HELP PLEASE Testicular shrinkage : Long natty t booster cycles, 3gs> daa, stress

u_e_s_i

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Can long cycles of adaptogens (such as ashwagandha, rhodiola), natural t boosters (such as longjack, horny goat weed, tribulus, anacyclus pyrethrum) or daa usage (3gs> per day) cause testicular shrinkage?

First, some background. For the past few months I've been very stressed with work, life, etc whilst typically consuming 30gs> of fat a day and within 500 calories of my BMR, I'm ~7% body fat and consume nicotine.

I had been using OL sup3r PCT as a natty t booster / PCT / systems support with ar1macare (as a liver support, cortisol blocker & estrogen supporessent for three months at 3/4 dosing. During this time, I stacked the above with a natty t booster containing longjack, daa and fenugreek during two of those months and anabeta elite w. OL mass GH during the third.
However, at the start of May, I began a cycle of OL King's Blood (essentially subbing this in in place of sup3r PCT) with ar1macare, a natural T booster containing longjack, daa and fenugreek alongside some additional daa, without realising that OL King's Blood also contains longjack (listed as Eurygold). As a result, I had been taking more than the recommended dosages of longjack and daa.

Recently, I noted that my testes had shrunk and I'm not sure what's caused this.
Since then, I've stopped taking all t boosters and have continued with OL Mass GH (containing ibutamoren and MK-677) to help me retain my gains.
I've also been reading up on the causes of shrinkage, and stress and endogenous hormones are amongst them. In studies on rats, consumption of daa at greater than the equivalent of 3gs a day for humans also causes this.


Can anyone share any knowledge on the side effects that longterm natural t boosters usage can have, or any experience of testicular shrinkage and low libido induced by stress (and therefore elevated cortisol)? Might this be due to the Mass GH (ibutamoren and mk677)?
Lastly, I think that my baseline t production is currently below where it should be and any advice on how to reignite this would also be appreciated.
 

alvin1

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Mass GH as a SARMS in it not just MK 677 this is why!
 
u_e_s_i

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Mass GH as a SARMS in it not just MK 677 this is why!
What's the implication of it being a SARM?
In what I've read, some people say that you can run multiple bottles of Mass GH back to back and there aren't instructions telling users to cycle off it as there are for SARMS lilke LGD
 
john.patterson

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It sounds like you've been cycling different natural test boosting and hormonal products for too long. Most of these products recommend a maximum use of 8 weeks, followed by a 4-6 week break. Jumping from one product to another is not considered a break. Adding the prolonged use of some of these ingredients with extremely low body fat and elevated stress levels is a perfect storm for something to go wrong.

Also, did you read up on LGD-4033 and MK-677 before starting OL Mass GH? These are both SARMs, and LGD-4033 is a suppresive compound. While it isn't labeled as a steroid or PH, it can still cause suppression and shut down:

"Anecdotal evidence shows that human use of LGD-4033 will result in reduction of natural testosterone production. This is because the body thinks the compound is testosterone and therefore produces less. Therefore anyone who undergoes research with LGD should look into PCT Post Cycle Therapy to regenerate natural testosterone production and prevent a hormonal rebound of hormones such as estrogen."

I would do some more research before continuing to use this product, and if you feel that your body is not functioning properly I would stop everything, run your PCT (which hopefully is a SERM), and speak with a doctor ASAP
 
Nac

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What's the implication of it being a SARM?
In what I've read, some people say that you can run multiple bottles of Mass GH back to back and there aren't instructions telling users to cycle off it as there are for SARMS lilke LGD
Base your decisions on the compounds in the product, rather than the name of the product.
 
u_e_s_i

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It sounds like you've been cycling different natural test boosting and hormonal products for too long. Most of these products recommend a maximum use of 8 weeks, followed by a 4-6 week break. Jumping from one product to another is not considered a break. Adding the prolonged use of some of these ingredients with extremely low body fat and elevated stress levels is a perfect storm for something to go wrong.

Also, did you read up on LGD-4033 and MK-677 before starting OL Mass GH? These are both SARMs, and LGD-4033 is a suppresive compound. While it isn't labeled as a steroid or PH, it can still cause suppression and shut down:

"Anecdotal evidence shows that human use of LGD-4033 will result in reduction of natural testosterone production. This is because the body thinks the compound is testosterone and therefore produces less. Therefore anyone who undergoes research with LGD should look into PCT Post Cycle Therapy to regenerate natural testosterone production and prevent a hormonal rebound of hormones such as estrogen."

I would do some more research before continuing to use this product, and if you feel that your body is not functioning properly I would stop everything, run your PCT (which hopefully is a SERM), and speak with a doctor ASAP
Thanks for the advice. I've had a look around and rebirth by black lion research is an option. I have reservations though as it contains e. cotonii like sup3r pct does and I'm concerned that in the long run taking it might prolong my recovery.
What are you thoughts?
 
Angrypolak

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You asked about a lot of compounds in your first post. To my knowledge adaptogens (rhodiola, ash, etc) don't need to be cycled. From what I've read forskolin also does not need to be cycled. Minerals/vitamin like magnesium, zinc, boron D3 do not need to be cycled.

It's commonly recommended to cycle test boosters that often contain the above compounds AND MORE. I honestly don't know if they NEED to be cycled either, but I personally consider the items I specifically called out above safe to be daily staples and use them as such.

And it's already been mentioned but LGD is a SARM and is suppressive. MK677 is not a SARM but is most often listed as one by supplement companies. It has not shown to be suppressive but can cause prolactin to increase (which can indirectly influence hormones). How long have you have you been using Mass GH?
 
john.patterson

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Thanks for the advice. I've had a look around and rebirth by black lion research is an option. I have reservations though as it contains e. cotonii like sup3r pct does and I'm concerned that in the long run taking it might prolong my recovery.
What are you thoughts?
You're welcome. Best of luck on the recovery. and you'll need a real PCT - a SERM. An OTC PCT will not be enough to cover you from an LDG-4033 cycle.
 
u_e_s_i

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You asked about a lot of compounds in your first post. To my knowledge adaptogens (rhodiola, ash, etc) don't need to be cycled. From what I've read forskolin also does not need to be cycled. Minerals/vitamin like magnesium, zinc, boron D3 do not need to be cycled.

It's commonly recommended to cycle test boosters that often contain the above compounds AND MORE. I honestly don't know if they NEED to be cycled either, but I personally consider the items I specifically called out above safe to be daily staples and use them as such.

And it's already been mentioned but LGD is a SARM and is suppressive. MK677 is not a SARM but is most often listed as one by supplement companies. It has not shown to be suppressive but can cause prolactin to increase (which can indirectly influence hormones). How long have you have you been using Mass GH?
About two months, 4mg 2 days a week and 8mg 5 days a week
 

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I think you may have gotten OL Mass GH and OL Ghar1ne confused. Mass GH contains both LGD-4033 (suppressive, probably the cause of the shrinkage) and MK-677 vs Ghar1ne which is their solo MK-677 product which can be run for multiple bottles. As mentioned you will likely need a SERM to recovery at this point.
 
u_e_s_i

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Do you have any advice on which SERM's my best bet?

I've done some reading and nolvadex, clomid look like good options, as does hcg .
 
u_e_s_i

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IMG_3061.jpg
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Ok... so I'm about 8 weeks post cycle now.
The above bloods are from two weeks into my pct, whilst I was on clomid 50ed and nolva 20ed
 
u_e_s_i

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IMG_3136.jpg
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These are from after my pct, two days after I stopped the nolva and OL kingsblood. Also, I'd stopped taking clomid a month ago
 
u_e_s_i

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The atrophy has partially reverted and seminal volume is still suppressed. Can anyone advise me as to how I should proceed?
 
Nac

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To point out the obvious:

Your estrogen is still very high.

Everything else has dropped back (lh, fsh, tt, free t) except estrogen. Its still out of range.
 
rgenestr

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its not all about the sword, its the swordsman
 
u_e_s_i

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To point out the obvious:

Your estrogen is still very high.

Everything else has dropped back (lh, fsh, tt, free t) except estrogen. Its still out of range.
Will everything that's currently abnormal reset once my estrogen has?
 
Nac

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Will everything that's currently abnormal reset once my estrogen has?
I dont know sorry. If this was me Id do a short stint with an AI like aromasin (a pharma AI, I wouldnt bother with an OTC), try and get e2 under control and lower SHBG a little. But this is going purely by numbers.
 
u_e_s_i

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HELP PLEASE Testicular shrinkage : Long natty t booster cycles, 3gs> daa, stress

Thanks for the help everyone It's been a while since my last post but I wanted to track how my recovery went.
Now, 6 months on, I'm feeling a lot better and my bloods suggest that I've fully recovered (I think). The boys are back in business (thank god) and I'm now stronger than I was before I got injured last January, including having made darn good progress on shoulders and thighs having only started in September (I know, rookie error, only got a coach last September)(leg presses have gone from 80kg for 12 to 280kg for 12). I'd spent 6 months unable to lift properly due to injury, which overlapped with my PCT, and lost a fair bit of muscle. I had a blood test done a month ago (first one below) and had one done earlier this week (lower one). I've been taking ZMA and some aminos before bed, and the second blood test was done the morning after a night when I'd had a meal of protein and veggies right before bed which would've lowered my hgh secretion somewhat.
 
u_e_s_i

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HELP PLEASE Testicular shrinkage : Long natty t booster cycles, 3gs> daa, stress

Abc
 
u_e_s_i

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So I'm curious, anyone know how big of an impact ZMA and/or other things have on testosterone levels?
 
HIT4ME

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So I'm curious, anyone know how big of an impact ZMA and/or other things have on testosterone levels?
I honestly don't think it will have a huge impact unless you are deficient...but a lot of people actually are deficient. I take it before bed and I feel it aids in sleep tremendously. It isn't a sleep aid that knocks you out, but I wake up fewer times during the night while on it. Better sleep itself will have an impact on hormones potentially.

Good job with the recovery and glad things have turned aeound.
 

sp2000

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Hello,

Have you recovered your testicular shrinkage? I am interested in knowing how you resolved this.
Also did you find the reason for the shrinkage? To me it is fenugreek .
 

ironkill

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He
Hello,

Have you recovered your testicular shrinkage? I am interested in knowing how you resolved this.
Also did you find the reason for the shrinkage? To me it is fenugreek .
he did, see post #23. It was def the LGD not fenugreek
 
barische

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Hello,

Have you recovered your testicular shrinkage? I am interested in knowing how you resolved this.
Also did you find the reason for the shrinkage? To me it is fenugreek .
holy bump bruh, obv it was the lgd.. stop messing with sarms when you are still in high school!!!
 

Irishobrien

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Hello,

Have you recovered your testicular shrinkage? I am interested in knowing how you resolved this.
Also did you find the reason for the shrinkage? To me it is fenugreek .
fenugreek does the complete opposite for me
 
u_e_s_i

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Hello,

Have you recovered your testicular shrinkage? I am interested in knowing how you resolved this.
Also did you find the reason for the shrinkage? To me it is fenugreek .
yeah things are back to normal now and it was the LGD, altho the other factors probably didn’t help

The company that sold me the LGD advertises it saying it doesn’t have any major side-effects but of course that turned out to be bs.
Look through the ingredients of the supps you’re taking and quickly google everything you’re not absolutely certain isn’t causing the atrophy because the same thing might’ve happened to you. If you’re unsure about how safe particular ingredients are just post them here and I’ll have a look

good luck with everything 👊🏼
 

sp2000

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thanks Guys, happy to hear everything is back to business.
what do you guys think about anacyclus pyrethrum? Does anybody knows about it or have any experience about it?
thanks.
 
u_e_s_i

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thanks Guys, happy to hear everything is back to business.
what do you guys think about anacyclus pyrethrum? Does anybody knows about it or have any experience about it?
thanks.
It’s in this supplement called Anabeta elite which I took for a while that used to be really popular


Anacyclus is actually known to increase testicular weight and i don’t think ive ever heard any1 say that their balls might've shrunk because of it so it’s unlikely that that’s causing it. If you want to do some research tho you could browse the old posts about anabeta

how are you taking the anacyclus, is it in a supplement? If so what’s it called?

also do you take any other T boosters? If so, how long have you been takin them for and have you taken any breaks from them during that time? T boosters should be cycled 6 weeks on, 4 weeks off or else there could be problems

and do you take D-aspartic acid?
 

sp2000

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I wanted to use its roots as I have read some positive research about it. I used Saw palmetto almost 10 years ago and still suffering from its sides. Before using SP I was as strong as any male can be, no issues at all, erections were present 24 hours. But within 6-8 weeks I got numb and then shrinkage set in. Since then my testes are shrunken and my T is lower than normal.
 

ananas

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yeah things are back to normal now and it was the LGD, altho the other factors probably didn’t help

The company that sold me the LGD advertises it saying it doesn’t have any major side-effects but of course that turned out to be bs.
Look through the ingredients of the supps you’re taking and quickly google everything you’re not absolutely certain isn’t causing the atrophy because the same thing might’ve happened to you. If you’re unsure about how safe particular ingredients are just post them here and I’ll have a look

good luck with everything 👊🏼
you aren't natty
 

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