Help on first Epistane cycle design

[chrys]

Hello all,

New year and time to set new targets on improving physique!

I have been lifting for more than 5 years, improved a lot my strength and appearance but never made the big break through. I would rather say, steady and slow pace of improvement. The last two years, I have put a lot of effort in improving my diet as well, cleaning it up and try to measure portions, calories and macros. As I said, nice improvements but coming out very slow. So after a lot of reading in the forum I started thinking to use a PH to assist my effort in getting a better and more solid physique. So far my supplementation included only proteins, creatine and the last two months used Epic from OL. I have read a lot about Epistane about being the perfect PH for a newbie and for someone who wants to reduce BF.

Target:
Recomp, I want to reduce stubborn fat especially around waist and get some muscle mass. So I will start with slightly above maintenance calories, around 2000 kcal and try to do some carb cycling. I will adjust the diet based on how my body reacts.

Stats:
Age: 35
Weight: 75 kg
Height: 179 cm
BF: 13.5%
Weight lifting experience: 5+ years

Latest Bloodwork:
Test total: 6.9 ng/mL
Testo free: 17 pg/mL
E2 : 27 pg/mL

Cycle proposal:
- OL Epi: 30/30/30/45/45/45
- Dermacrine: 0/0/4/4/4/4
- OL Arimacare Pro (as on label)
- Additional liver support needed?
- Taurine: 5mg, should I use it day one of the cycle?
- Joint support needed? I read that epistane is very dry to the joints.

PCT:
- Nolva: 20/20/10/10
- OL Super PCT: 4/4/3/3/2/1
- Alpha Max Performax Lab (as on label for six weeks)

I have read a lot about the risk of gyno rebound effect. So I have on hand Aromasin.

A few questions, concerns:

1. Lethargy. Is there something else needed other than dermacrine? Should it be used during PCT as well?
2. Gyno. Is there a risk for gyno during the cycle? Or is it only during PCT or even after PCT? I read about Aromasin being a strong AI, should I add it at the end of the PCT, after nolva?
3. Libido. Any other supplementation needed in pct/on cycle?
4. Diet. Is it on spot? Should I add more calories to get better benefits from the cycle?

I would very much appreciate your help. Please let me know what you think of the above cycle and if I have missed something?

Thanks!

 

[AustBenny]

Hey mate,

Your cycle looks laid out nicely.

(1) I think you will be okay with the dermacrine if this is your first ever cycle. I would run it from the first week at four pumps a day.

(2) There's very little chance of gyno during an epistane cycle, epistane has light AI properties and is very dry. I would use aromasin in your PCT at 12.5mg eod from week 3 and run two weeks past your SERM.

Nolva: 20/20/10/10/0/0
Aromasin: 0/0/12.5/12.5/12/.5/12.5 - those are every other day.

(3) I think your libido should be okay. It may suffer a little on cycle but not much you can do about it without running a heaveir test base. The dermacrine should have you covered. I think in PCT you should bounce back okay. I think the OL Super PCT + Alphamax is gonna be a little too much. You're better using the Alphamax after your PCT as part of a natty stack. The Super PCT pretty much has you covered (lots of the same ingredients).

(4) I think you can definitely afford to eat more if you want to put on a bit of size.

It needs to be said, I think there's room for you to move a little more naturally. I managed to get to 85kg at 176cm at your age man, just eating big and lifting big. Body fat was about the same. But anyways, just saying.

 

[NattyBoy]

Cycle looks good, it's great that you did as much research as you did. Sup3r Pct is a great otc pct, but I would look for the newer one that has more ingredients, it is a bigger bottle with 300 capsules. Dosage wise, 45mg is pretty high tbh since this is your first, but I would still give it a try and if you respond well to it, keep at it. Joints do get pretty bad if your sub-10% bodyfat, fish oil is my best friend at these times. Back pumps and cramps got bad for me around week 3.

 

[chrys]

Hello guys,

Thank you very much for your feedback! Very much appreciated!!

I know about the natty option, but somehow I feel that I have hit a plateau. I would like to try something that will boost my body and motivate me further to build a nice physique. Reducing the fat around the belly and adding muscle mass are the major targets I want to hit. I hope I do not mess up my hormones and body, so I am trying to design the cycle as much careful as possible.
When I actually do run the cycle, your support and comments will be the best guide for me.

So I have the following updates:

1. I drop Alpha Max from the PCT
2. Use Aromasin every other day, for 4 weeks after the second week of PCT (0/0/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5). I have caps of 25 mg, so I must figure out how to split them given they are very small in size
3. Maybe stick with 30mg epistane, here I can see how it goes and if I can handle more then I try the 45 mg option.
4. Add fish oils, I have them already in my diet, sorry for not mentioning tha! I take 1 gram every night. I also have caps of glucosamine and chondroitin that I can use. Any recommendations on dosage?

Few more questions:

1. I checked many of the European sites (and an American one) that are official retailers of OL and they are out of stock of both Arimacare Pro and Super PCT. They told me that it will take time till they get new ones. Any alternatives to the above two?
2. Should I complement BPS Dermacrine with anything more to get a stronger test base?
3. @NattyBoy Is there a new OL Super PCT that is coming out?

Thanks again!!

 

[NattyBoy]

Hello guys,

Thank you very much for your feedback! Very much appreciated!!

I know about the natty option, but somehow I feel that I have hit a plateau. I would like to try something that will boost my body and motivate me further to build a nice physique. Reducing the fat around the belly and adding muscle mass are the major targets I want to hit. I hope I do not mess up my hormones and body, so I am trying to design the cycle as much careful as possible.
When I actually do run the cycle, your support and comments will be the best guide for me.

So I have the following updates:

1. I drop Alpha Max from the PCT
2. Use Aromasin every other day, for 4 weeks after the second week of PCT (0/0/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5). I have caps of 25 mg, so I must figure out how to split them given they are very small in size
3. Maybe stick with 30mg epistane, here I can see how it goes and if I can handle more then I try the 45 mg option.
4. Add fish oils, I have them already in my diet, sorry for not mentioning tha! I take 1 gram every night. I also have caps of glucosamine and chondroitin that I can use. Any recommendations on dosage?

Few more questions:

1. I checked many of the European sites (and an American one) that are official retailers of OL and they are out of stock of both Arimacare Pro and Super PCT. They told me that it will take time till they get new ones. Any alternatives to the above two?
2. Should I complement BPS Dermacrine with anything more to get a stronger test base?
3. @NattyBoy Is there a new OL Super PCT that is coming out?

Thanks again!!

Dermacrine should be enough, check pms, i can help you with the super pct

 

[Demgainz]

Hello guys,

Thank you very much for your feedback! Very much appreciated!!

I know about the natty option, but somehow I feel that I have hit a plateau. I would like to try something that will boost my body and motivate me further to build a nice physique. Reducing the fat around the belly and adding muscle mass are the major targets I want to hit. I hope I do not mess up my hormones and body, so I am trying to design the cycle as much careful as possible.
When I actually do run the cycle, your support and comments will be the best guide for me.

So I have the following updates:

1. I drop Alpha Max from the PCT
2. Use Aromasin every other day, for 4 weeks after the second week of PCT (0/0/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5). I have caps of 25 mg, so I must figure out how to split them given they are very small in size
3. Maybe stick with 30mg epistane, here I can see how it goes and if I can handle more then I try the 45 mg option.
4. Add fish oils, I have them already in my diet, sorry for not mentioning tha! I take 1 gram every night. I also have caps of glucosamine and chondroitin that I can use. Any recommendations on dosage?

Few more questions:

1. I checked many of the European sites (and an American one) that are official retailers of OL and they are out of stock of both Arimacare Pro and Super PCT. They told me that it will take time till they get new ones. Any alternatives to the above two?
2. Should I complement BPS Dermacrine with anything more to get a stronger test base?
3. @NattyBoy Is there a new OL Super PCT that is coming out?

Thanks again!!

You have been given pretty solid advice in this thread. If it is your very first cycle there is no need to go above 30. If you want to and you feel you must, then go ahead but be prepared for possibly the same gains with more sides.

1 gram of fish oil doesn't even seem enough when I am off of any other hormones. Even with my diet containing salmon, tuna, avocados, walnuts, ect I still keep my fish oil intake above 2 grams a day. That is purely preference and how your body responds to it.

If you can not find arimacare pro or they do not have it in stock you could wait for it to come back in if you are not in a rush because it does seem like a good cycle support supp. Or you can simply add in another support supp such as anabolic innovations cycle assist, plus buy and add in some tudca. That is of course if you want to try and match the ingredient profile somewhat in the arimacare.

There is no need to compliment the dermacrine as a test base in an epi cycle and it being you first. I have never used a test base and have been fine. Others can't cycle without one.

Your layout looks good.

 

[chrys]

Thanks bro!!

I keep epistane at 30 grams then. I have read many posts that people mention 40 grams as the sweet spot, but OL has only tablets of 15 grams, so that is why I had the 45 grams dosage. BUT as you said I keep it 30 grams and see how it goes!

Lethargy is something that concerns me, I have a very demanding office job so getting low energy and sleep mode is not an option

I have also sent a message to OL regarding the availability of Super PCT and Arimacare Pro. Any representative of OL that can shed some light??

 

[Demgainz]

yates84

 

[chrys]

I just got their reply that everyone will be out of stock till the end of the month! Are they preparing anything new?

 

[AustBenny]

Hey man,

Looks like you have everything pretty sorted now.

45 would be the sweet spot. Don't go there until at least week 3, see how you feel.

With fish oil more is better. I personally take my orals with 4 or 5 caps of fish oil then take a meal about 20-30mins later. This way you get good absorption and also get good fish oil intake.

I like OL product but I personally would not take Arimicare as my cycle support due to the arimistane...that combined with the epi will dry your joints too much. LGI Damage Control is what I use but CEL make a good product too but it has no TUDCA.

Have fun

 

[chrys]

Thanks for the recommendations bro!!

I keep it to 30 till week 3 and then see how it goes! Do you split the orals during the day? Or do you take them at once, eg breakfast or before main meal?

CEL cycle support and adding OL or CEL tudca could be another alternative then! Bit pricey though
CEL cycle support seems to have same ingredients (except tudca) as LGI Damage Control but with higher concentrations.

 

[yates84]

I just got their reply that everyone will be out of stock till the end of the month! Are they preparing anything new?

Yep, gonna be the 20th before it's in stock again.

 

[AustBenny]

Thanks for the recommendations bro!!

I keep it to 30 till week 3 and then see how it goes! Do you split the orals during the day? Or do you take them at once, eg breakfast or before main meal?

CEL cycle support and adding OL or CEL tudca could be another alternative then! Bit pricey though
CEL cycle support seems to have same ingredients (except tudca) as LGI Damage Control but with higher concentrations.

CEL cycle support is very good value. Double the number of doses of the LGI. I just have an easier time getting the LGI here in Australia and plus i like the TUDCA.

Epi has I think 6-8 hour half life so split your doses. 30mg do 15 in the AM and 15 in the PM. If/when you get to 45 split to three doses, breakfast, lunch, dinner or whatever. It's good to try and time a dose prior to your workout so with your preworkout meal is good

 

[chrys]

Thanks for all the support guys!!

Some orders have been placed already. I miss only the OL super PCT. But I guess I start the cycle and order it when it becomes available.

Probably I will open a new thread to log my cycle...so stay tuned!!

 

[chrys]

Guys a very quick question on OL super pct. In the pct protocol, I have written 4 capsules but looking in the serving size in the box it's written 10 capsules! Should I stick to 4 or 10?

 

[Bigdumogre]

Guys a very quick question on OL super pct. In the pct protocol, I have written 4 capsules but looking in the serving size in the box it's written 10 capsules! Should I stick to 4 or 10?

5 am and 5 pm

 

[chrys]

Thanks! It seems they have changed the dose in the new super pct. Should I keep it like that all the four weeks?