HCG/HMG best times to use and their role in helping PCT

YoungBodyBuil

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So I'm far from well versed with HCG/HMG, what role would they play in PCT PURPOSES. I'm not on TRT and just trying to get the most effective pct I can. I have CLOMID/NOLVA/exem on hand for my upcoming PCT however it's my hardest hitting cycle yet, and I'm trying to make sure I recover well. How would HCG/HMG be used on a 10 week oral cycle. I've also read that it can desensitize lets if cells and I'd like to use them conservatively to prevent that!
 

YoungBodyBuil

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I'd love to expand my knowledge on this!!
 

DennisC1986

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Wish I could help, but I'm interesting in hearing about this as well.
 
bighulksmash

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So I'm far from well versed with HCG/HMG, what role would they play in PCT PURPOSES. I'm not on TRT and just trying to get the most effective pct I can. I have CLOMID/NOLVA/exem on hand for my upcoming PCT however it's my hardest hitting cycle yet, and I'm trying to make sure I recover well. How would HCG/HMG be used on a 10 week oral cycle. I've also read that it can desensitize lets if cells and I'd like to use them conservatively to prevent that!
Some say use it last 4 weeks some say 10 days . Sensitised leydig cells are a myth, ive used hcg and it swelled my balls so much that i needed to either fukk or jerk every few hours . Do your research on both pick the one u want to use then we can discuss them . They are similar in so many ways .
 
bighulksmash

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HMG is good stuff, but I don't think you need to include it in a test only cycle.

It's fairly new, not as readily available, and somewhat expensive compared to HCG. I know of a few guys that used it, not really for PCT. They became infertile and wanted to have kids. Yeah, bad or no PCT can leave you infertile. You are correct though, both should be run at the same time for best results.

I would use it if you were running a really heavy stack, in your case, I don't think recovery time would be very different.

Some notes:

HMG is typically used to treat infertility . Basically, long term use of HCG at doses of 1000 i.u. 3 or more times weekly causes suppresion or insensitivity of Luetinizing hormone (LH) and to some degree Follicle stimulating hormone (FSH).

Body builders who dont respond to the classic PCT schemes of low dose HCG and clomid for a few weeks will definitley have a hard time with recovery and may encounter depression, a lacking sexual drive, low testicular weight along with low semen/sperm volume.

HMG is Follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and luetinizing hormone (LH). This simply stimulates your natural test production and keeps HCG working optimally. Your sex drive and sense of well being come back more rapidly then with other treatment as well as your potential for staying or becoming fertile.

Luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) are called gonadotropins because stimulate the gonads - in males, the testes, and in females, the ovaries. They are not necessary for life, but are essential for reproduction. These two hormones are secreted from cells in the anterior pituitary called gonadotrophs. Most gonadotrophs secrete only LH or FSH, but some appear to secrete both hormones.

As described for thyroid-simulating hormone, LH and FSH are large glycoproteins composed of alpha and beta subunits. The alpha subunit is identical in all three of these anterior pituitary hormones, while the beta subunit is unique and endows each hormone with the ability to bind its own receptor.

In both sexes, LH stimulates secretion of sex steroids from the gonads. In the testes, LH binds to receptors on Leydig cells, stimulating synthesis and secretion of testosterone. Theca cells in the ovary respond to LH stimulation by secretion of testosterone, which is converted into estrogen by adjacent granulosa cells.

As its name implies, FSH stimulates the maturation of ovarian follicles. Administration of FSH to humans and animals induces "superovulation", or development of more than the usual number of mature follicles and hence, an increased number of mature gametes.

FSH is also critical for sperm production. It supports the function of Sertoli cells, which in turn support many aspects of sperm cell maturation.

Diminished secretion of LH or FSH can result in failure of gonadal function (hypogonadism). This condition is typically manifest in males as failure in production of normal numbers of sperm. In females, cessation of reproductive cycles is commonly observed.

Elevated blood levels of gonadotropins usually reflect lack of steroid negative feedback. Removal of the gonads from either males or females, as is commonly done to animals, leads to persistent elevation in LH and FSH. In humans, excessive secretion of FSH and/or LH most commonly the result of gonadal failure or pituitary tumors. In general, elevated levels of gonadotropins per se have no biological effect
 
bighulksmash

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Hcg unless your trying for a baby then hmg
 

YoungBodyBuil

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HMG is good stuff, but I don't think you need to include it in a test only cycle.

It's fairly new, not as readily available, and somewhat expensive compared to HCG. I know of a few guys that used it, not really for PCT. They became infertile and wanted to have kids. Yeah, bad or no PCT can leave you infertile. You are correct though, both should be run at the same time for best results.

I would use it if you were running a really heavy stack, in your case, I don't think recovery time would be very different.

Some notes:

HMG is typically used to treat infertility . Basically, long term use of HCG at doses of 1000 i.u. 3 or more times weekly causes suppresion or insensitivity of Luetinizing hormone (LH) and to some degree Follicle stimulating hormone (FSH).

Body builders who dont respond to the classic PCT schemes of low dose HCG and clomid for a few weeks will definitley have a hard time with recovery and may encounter depression, a lacking sexual drive, low testicular weight along with low semen/sperm volume.

HMG is Follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and luetinizing hormone (LH). This simply stimulates your natural test production and keeps HCG working optimally. Your sex drive and sense of well being come back more rapidly then with other treatment as well as your potential for staying or becoming fertile.

Luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) are called gonadotropins because stimulate the gonads - in males, the testes, and in females, the ovaries. They are not necessary for life, but are essential for reproduction. These two hormones are secreted from cells in the anterior pituitary called gonadotrophs. Most gonadotrophs secrete only LH or FSH, but some appear to secrete both hormones.

As described for thyroid-simulating hormone, LH and FSH are large glycoproteins composed of alpha and beta subunits. The alpha subunit is identical in all three of these anterior pituitary hormones, while the beta subunit is unique and endows each hormone with the ability to bind its own receptor.

In both sexes, LH stimulates secretion of sex steroids from the gonads. In the testes, LH binds to receptors on Leydig cells, stimulating synthesis and secretion of testosterone. Theca cells in the ovary respond to LH stimulation by secretion of testosterone, which is converted into estrogen by adjacent granulosa cells.

As its name implies, FSH stimulates the maturation of ovarian follicles. Administration of FSH to humans and animals induces "superovulation", or development of more than the usual number of mature follicles and hence, an increased number of mature gametes.

FSH is also critical for sperm production. It supports the function of Sertoli cells, which in turn support many aspects of sperm cell maturation.

Diminished secretion of LH or FSH can result in failure of gonadal function (hypogonadism). This condition is typically manifest in males as failure in production of normal numbers of sperm. In females, cessation of reproductive cycles is commonly observed.

Elevated blood levels of gonadotropins usually reflect lack of steroid negative feedback. Removal of the gonads from either males or females, as is commonly done to animals, leads to persistent elevation in LH and FSH. In humans, excessive secretion of FSH and/or LH most commonly the result of gonadal failure or pituitary tumors. In general, elevated levels of gonadotropins per se have no biological effect
Wow, thanks A TON hulk. Honestly. So in my case a 10 week cycle do you think either of them or even necessary?
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Hcg unless your trying for a baby then hmg
I would like to stay fertile so HMG what's the dosing scheme for HMG? I have access to 75 IU and 150 IU vials... Do you think it's even necessary for a 10 week oral cycle? I feel like my cycle is nothing compared to some, but I'm still trying to make sure I keep EVERYTHIG in check
 
bighulksmash

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I just read the original post over again I didn't notice that you said a 10-week cycle of oral only steroids now my question for you is I need to know either via post or PM what your cycle is broken down as. Depending on the severity of each substance that you're going to use I wouldn't use HCG or HMG unless you were using injectables for 8 to 12 weeks but that's just me people may have different opinions on this bitch so either PM me or posted here what your Cycles going to be.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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I just read the original post over again I didn't notice that you said a 10-week cycle of oral only steroids now my question for you is I need to know either via post or PM what your cycle is broken down as. Depending on the severity of each substance that you're going to use I wouldn't use HCG or HMG unless you were using injectables for 8 to 12 weeks but that's just me people may have different opinions on this bitch so either PM me or posted here what your Cycles going to be.
I'll just post it here for general feedback.

OL DERMAFURY
300mg for 8 weeks
OL LGD
16mg for 10 weeks
OL SUP3R-4
440MG for 8 weeks
OL SUP3R-EPI
1000mg for 8 weeks
Celtic Halo Mass
75-100mg for 6 weeks.

I mean it's nothing compared to other cycles but it's my most intense cycle, thank you so much for any feedback. I really appreciate it.. I mean for a 12-16 week injectable I'd take it, but for an 8 week cycle I'm not sure. Any and ALL insight would be awesome thanks so much for everything and the information bro.
 
bighulksmash

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I'll just post it here for general feedback.

OL DERMAFURY
300mg for 8 weeks
OL LGD
16mg for 10 weeks
OL SUP3R-4
440MG for 8 weeks
OL SUP3R-EPI
1000mg for 8 weeks
Celtic Halo Mass
75-100mg for 6 weeks.

I mean it's nothing compared to other cycles but it's my most intense cycle, thank you so much for any feedback. I really appreciate it.. I mean for a 12-16 week injectable I'd take it, but for an 8 week cycle I'm not sure. Any and ALL insight would be awesome thanks so much for everything and the information bro.
Yup . I was thinking like 12 weeks of test 8 weeks dbol 4 weeks sd. I dont see a need to run that many compounds. Buttttt * if thays your plan u would only need a serm . Oral only cycles from my past were 8 weeks max . You could in theory break that into 2 6 weekers with a pct in between . Many options with your great list . Wat are your goals ?
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Yup . I was thinking like 12 weeks of test 8 weeks dbol 4 weeks sd. I dont see a need to run that many compounds. Buttttt * if thays your plan u would only need a serm . Oral only cycles from my past were 8 weeks max . You could in theory break that into 2 6 weekers with a pct in between . Many options with your great list . Wat are your goals ?
I'm doing 8 weeks CLOMID 25mg every week and 25mg eod for last 2 weeks and nolvadex at 20mg for 8 weeks with exem the last 2 weeks, a top notch pct but I wasn't sure about HCG/HMG. I'm looking for a recomp, and the Epi/sup3r-4 are just there as bases since I have a lot of dry compounds that's why, otherwise IDVE cut the compounds back, I just get
Lethargic on orals
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Yup . I was thinking like 12 weeks of test 8 weeks dbol 4 weeks sd. I dont see a need to run that many compounds. Buttttt * if thays your plan u would only need a serm . Oral only cycles from my past were 8 weeks max . You could in theory break that into 2 6 weekers with a pct in between . Many options with your great list . Wat are your goals ?
I'm currently 181-183 and 11% BF I want to get to 190 and 8% BF so I'm doing strict reverse dieting with this. Just wanted to make sure my pct is solid, I'm 24 so I really want to make sure everything stays proper. I'll be taking 6-8 months maybe a year off after that cycle and just cycle once to twice a year to keep myself healthy, I may move on to pinning but I'm just not there yet.
 
bighulksmash

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OL DERMAFURY
300mg for 8 weeks
OL LGD
16mg for 10 weeks

OL SUP3R-4
440MG for 8 weeks
OL SUP3R-EPI
1000mg for 8 weeks
Celtic Halo Mass
75-100mg for 6 weeks

Thats how i would run it . 2 separated cycles . 4 to 6 week break in between. Do u do injectables ? If so pick up the hcg for that run .
 
bighulksmash

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Celtic labs was one of my favorite companies.
 
bighulksmash

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I like your products but in my honest opinion that's too many compounds to be running together at the same time you got some really solid product and I think that if you split them up into different stacks it may yield better results. Sometimes your receptors will become clogged I know that first-hand with my last Halo trest run it was ridiculous the doses I had to do to see any results. But seeing as you don't cycle as much as I did back then you may be able to get away with running this the way you want. I'm surprised nobody has said that's way too many compounds for one cycle.

There are ways to safely run all of those compounds via bridging but that would mean you literally take two at a time then when it's about to run out a week before you start the next two so on and so forth. Have you ever bridged any Cycles?
 
bighulksmash

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I'm currently 181-183 and 11% BF I want to get to 190 and 8% BF so I'm doing strict reverse dieting with this. Just wanted to make sure my pct is solid, I'm 24 so I really want to make sure everything stays proper. I'll be taking 6-8 months maybe a year off after that cycle and just cycle once to twice a year to keep myself healthy, I may move on to pinning but I'm just not there yet.
Don't rush to the pinning when you get there you get there it's not a race do it when you're ready. Have u ever ran any transdermals?
 

YoungBodyBuil

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I like your products but in my honest opinion that's too many compounds to be running together at the same time you got some really solid product and I think that if you split them up into different stacks it may yield better results. Sometimes your receptors will become clogged I know that first-hand with my last Halo trest run it was ridiculous the doses I had to do to see any results. But seeing as you don't cycle as much as I did back then you may be able to get away with running this the way you want. I'm surprised nobody has said that's way too many compounds for one cycle.

There are ways to safely run all of those compounds via bridging but that would mean you literally take two at a time then when it's about to run out a week before you start the next two so on and so forth. Have you ever bridged any Cycles?

Hm I wasn't sure if it was too many compounds or not, I'm using 3 cycle supports and 1.2 grams tudca daily, 5g fish oil, 400mg coq10 2.4g nac daily, 3.6g red yeast rice daily and a lot of other supports like garlic extracts ect.
 
bighulksmash

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Hm I wasn't sure if it was too many compounds or not, I'm using 3 cycle supports and 1.2 grams tudca daily, 5g fish oil, 400mg coq10 2.4g nac daily, 3.6g red yeast rice daily and a lot of other supports like garlic extracts ect.
I'm about to relax for a while after I take a short nap I'll private message you maybe we can work out a plan
 
bad rad

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500iu EOD of hCG has been used to maintain fertility when used alongside Test during research. There have been other studies using anywhere of from 125-500iu EOD hCG and the evidence indicates that fertility would be maintained at lower doses but those studies weren't specifically looking at fertility. As for desensitizing testes to hCG other studies have used 2000iu 3x weekly and the testes remained responsive for 2+ months. These studies used participants with impaired testes function so HPTA normal men should have better results. HMG will completely replace the need for hCG but realistically you probably don't need it. I'd save it for after the cycle if you really want to use it.

I believe using hCG from the start makes the most sense on a cycle. Even very low dosages weekly, ~500iu will work to maintain testicular response instead of gambling that they will restart later.

In a TRT scenario hCG has other functions as well. The body has LH receptors elsewhere besides the testes. hCG will stimulate these too for a better overall sense of well being. Myself and others on TRT have noticed better libido using it with our test.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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500iu EOD of hCG has been used to maintain fertility when used alongside Test during research. There have been other studies using anywhere of from 125-500iu EOD hCG and the evidence indicates that fertility would be maintained at lower doses but those studies weren't specifically looking at fertility. As for desensitizing testes to hCG other studies have used 2000iu 3x weekly and the testes remained responsive for 2+ months. These studies used participants with impaired testes function so HPTA normal men should have better results. HMG will completely replace the need for hCG but realistically you probably don't need it. I'd save it for after the cycle if you really want to use it.

I believe using hCG from the start makes the most sense on a cycle. Even very low dosages weekly, ~500iu will work to maintain testicular response instead of gambling that they will restart later.

In a TRT scenario hCG has other functions as well. The body has LH receptors elsewhere besides the testes. hCG will stimulate these too for a better overall sense of well being. Myself and others on TRT have noticed better libido using it with our test.
So I have better access to HMG over HCG how would you recommend I use HMG for this cycle? I'm going to keep it at 10 weeks oral, it may not be necessary but I'd rather keep my boys healthy than risk it on a longer cycle, so how would you advise the use of HMG on this cycle and during pct or right before? Thanks so much for any and all info!
 
bad rad

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So I have better access to HMG over HCG how would you recommend I use HMG for this cycle? I'm going to keep it at 10 weeks oral, it may not be necessary but I'd rather keep my boys healthy than risk it on a longer cycle, so how would you advise the use of HMG on this cycle and during pct or right before? Thanks so much for any and all info!
In your situation 75iu of HMG twice weekly should maintain some function. This is the beginning dose used for fertility treatment. It's hard to overdose HMG because the LH component has a very short active life in the body, about an hour compared to a few days for hCG (dose dependent).
 
DonnieM

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Anyone familiar with the "Power PCT" protocol? Combines Nolva, Clomid and HCG.
Some ppl say dont use HCG in PCT but on cycle instead. But what if its used for 1-2 weeks in the beginning of PCT, wouldnt it help the testes start up and get things going?
 
CATdiesel76

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I wouldn't worry about hcg for an 8-10 week cycle. I only use it when I come of a 6 month to 1.5 year blast and cruise. Clomid in most cases will be enough to get you back up and running.

I would actually start the clomid during the last week of your cycle and run it for about 6 weeks after. Dat reccomends this and I forgot where to find the studies he based it off of but starting clomid before the end of my cycle made a world of difference for me
 

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Anyone familiar with the "Power PCT" protocol? Combines Nolva, Clomid and HCG.
Some ppl say dont use HCG in PCT but on cycle instead. But what if its used for 1-2 weeks in the beginning of PCT, wouldnt it help the testes start up and get things going?
The reason to use low doses throughout a cycle is to help mitigate testicular atrophy. When you have testicular atrophy, the SERMs are not going to be as effective because your testicles are not responding. Thus if one uses the HCG in PCT to kickstart the testicles, it's a little bit illogical because the testicular atrophy could have been mitigated to some extent prior to that and thus not needing the kickstart in the first place (if you can prevent the car battery from dying, why allow it to die only to then try to jump start the thing after the fact?).

Another HCG protocol would be to start the HCG ~2 weeks prior to completion of a cycle so that hopefully your would have responsive testicles when you start the SERM treatment.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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I wouldn't worry about hcg for an 8-10 week cycle. I only use it when I come of a 6 month to 1.5 year blast and cruise. Clomid in most cases will be enough to get you back up and running.

I would actually start the clomid during the last week of your cycle and run it for about 6 weeks after. Dat reccomends this and I forgot where to find the studies he based it off of but starting clomid before the end of my cycle made a world of difference for me
I've never sen this before do you happen to know the reasoning? I'd love to know why brother.
 
CATdiesel76

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I've never sen this before do you happen to know the reasoning? I'd love to know why brother.
I will have to look for his write ups and the studies. Been about two years since I've read it
 

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