space my dose out twice per day.

 

[sns8778]

A couple things I would consider:

I use SNS Stress & Anxiety Support daily and it really helps take the edge off for me. I take one cap twice daily and then up to 2 additional caps per day as needed.

Also, I would use Agmatine XT at 1 gram twice per day. Agmatine is commonly used in Europe at higher doses to help with opiate withdrawals.

Basically:
Agmatine XT - 1 gram twice per day.
Stress & Anxiety Support - 1 capsule twice per day (up to an extra 2 caps per day if needed)

 

[jarrellt67]

What's been helping me a lot this last week (I've also been taking kratom daily for a long time and trying to cut back) is twice a day taking the following:

1. L-Lysine (1g)
2. Agmatine (1g)
3. Aniracetam (750 mg)

The lysine/agmatine combo is similar to the studied lysine/arginine combo for anxiety (Invalid Link Removed). Agmatine is working better as it improves my energy a lot...which had been lagging as I cut down on my kratom use. It also seems to be helping with the withdrawal effects (as shown in studies). Lysine I mainly started taking to eliminate the cold sores I get whenever taking arginine or agmatine. However, apparently it has stress reducing and mood improving benefits of its own. Aniracetam just helps a lot with reducing anxiety and improving mood a bit. However, I did also find a study on it for reducing opioid tolerance/dependence - Invalid Link Removed. So, that may also be helping me cut back on kratom so much.

edit: to answer one of your questions - I tried the 10% Nigella Sativa Extract from ND (doses ranged from 200-400 mg) and it didn't seem to help at all. In fact, it seemed to make my depression much worse (same as the liquid black seed oil I've tried in the past) and also increased my anxiety a few hours after the calmness wore off (almost like rebound anxiety or something). It didn't help me reduce my kratom usage at all...especially since it was increasing my feelings of depression. I tried dosing it during the daytime and at night, with the same results.

 

[Beau]

Subbed

 

[SSJ4GOD]

@rascal14 can you give us an update?
I am looking into supplements or meds to help get 2023 off to the right start. I have had trouble in the past with “drive” - both with general drive and libido. I have had sleep studies. I’ve taken adderall. I have had countless blood panels taken to check on hormones, inflammation markers, etc … most days I am feeling flat, unmotivated, and just tired. But it’s not crippling. I feel like a functioning alcoholic as I get through most things I just don’t feel that energy or spunk

Have you used wellbutrin (or adderall) while on TRT. I never got the “feel good” on TRT like most guys describe. I added low dose primo to the test injections and while i looked great i didn’t feel great.

Any feedback or info appreciate

For what it’s worth I have taken Wellbutrin and think it’s the only anti depressant that isn’t a poison lol. Didn’t give me energy but did help with some brain fog and helped a bit with weight loss.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

i tried it years ago. I asked the doc if I could try a non stimulating adhd drug and he said sure. I didn’t know much about Wellbutrin at that time. I felt no change at first and then a week in I had what they call a wellbutrin honeymoon and that feeling lasted for about a week or so - it was fantastic. But then that faded and never came back. I felt really happy and energized but calm and focusing on tasks was effortless. I am thinking about giving it another try and I’m curious how adding testosterone to the mix will affect the drugs effect

I’m on trt and was when I was taking Wellbutrin. I never took it without trt. So my experience is based on both together