hCG: IM or sub-q?
- Thread starter kwantam
- Start date
Nate Dawg
Active member
I do mine IM with a 29g 1/2 pin, so I dont know how far that is IM with a 1/2in needle lol, sometimes they are probably actually more subq because I will hit some scar tissue in there and just not put it in all the way since it can be injected either subq or IM. Never have tried subq in my abdomen like diabetics do.
CarryOnTheChaos
Member
I load a slin pin and shoot it wherever i feel like at the time
usually my stomach for the sub-q
it feels like nothing
regards,
COTC
usually my stomach for the sub-q
it feels like nothing
regards,
COTC
kwantam
the triumph of the grill
I figured instead of starting a new thread, I'd just dump this in here. I ran across this on pubmed. The interesting part is the Test level vs. hCG dose result. In particular, follow the link, grab the PDF, and look at figure 2: even with exogenous testosterone supplied, plasma testosterone was elevated in the presence of hCG.
Might this suggest that taking hCG throughout the cycle could improve results?
Invalid Link Removed
LOW DOSE HUMAN CHORIONIC GONADOTROPIN MAINTAINS INTRATESTICULAR TESTOSTERONE IN NORMAL MEN WITH TESTOSTERONE INDUCED GONADOTROPIN SUPPRESSION.
Coviello AD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, Herbst KL, Amory JK, Anawalt BD, Sutton PR, Wright WW, Brown TR, Yan X, Zirkin BR, Jarow JP.
Center for Research in Reproduction and Contraception, Geriatric Research Education and Clinical Center, Veteran Affairs Puget Sound Health Care System (AMM), and Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine (ADC, WJB, JKA, BDA, PLS), Seattle, WA; Department of Medicine, Charles R. Drew University (KLH), Los Angeles, CA; Department of Urology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine (XY, JPJ), Baltimore, MD; Division of Reproductive Biology, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health (WWW, TRB, XY, BRZ, JPJ), Baltimore, MD.
In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally we sought to determine the dose response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to determine the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate (TE) weekly in combination with either saline placebo or hCG 125 IU, 250 IU, or 500 IU every other day for 3 weeks. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/L) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/L). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 nmol/L to 72 nmol/L) in the TE/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Post-treatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.
Might this suggest that taking hCG throughout the cycle could improve results?
Invalid Link Removed
LOW DOSE HUMAN CHORIONIC GONADOTROPIN MAINTAINS INTRATESTICULAR TESTOSTERONE IN NORMAL MEN WITH TESTOSTERONE INDUCED GONADOTROPIN SUPPRESSION.
Coviello AD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, Herbst KL, Amory JK, Anawalt BD, Sutton PR, Wright WW, Brown TR, Yan X, Zirkin BR, Jarow JP.
Center for Research in Reproduction and Contraception, Geriatric Research Education and Clinical Center, Veteran Affairs Puget Sound Health Care System (AMM), and Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine (ADC, WJB, JKA, BDA, PLS), Seattle, WA; Department of Medicine, Charles R. Drew University (KLH), Los Angeles, CA; Department of Urology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine (XY, JPJ), Baltimore, MD; Division of Reproductive Biology, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health (WWW, TRB, XY, BRZ, JPJ), Baltimore, MD.
In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally we sought to determine the dose response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to determine the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate (TE) weekly in combination with either saline placebo or hCG 125 IU, 250 IU, or 500 IU every other day for 3 weeks. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/L) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/L). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 nmol/L to 72 nmol/L) in the TE/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Post-treatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.
kwantam
the triumph of the grill
Jesus, they gave this guy 10000iu of hCG 2x/wk for 3 months!
At what dose is it supposed to be toxic to the Leydig cells again?
Invalid Link Removed
Successful treatment of anabolic steroid-induced azoospermia with human chorionic gonadotropin and human menopausal gonadotropin.
Menon DK.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University Malaya Medical Centre, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. [email protected]
OBJECTIVE: To document for the first time the successful treatment using human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and human menopausal gonadotropins (hMG) of anabolic steroid-induced azoospermia that was persistent despite 1 year of cessation from steroid use. DESIGN: Clinical case report. SETTINGS: Tertiary referral center for infertility. PATIENT(S): A married couple with primary subfertility secondary to azoospermia and male hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. The husband was a bodybuilder who admitted to have used the anabolic steroids testosterone cypionate, methandrostenolone, oxandrolone, testosterone propionate, oxymetholone, nandrolone decanoate, and methenolone enanthate. INTERVENTION(S): Twice-weekly injections of 10,000 IU of hCG (Profasi; Serono) and daily injections of 75 IU of hMG (Humegon; Organon) for 3 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Semen analyses, pregnancy. RESULT(S): Semen analyses returned to normal after 3 months of treatment. The couple conceived spontaneously 7 months later. CONCLUSION(S): Steroid-induced azoospermia that is persistent after cessation of steroid use can be treated successfully with hCG and hMG.
At what dose is it supposed to be toxic to the Leydig cells again?
Invalid Link Removed
Successful treatment of anabolic steroid-induced azoospermia with human chorionic gonadotropin and human menopausal gonadotropin.
Menon DK.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University Malaya Medical Centre, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. [email protected]
OBJECTIVE: To document for the first time the successful treatment using human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and human menopausal gonadotropins (hMG) of anabolic steroid-induced azoospermia that was persistent despite 1 year of cessation from steroid use. DESIGN: Clinical case report. SETTINGS: Tertiary referral center for infertility. PATIENT(S): A married couple with primary subfertility secondary to azoospermia and male hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. The husband was a bodybuilder who admitted to have used the anabolic steroids testosterone cypionate, methandrostenolone, oxandrolone, testosterone propionate, oxymetholone, nandrolone decanoate, and methenolone enanthate. INTERVENTION(S): Twice-weekly injections of 10,000 IU of hCG (Profasi; Serono) and daily injections of 75 IU of hMG (Humegon; Organon) for 3 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Semen analyses, pregnancy. RESULT(S): Semen analyses returned to normal after 3 months of treatment. The couple conceived spontaneously 7 months later. CONCLUSION(S): Steroid-induced azoospermia that is persistent after cessation of steroid use can be treated successfully with hCG and hMG.
juggernaut333
Member
So I gather as long as it gets below/absorbed beneath the skin layer thats all that u need to worry about?I have very little bodyfat so a half inch 29g slin pin in the glute would be just the ticket then for my animals research?
And on a side note...GOOD LORD..why would they give that guy 10k iu of hcg twice a week?!Wonder what effect it had on the leydig cells,and why the excessive dose!
And on a side note...GOOD LORD..why would they give that guy 10k iu of hcg twice a week?!Wonder what effect it had on the leydig cells,and why the excessive dose!
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
sub-q because Beelze said so 
Ubiquitous
Registered User
In regards to mixing it with my AAS.. What about the oil solution and the bacteriostatic water mix? I could have swore I saw something negative about this on another post somewhere.jminis said:
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
it will be fine
scarfacebling
Registered User
for those that mix with there aas how do u measure out say 250 IU on a syringe with ML's on it also do you have to use the solvent that comes with it? should the solvent and the HCG just be put into a sterile vial together?