Hcg

guoshuang

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whats the role hcg play ( introduce at the end of a cycle) in a pct? Help the testes to get back to normal size or prevent muscle loss, help the returning of natural testosterone level during serms pct?
 
KvanH

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HCG mimics LH in the testes and signals the balls to produce test. HCG is suppressive to LH, so not to be used during serm PCT, or at least it will work against the attemp of raising LH with the serm. It's usually used for a few weeks before the start of PCT to wake the balls up from getting desensitized to LH due to absence of LH during cycle. Or used at lower dose throughout the cycle to keep the balls from desensitizing to LH and atrophying from being inactive.
 
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Moto140

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I saw a study that said 500 IU of HCG every other day kept the testes from atrophyting while on TRT. So, Id assume it would do the same on cycle.

Keeps your balls working and producing test the whole time. So, you could probably drop your test dose by 100mg and get the same levels, if you run a decent HCG protocol.
 
Kronic

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HCG mimics LH in the testes and signals the balls to produce test. HCG is suppressive to LH, so not to be used during serm PCT, or at least it will work against the attemp of raising LH with the serm. It's usually used for a few weeks before the start of PCT to wake the balls up from getting desensitized to LH due to absence of LH during cycle. Or used at lower dose throughout the cycle to keep the balls from desinsitizing to LH and atrophying from being inactive.
while what you say makes sense, there are many studies using both HCG and serm at the same time to treat hypogonadal and it performs better in those studies at least. I think people should probably stop using HCG and only use HMG. I think if you are getting pharma you have to use HCG + some other FSH drug because they don't seem to use HMG for some reason.

HCG == LSH
HMG == LSH + FSH
 

Moto140

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while what you say makes sense, there are many studies using both HCG and serm at the same time to treat hypogonadal and it performs better in those studies at least. I think people should probably stop using HCG and only use HMG. I think if you are getting pharma you have to use HCG + some other FSH drug because they don't seem to use HMG for some reason.

HCG == LSH
HMG == LSH + FSH
I was under the impression that there was some grey area with HMG. Depending on how its derived, there could be LH+FSH mimetics, or just the FSH mimmetic. Is it for sure always LH and FSH? I honestly don't know.
 
KvanH

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while what you say makes sense, there are many studies using both HCG and serm at the same time to treat hypogonadal and it performs better in those studies at least. I think people should probably stop using HCG and only use HMG. I think if you are getting pharma you have to use HCG + some other FSH drug because they don't seem to use HMG for some reason.

HCG == LSH
HMG == LSH + FSH
Ok, interesting. I know sometimes serm can 'over power' some suppressive compounds like sarms for example, depending on dosing and individual response. That's why I added that at least hcg will work against the attemp of rising LH, if not fully prevent it. The restart and trt protocols I've seen only use hcg for a period of time in the beginning. Do you know what the benefit of taking hcg is, while on serm hrt?
 

Moto140

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Ok, interesting. I know sometimes serm can 'over power' some suppressive compounds like sarms for example, depending on dosing and individual response. That's why I added that at least hcg will work against the attemp of rising LH, if not fully prevent it. The restart and trt protocols I've seen only use hcg for a period of time in the beginning. Do you know what the benefit of taking hcg is, while on serm hrt?
HCG will get your leydig cells to start operating more quickly, since it will take a while for the SERM to bring LH back from the dead.

With HCG, you're recovering from testicular atrophy and regaining the function of the testes themselves.

The simultaneous SERM administration prevents the estrogen from binding to the hypothalamous's estrogen receptors, and allowing that to happen would mean a doen-regulation in natural LH secretion.

The idea is to regain testicular function while bringing back natural LH secretion. If you block hypothalamous estrogen receptors, you are going to eventually see LH go up even if you have high serum estrogen levels.
 
KvanH

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HCG will get your leydig cells to start operating more quickly, since it will take a while for the SERM to bring LH back from the dead.

With HCG, you're recovering from testicular atrophy and regaining the function of the testes themselves.

The simultaneous SERM administration prevents the estrogen from binding to the hypothalamous's estrogen receptors, and allowing that to happen would mean a doen-regulation in natural LH secretion.

The idea is to regain testicular function while bringing back natural LH secretion. If you block hypothalamous estrogen receptors, you are going to eventually see LH go up even if you have high serum estrogen levels.
Sure, and that applies when you're starting or restarting your hpta, or in cycle, like in the protocols I mentioned earlier. I was wondering about long term. When your LH is up and test production high/normal with the serm, what is the benefit of adding or keeping the hcg in?
 

Moto140

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Sure, and that applies when you're starting or restarting your hpta, or in cycle, like in the protocols I mentioned earlier. I was wondering about long term. When your LH is up and test production high/normal with the serm, what is the benefit of adding or keeping the hcg in?
I don't think there is a benefit in that. If you really have good LH and FSH, and your balls are working properly, then mission accomplished.

Maybe there are certain guys who need a slightly supraphysiological level of LH to keep the testes producing enough natural test. Or maybe an HMG/HCG protocol for guys with fertility issues. To me it seems reduntant aside from some peculiar situation.
 

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