BBiceps
Well-known member
Lol, that's impressive!
Help me get on a stim-break, please!
- Thread starter Ray Donovan
- Start date
Lol, that's impressive!
Ricky10
Well-known member
Yup, the two biggest factors that affect my ability to feel my stims are getting adequate sleep, and staying away from alcohol, which in turn affects my sleep
Industrial
Member
i need a stim break too. i wake up in the morning and can hardly get out of bed until i pop my 2 pills of hydroxyelite.
John Smeton
Legend
Jesus Id be scared to take that much. Good point you worked your way up which means you can work your way down. I take in 125-200 mgs caffiene most days. Like a month ago I was up to 300 or maybe even 500 or 600 on some days.
I know I ve said it quite a bit I feel tyrosine and taurine is a nice counterbalance for coming off. Taurine has a somewhat calming effect like the yin balancing out the yang. and tyrosine gets some alertness, in science terms dopamine. I take l-dopa twice a week for other reasons, from previous experience and from what I know I wouldnt recommend l-dopa for too long
Ive got to have my sleep. Ive been trying melatonin for this,at first i was doing 3 mgs and now small dosing and going no greater than a 1 mg.
Industrial
Member
It sucks to hear about the stim addictions, but it makes me feel better that I'm not alone! I dread coming off or trying to come off of my hydroxyelite and coffee/monster drinks.
BennyMagoo79
Well-known member
take 4 days off work and gym, go cold turkey and take something like Cort Rx for a week or 2.
AntM1564
Legend
Four days off work for a stim break? I don't think it is feasible for one to miss work for that reason.
bigdavid
Well-known member
And unnecessary if you only care about the wakefulness properties. That effect, mediated by antagonism at adenosine receptors, never goes away. The effects that do go away with time are the changes in norepinephrine and dopamine increases, since your body gets used to those changes with chronic use. And you will feel drops in those levels if you were to stop cold turkey, which sucks since you no longer get the boost, but get all the negatives if you stop. But regardless, caffeine use has been shown to be healthy chronically even in doses up to 6-800 per day. That obviously assumes you don’t get palpitations and you worked up to that dose.
Euclides
Board Sponsor
BBiceps
Well-known member
Interested in this one since I'm attempting to do a stim break soon as well.
bosskardo
Well-known member
Also, I seem to remember theacrine somewhat reducing caffeine tolerance.
Not wrong, am I?
bigdavid
Well-known member
PM sent. Thanks! Just a heads up, since I live in Florida I may receive the shipment a week or so later than you might otherwise expect since Irma just came through. That being said I am in more Northern Florida, luckily got power back after a day, minimal damage in my area, and am ready to log whenever it gets here. I’m also currently in a pair a rather difficult graduate courses so the timing is perfect. I can comment on all aspects cognitively.
Euclides
Board Sponsor
Send me a PM. I got you brother.
Euclides
Board Sponsor
TeaCrine's main use is as a stimulant that doesn't give you a crash or any withdrawals common with caffeine intake. However, the other ingredients in AZOTH - Phosphatidylserine and Ashwagandha can help reset your adrenals from stimulant fatigue. Many people use both ingredients to combat adrenal fatigue with great success.
To quote a popular source:
" The main difference between theacrine and caffeine is the addition of a ketone to the imidazole ring, and the addition of a methyl group off the open nitrogen. These additions alter theacrine's ability to bind to enzymes in the body like caffeine does. This means that theacrine does not metabolize in the same manner as caffeine, and does not lead to secondary metabolites that can then go on to cause adverse side effects in the body. Due to these changes, theacrine is longer-acting, has less side effects, and does not build tolerance like caffeine"
To quote a popular source:
" The main difference between theacrine and caffeine is the addition of a ketone to the imidazole ring, and the addition of a methyl group off the open nitrogen. These additions alter theacrine's ability to bind to enzymes in the body like caffeine does. This means that theacrine does not metabolize in the same manner as caffeine, and does not lead to secondary metabolites that can then go on to cause adverse side effects in the body. Due to these changes, theacrine is longer-acting, has less side effects, and does not build tolerance like caffeine"
Euclides
Board Sponsor
Stay safe brother! Packet sent.
Ray Donovan
Member
I don't miss work unless I'm in jail or dead.
I do know that stopping high doses of Adderall would want to make me miss 4-5 days of work.
Ray Donovan
Member
Great discussion guys. I've decided to simply reduce my stim intake. Already down to 2 scoops of Mesomorph on lifting days and I'm FINE.
However I'm still on EC and doing yohimbine for fasted morning cardio. (No Mesomorph on cardio days, 3 days a week)
However I'm still on EC and doing yohimbine for fasted morning cardio. (No Mesomorph on cardio days, 3 days a week)
Ray Donovan
Member
It gets better, I forgot to say that I'm on 300mg Wellbutrin. That must be factored in yea?
bigdavid
Well-known member
Unless you started it recently it’s inconsequential. Just consider it baseline and disregard. The exception is if there are any cytochrome p450 enzyme interactions and if I remember correctly there aren’t many with bupropion.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Interestingly, people that take Theacrine as a standalone product say that they really don't feel anything at all. It seems to need supporting ingredients to make it shine. AZOTH looks like a nice product!
BennyMagoo79
Well-known member
Im better off not being at work when I do a stim reset. Usually I take advantage of a holiday or long weekend though.
Ricky10
Well-known member
I can relate to that. If I were to ever take a stim-break that certainly would make it much easier!
If I happen to have a b1tch of a cold for a week or so, I tend to cut my stims or have none because I feel like @ss either way, so it's not even worth it. They are more or less forced stim breaks. Since I started taking Evomuse Gut Health about a year ago...I have not gotten sick at all though..
bell1986
Well-known member
I was on the same boat as you.. First thing is to get rid of any supplements out the house that are stim based. If they are thier you will scoop or pop them! Thats what i kept doing. Next is too keep coffee intake reasonable for a good few days. Then cut out the odd coffee here and thier and maybe implement a caffeine free one. But.. If you go cold turkey for caffeine you will suffer terrible withdrawals. So be slow about it. Supplement i recommend to fill the blanks are. Ashwagandha ' 5-htp & L-Tyrosine. Just so you get an *extra* kick each day and might help take your mind off the stims. I know your filling one thing with another but your adrenals will thank you.
Im still a coffee drinker (Morning only) 1 coffee and i then use green tea about 3 cups a day. Little less caffeine but i love all these. (I did go off caffeine completely though for a proper break) See once i dropped the stims i felt like myself again. Anxiety was dissapearing. Workouts improved also as i was at the stage where stims done the opposite to me. I have got recent bloodwork and my full body is running perfectly so it is worth it. I have 2 tubs of pre workout sitting downstair and i wouldnt even touch them now.
Im still a coffee drinker (Morning only) 1 coffee and i then use green tea about 3 cups a day. Little less caffeine but i love all these. (I did go off caffeine completely though for a proper break) See once i dropped the stims i felt like myself again. Anxiety was dissapearing. Workouts improved also as i was at the stage where stims done the opposite to me. I have got recent bloodwork and my full body is running perfectly so it is worth it. I have 2 tubs of pre workout sitting downstair and i wouldnt even touch them now.
Jm88888
Well-known member
I completely stop all caffeine. Do it on Saturday or better the first day to a 3 day weekend. And just suffer thru the withdrawal symptoms. You will notice you have more energy when off the caffeine, and after a couple months you can bring back the caffeine for a cut cycle. The key is to USE caffeine like you would any other supplement. Cycle it’s use for maximum results and minimize sides.....
AntM1564
Legend
This. I cut it out for a week every 6th or 7th week. The other weeks, I only use caffeine 3 times per week and vary the amount each week. This keeps me very fresh and 100 mg hits me pretty well.
u_e_s_i
Well-known member
Are your workouts predictably weaker on lower caffeine days? I've thought about cycling but I haven't been sure about whether I'd still progress if I'm not breaking PRs
Slims
Well-known member
Been there, done this. I've taken nearly a full year off pre-workouts and really cut down on my caffeine once I realised I'd become a stim addict/caffeine dependant. It's too easy to become reliant on stims considering how much some companies are packing into their products these days.
Good note on the Taurine recommendation though. I'd also add in some SNS Reduce XT, KSM-66 and some extra Magnesium to help with the stim withdrawal.
For the first few weeks, yes. But once your body adapts to the stim free diet it'll start working better and you'll perform better naturally. A healthy and clean running body is a strong body.
AntM1564
Legend
I will use stims when going for a new PR. But on heavy days from a week where I use caffeine versus don't, not much if a difference strength wise. The one thing I do notice is I am just a little slower in the gym, moving between exercises, rest between sets, etc.
I did something similar last summer. I teach and during summer break, I did not use any type of caffeine or stimulant. This helped greatly. Now, I cycle, just like you. I do not need prolonged breaks any more, but I will take a longer break during vacations. For example, the past few weeks, even though I was scheduled to use stims, I did not since we are on winter break.
ProAnabolics4
New member
I go cold turkey on stims for a week here and there, maybe quarterly throughout the year. Helps to use those weeks as rest weeks, or wait until you get a cold or sick and just go cold turkey then since u already can't lift well and feel bad.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Anyone else ever take large doses of Vitamin D3? I am NOT recommending this to anyone, but I was taking 20,000 IU of vitamin D per day for a little over a month and I've noticed increased sensitivity to caffeine, which is something for me - I have always been super-tolerant of it, my entire life. I'm talking I could take a gram and not notice anything. I could drop a gram and go to sleep 20-30 minutes later.
Ray Donovan
Member
I stopped caffeine! I got sick 2 weeks ago and took the week off work so I might as well start the stim break.
Took about 10 days to stabilize.
My plan is to take off at least 2-3 months and then if I feel like it, use occasionally. What a relief. I look forward to observing the change in my mind, I’ve read caffeine lowers emotional IQ for example.
Any suggestions on shops to help with fat burning/energy? I was thinking green tea and ALCAR. Also, would it be cheating if I used Modinafil?
Took about 10 days to stabilize.
My plan is to take off at least 2-3 months and then if I feel like it, use occasionally. What a relief. I look forward to observing the change in my mind, I’ve read caffeine lowers emotional IQ for example.
Any suggestions on shops to help with fat burning/energy? I was thinking green tea and ALCAR. Also, would it be cheating if I used Modinafil?
Dukethumper
Member
For a stim free pre Volugen by Morphogen is the best I have ever used and it makes me sad the company isnt on the forums
irishiron300
Member
This just happened to me...I’ve been telling myself to break from stims for months now. With early am workouts + a baby in July + 13-14 hr days...I haven’t until now. Feeling good tho.
Carnitine is good to throw in the mix for burning. If you want to kick it up a notch take a carnitine pre that’s mixed with grains of paradise like fireball or betancourt’s carnitine and prepare to sweat.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Hearing all these reports of people feeling so much better being stim free is quite inspiring. I have chronically been on moderate to heavy stims for about 10 years...no joke. Honestly though, I used to have low energy and poor mood before I started my chronic stims. I also have a longer standing depression history that obviously plays a factor. I truly believe that I feel better on a day to day basis since being on my stimulants. I have also done shift work for the past 7 years which makes me all that much more stim dependent. The good news is that I can still feel my stims, and sometimes I come across certain products that are just too hard hitting for me. This tells me that my tolerance is still "relatively" in check. I don't think this is the healthiest way of life for myself, but it has just become my reality..
gav86
Member
Not sure if it's been said but the best part of a caffeine dependency, is it's very short lived. You can use something like phenylpiracetam (more stimulating than caffeine) for the short time while not on caffeine. You do become desensitised relatively quick. Possibly this was the nootropic bigdavid was referring to also. It's easily the best stim nootropic
Slims
Well-known member
10 years and you can still feel the effects? Do you cycle your type or dosages of stims?
Ricky10
Well-known member
I do. I have quite a variety at all times with various ranges of caffeine content. That way I can just take what I need at a given time, and the variety of ingredients keeps my receptors guessing a bit. My “go to” for the past year or more has been Oxymax XT. Sadly, I am personally not so thrilled with the new version. More of a short lived and harsher caffeine high followed by a crash. The former version had a smoother sustained feel good energy for me. That is another topic though and I am sure there are some people that enjoy the change. Others in my current rotation are Pyroxamine, OG Norcodrene, Schizo Psycho (rarely), and some nootropic blends. Then I have some powdered stims like the current Alphamine and BloodShred WAR..
AntM1564
Legend
Have you tried NootropiMax? Does the formula interest you?
InItForGainz
Well-known member
There are other options if you're worried about loosing strength whilst on a stim-break. You could try a stim-free pre-workout or go with an all round natty ergogenic like OL's Tr1umph or PES' Ergonine, both of which contain strength enhancing ingredients that you can take everyday and that only improve the longer you take them.
AntM1564
Legend
Add IntraMax to that list as well!
u_e_s_i
Well-known member
I've stacked tr1umph with conqu3r stim-free but am looking for something to augment that with
InItForGainz
Well-known member
We don't have IntraMax here yet so I can't vouch for that...Although if you wanna send over some samples
Surely that's a strong enough stack to continue with whilst on a stim break?
Slims
Well-known member
So do you always include some sort of caffeine or do you use the stims or noot blends for caffeine breaks (if any)?
Ricky10
Well-known member
Oh...no caffeine breaks for me...haha! I have found that I crave or require less stims when I take Vicaine and/or Kratom. Though Vicaine surely has stimulant properties of its own though..
Dukethumper
Member
Stacking Intramax with Volugen is amazing and the pumps are ridiculous
Kiri
New member
Try in the morning on empty stomach EAA 5/10 gr fasted. I felt "light amped" I just felt normal guy, so after I combined it with little dose caffeine and I after I found Off the chain which is all in one and I feel more from that compared to any other pre and it lasts long time long time without crash and I tried every **** on the market to get of stims/reduce tolerance of to feel something and that's a damn good quality product and surprisingly it resolved my problems and instantly like 10 min after ingestion but maybe that's just works for me so I don't know if it will work for you, I don't know your budget but it's not very expensive at all and it was magic for me so if you can give it a run ! And it feel like a good quality DMAA product it's hard to explain but with 1 scoop 45-50 minutes mark on emptY stomach you can feel DMAA kickin if you tried good original feeling and I felt it even with a high tolerance.
Hope that will work for you too!!
Hope that will work for you too!!
Ricky10
Well-known member
Yes, I have tried Nootropimax....I was one of the loggers
Overall, I truly enjoy it. The only problem I had with it was the bacopa which is not one of my favorite ingredients when dosed on the high end. Just a little bit of bacopa is fine for me...I am just picky though
bell1986
Well-known member
Kratom helps me also. Its been a god send during my cut also.. Doesn't suppress my appetite like some supp's i have took but makes me feel like i can push my fasting period alot longer due to the mood boost. Another perk is its non stim so no jittery wired out feeling like what DMAA or too much caffeine does to me and raises my anxiety so much.Oh...no caffeine breaks for me...haha! I have found that I crave or require less stims when I take Vicaine and/or Kratom. Though Vicaine surely has stimulant properties of its own though..