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HCG prevents shutdown??

Idkwhat

Member
Hi all,
This is my first post here on the forum, so forgive me if I’m in the wrong place (and maybe redirect me to the appropriate place). I am 21, with low-normal test and am considering doing a 12 week cyp cycle to test the waters of testosterone a bit. I have tried clomid, and while it did raise my testosterone substantially, it also drastically lowered my igf-1, so that doesn’t seem to be an option for me.
The main reason I’m considering a cycle at such a young age, is that Im also considering full-blown trt. I want to try testosterone shots and see if it’s worth it for me. I know it’s a huge commitment, and I’m prepared for the consequences. If I have a longer than average PCT, so be it.
Anyway, my question regards HCG. I have heard HCG can prevent shutdown in the testes, and I love my boys, so that would be huge for me. I have read posts on here about men who have not experienced any atrophy on their cycle injecting HCG at 500iu eod. Anyone else have an experience like this? Will I be able to 100% prevent atrophy with HCG? Or is there some percentage that people on this forum have agreed on as to the extent that HCG can prevent atrophy/shutdown? If what I hear about HCG is true, I don’t know why anyone would ever come off test, if there is a way to keep your nuts working. I am really confused about that.
Appreciate all replies,
-James
 
My understanding, which doesnt say a whole lot, is that it replaces LH. That keeps your balls full but it has nothing to do with shutdown. Shutdown=no test production.

Somebody will chime in with more knowledge and info. But in a nutshell, hcg prevents testicular atrophy, but not shutdown. And it sounds to me like it almost adds- no detracts- another layer of shutdown.
 
Idkwhat said:
Hi all,
This is my first post here on the forum, so forgive me if I’m in the wrong place (and maybe redirect me to the appropriate place). I am 21, with low-normal test and am considering doing a 12 week cyp cycle to test the waters of testosterone a bit. I have tried clomid, and while it did raise my testosterone substantially, it also drastically lowered my igf-1, so that doesn’t seem to be an option for me.
The main reason I’m considering a cycle at such a young age, is that Im also considering full-blown trt. I want to try testosterone shots and see if it’s worth it for me. I know it’s a huge commitment, and I’m prepared for the consequences. If I have a longer than average PCT, so be it.
Anyway, my question regards HCG. I have heard HCG can prevent shutdown in the testes, and I love my boys, so that would be huge for me. I have read posts on here about men who have not experienced any atrophy on their cycle injecting HCG at 500iu eod. Anyone else have an experience like this? Will I be able to 100% prevent atrophy with HCG? Or is there some percentage that people on this forum have agreed on as to the extent that HCG can prevent atrophy/shutdown? If what I hear about HCG is true, I don’t know why anyone would ever come off test, if there is a way to keep your nuts working. I am really confused about that.
Appreciate all replies,
-James
Click to expand...

HCG mimics LH.... it will prevent testicular atrophy on cycle. however, you still need to use a SERM for PCT....

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/297449-info-hcg.html#post5870442

^some reading on HCG





.
 
Well, yes, it keeps them working. There are differing opinions on how and when to administer, and why.

Generally it is mostly used for pct with harder cycles where shutdown may be severe as far as duration. It will eventually cause it's own negative feedback and desensitization but that takes years of constant usage. I see no reason NOT to use it if you plan to cycle off.
 
Idkwhat said:
Hi all,
This is my first post here on the forum, so forgive me if I’m in the wrong place (and maybe redirect me to the appropriate place). I am 21, with low-normal test and am considering doing a 12 week cyp cycle to test the waters of testosterone a bit. I have tried clomid, and while it did raise my testosterone substantially, it also drastically lowered my igf-1, so that doesn’t seem to be an option for me.
The main reason I’m considering a cycle at such a young age, is that Im also considering full-blown trt. I want to try testosterone shots and see if it’s worth it for me. I know it’s a huge commitment, and I’m prepared for the consequences. If I have a longer than average PCT, so be it.
Anyway, my question regards HCG. I have heard HCG can prevent shutdown in the testes, and I love my boys, so that would be huge for me. I have read posts on here about men who have not experienced any atrophy on their cycle injecting HCG at 500iu eod. Anyone else have an experience like this? Will I be able to 100% prevent atrophy with HCG? Or is there some percentage that people on this forum have agreed on as to the extent that HCG can prevent atrophy/shutdown? If what I hear about HCG is true, I don’t know why anyone would ever come off test, if there is a way to keep your nuts working. I am really confused about that.
Appreciate all replies,
-James
Click to expand...

Can we just maybe touch on why you are considering TRT at 21 when it’s not medically necessary.

There’s plenty of great reasons for TRT but the only reasons I would really think it should be an option for a 21 year old would be hypogonadism or you have a real career in a sport where you need performance enhancement year round.

Just for curiosity’s sake and we can get back to the hcg..
 
Old Witch said:
Well, yes, it keeps them working. There are differing opinions on how and when to administer, and why.

Generally it is mostly used for pct with harder cycles where shutdown may be severe as far as duration. It will eventually cause it's own negative feedback and desensitization but that takes years of constant usage. I see no reason NOT to use it if you plan to cycle off.
Click to expand...

So does using HCG during a cycle actually maintain normal testosterone levels, or does it just maintain LH/FSH levels but allow testosterone to crash as it typically would during a cycle?
 
SpicedCider said:
So does using HCG during a cycle actually maintain normal testosterone levels, or does it just maintain LH/FSH levels but allow testosterone to crash as it typically would during a cycle?
Click to expand...

If you're taking test your levels are going to be high. HCG will force the testes to produce testosterone whether you're on test or not, whatever you're taking.
 
Matthersby said:
Can we just maybe touch on why you are considering TRT at 21 when it’s not medically necessary.


There’s plenty of great reasons for TRT but the only reasons I would really think it should be an option for a 21 year old would be hypogonadism or you have a real career in a sport where you need performance enhancement year round.

Just for curiosity’s sake and we can get back to the hcg..
Click to expand...

I had multiple tests, mainly due to my recent inability to put on muscle and lose weight, which showed my highest total T at about 400. I figure it was much higher no more than a couple years ago, because over the course of only a couple months in 2016, I was able to make SOLID gains. Between 2016 and today, I had become hooked on more drugs than you can count, and I figure that has contributed, if not caused, my hypogonadism. I know a lot of guys go on TRT for sexual reasons, and that’s partially my reasoning as well (although I currently function very well, but am afraid that having low T for a long period of time can jeopardize that), but the main reason is that I love to workout, and I can’t stand the fact that I am not seeing any gains regardless of my routine/diet. Plus, I can say for certain that I have definitely lower energy levels than I used to.

From most of what I’ve read on forums, it’s very unlikely that you will be able to naturally raise testosterone to a reasonable amount without use of a SERM (which again is not an option for me). So what I figure is that I’m going to be on full-blown TRT at some point, and I don’t see the reason in waiting.

I have also considered banking sperm, as I am engaged to an amazing 29 year old woman (slim, fat ass, doctor, and was a Virgin before we met) and figure if I’m gonna knock the lady up, it would be within the next 10 years. There’s a sperm bank that has a 10 year payment program, and if that can effectively cancel out the main concern of TRT, infertility, then I don’t see why I shouldn’t just go on TRT for life. Plus, if everything I have read on HCG when properly administered is true, then I shouldn’t have to worry about infertility anyway, correct?

I have also read plenty of studies to show that natural spermatogenesis does reboot, pretty much at a 100% success rate given enough time, and I haven’t seen a study in which that 100% success rate takes more than 2 years to accomplish.

I hear a lot of older guys cautioning young guys on starting TRT, but I don’t understand why, to be honest. Any response is greatly appreciated.

P.S. I’m not concerned about becoming dependent on test shots, if they make me feel and perform better.
 
jrock645 said:
It does nothing for test, only LH.
Click to expand...

But what would be the point of keeping LH high if it does nothing to produce test? From what I understand, the entire point of supplementing LH is that LH is the thing that tells your boys to make testosterone, and test shots put LH at 0.
 
jrock645 said:
My understanding, which doesnt say a whole lot, is that it replaces LH. That keeps your balls full but it has nothing to do with shutdown. Shutdown=no test production.

Somebody will chime in with more knowledge and info. But in a nutshell, hcg prevents testicular atrophy, but not shutdown. And it sounds to me like it almost adds- no detracts- another layer of shutdown.
Click to expand...

But isn’t the cause of atrophy that the testicles stop producing? I don’t think shutdown and atrophy are exclusively independent of each other, although I may be wrong. From my understanding, the reason balls have their size is that they’re full of testosterone and sperm right? If you prevent atrophy, your testicles must still be producing right? I am a newbie to this stuff, so forgive me if I’m way off base.
 
Old Witch said:
If you're taking test your levels are going to be high. HCG will force the testes to produce testosterone whether you're on test or not, whatever you're taking.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. So if someone is planning on doing an oral-only cycle of a steroid like TBol, would it be a no-brainer to inject HCG throughout the cycle as well to prevent shutdown? If so, would taking a SERM like toremifene accomplish basically the same thing as well?
 
Some serms on cycle might possibly avoid negative feedback but ultimately that extra androgen in the blood will cause the brain to shut off LH production. HCG is the simplest solution, but you will generally still need to protect yourself from excess aromatase with an AI any time you exceed normal human physiological androgen levels. Steroids aren't an easy drug to use, you have to be really good at doing drugs ;)
 
Old Witch said:
Some serms on cycle might possibly avoid negative feedback but ultimately that extra androgen in the blood will cause the brain to shut off LH production. HCG is the simplest solution, but you will generally still need to protect yourself from excess aromatase with an AI any time you exceed normal human physiological androgen levels. Steroids aren't an easy drug to use, you have to be really good at doing drugs ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, that seems to be the case. :) The reason I asked about the practice of taking a SERM during a cycle is because this is apparently gaining traction among bodybuilders (at least those here on AM) as a method of preventing complete shutdown of LH/FSH production, at least for the duration of most steroid cycles 6-8 wks). But now, threads like these are making me wonder -- if someone is hell-bent on doing an oral-only cycle, would they be better off just injecting HCG throughout the cycle and taking a mild AI instead of bothering with a SERM? Would taking a SERM during an entire cycle duration (even a mild one like toremifene) lead to more side effects than someone would experience as compared to taking HCG during the entire cycle?
 
Taking a serm on cycle would make things much more complicated than just taking HCG and a mild AI dose IMHO.
 
SpicedCider said:
The only thing that seems to suck about HCG is the fact that it's so damn expensive :/
Click to expand...

Really? In the uk me and a mate picked up enough for 500iu a week for both our 15’week cycles - less than 100 bucks total

My understanding is that it mimicks LH, signalling the leydig cells to keep producing test, thus LH would be at zero but the testes keep working (albeit at a slightly reduced level) which in turn makes it much easier to recover in pct....
 
Idkwhat said:
I had multiple tests, mainly due to my recent inability to put on muscle and lose weight, which showed my highest total T at about 400. I figure it was much higher no more than a couple years ago, because over the course of only a couple months in 2016, I was able to make SOLID gains. Between 2016 and today, I had become hooked on more drugs than you can count, and I figure that has contributed, if not caused, my hypogonadism. I know a lot of guys go on TRT for sexual reasons, and that’s partially my reasoning as well (although I currently function very well, but am afraid that having low T for a long period of time can jeopardize that), but the main reason is that I love to workout, and I can’t stand the fact that I am not seeing any gains regardless of my routine/diet. Plus, I can say for certain that I have definitely lower energy levels than I used to.

From most of what I’ve read on forums, it’s very unlikely that you will be able to naturally raise testosterone to a reasonable amount without use of a SERM (which again is not an option for me). So what I figure is that I’m going to be on full-blown TRT at some point, and I don’t see the reason in waiting.

I have also considered banking sperm, as I am engaged to an amazing 29 year old woman (slim, fat ass, doctor, and was a Virgin before we met) and figure if I’m gonna knock the lady up, it would be within the next 10 years. There’s a sperm bank that has a 10 year payment program, and if that can effectively cancel out the main concern of TRT, infertility, then I don’t see why I shouldn’t just go on TRT for life. Plus, if everything I have read on HCG when properly administered is true, then I shouldn’t have to worry about infertility anyway, correct?

I have also read plenty of studies to show that natural spermatogenesis does reboot, pretty much at a 100% success rate given enough time, and I haven’t seen a study in which that 100% success rate takes more than 2 years to accomplish.

I hear a lot of older guys cautioning young guys on starting TRT, but I don’t understand why, to be honest. Any response is greatly appreciated.

P.S. I’m not concerned about becoming dependent on test shots, if they make me feel and perform better.
Click to expand...

Think about it this way.... I could also say:
"The Drs caution me about being irresponsible about my eating habits. They say if I continuously eat large quantities of sugar all the time, I could end up having to depend upon insulin shots for the rest of my life. But, I told the Drs, I don't care if I end up having tovtake insulin shots every day for the rest of my life, as long as eating tina of sugar all the time makes me feel good".
 
Sorry, the system won't allow me to edit the errors in my post right now. But you can figure out what it's supposed to say.
 
SpicedCider said:
The only thing that seems to suck about HCG is the fact that it's so damn expensive :/
Click to expand...

Yeah it can be if you don't have a good source especially. you don't even necessarily have to take it very often, one dose in a month can have profound results as far as turning on or retaining natural production. My doctor has recommended several options, one simple option being one dosage of HCG halfway through a long cycle and then again on the final month.
 
Old Witch said:
Yeah it can be if you don't have a good source especially. you don't even necessarily have to take it very often, one dose in a month can have profound results as far as turning on or retaining natural production. My doctor has recommended several options, one simple option being one dosage of HCG halfway through a long cycle and then again on the final month.
Click to expand...

Really, that's all it would take to prevent shutdown during an AAS cycle (even an oral-only one like TBol solo)? Just two doses of HCG throughout the entire cycle?
 
Idkwhat said:
But isn’t the cause of atrophy that the testicles stop producing? I don’t think shutdown and atrophy are exclusively independent of each other, although I may be wrong. From my understanding, the reason balls have their size is that they’re full of testosterone and sperm right? If you prevent atrophy, your testicles must still be producing right? I am a newbie to this stuff, so forgive me if I’m way off base.
Click to expand...

ya know, pretty much every question you've asked and re-asked is covered in this thread I posted already....

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/297449-info-hcg.html#post5870442





.
 
CatSnake said:
ya know, pretty much every question you've asked and re-asked is covered in this thread I posted already....

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/297449-info-hcg.html#post5870442





.
Click to expand...

I just checked out some of the study links you posted in your thread (thanks for posting, BTW), and it sounds like HCG actually does have the potential to maintain testosterone production during steroid cycles. I guess I'll find out for myself when I run my TBol + HCG + Toremifene cycle starting during the second week of November... I can't wait.
 
If you wanna run a cycle because you’ve stopped seeing results, run a cycle, but TRT is another thing. It’s your life, you’re going to do whatever you want. I personally wouldn’t advise running a cycle with your test being at 400 unless you don’t mind a needle in your ass long term. Imo if your testes already underperform, there’s a slightly better chance you won’t bounce back very well. Not saying you won’t bounce back at all, but I’m sure you’ve been told “your levels won’t be the same again” and if your baseline is already low, chances are it’s not gonna be higher after pct. Becoming dependent on test shots is one thing but the way it affects the rest of your body (like your heart) is another, be ready for that. I just started TRT and my doctor keeps a close eye on my lipids and has blood donation type draws in his office if my blood gets too thick. A couple of guys in there cycle and he does what he can to keep us healthy. My doctor is awesome but not all doctors are like him! I’m 23 and trying to get a good TRT doc or ANYONE to treat me was a nightmare because I’m young, it’ll be this way for you too most likely.
There’s a lot that goes with this man, make sure you’re ready for everything and then some. If your test doesn’t switch back on, you’re gonna need a doctor and you’ll probably be miserable and waiting for an appointment.
Anyways after all that, HCG will mimic LH and keep your boys “awake” and full meaning you won’t be completely shut down. You will still produce some testosterone naturally and since your balls wont be off your fertility should remain in tact. Now like Old Witch has said, it is possible HCG can shut down your LH production which could be problematic but I feel like that’s more towards higher and much more frequent doses. A lot of guys run HCG towards the end of their cycle to wake the nuts up again so things will go smoothly in pct.
If you wanna try though, HCG may be a good bet to raise your levels without having to commit to TRT so keep that in mind before starting. Good luck.
 
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