Answered HCG for taper off brief TRT, restart natural T-levels

PoSiTiVeFLoW

PoSiTiVeFLoW

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So I am seeing an FDA approved method for using HCG injections to restart men's testosterone levels.

But my old lady Endocrinologist at Kaiser thinks despite me cycling PH and gear for ~3years that I show signs to restart production. I also respond well to low dose Test Cyp, like 80mg has me at 600ng/dL after 2-3 post injection.

Anyone have experience using HCG to restart or restore test levels?

She says they only give that for guys wishing to have kids, etc.. But clinics say otherwise. She knows I used roids and admits tamoxifen would or might help my gyno.. but has yet to prescribe.

Hmm. Who knows this position?
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW

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I don’t understand, do you want to stop trt?
Well I feel pretty good at low dose 60mg Test Cyp weekly even.. and yeah if I could avoid getting a jab in the hip and spending every Friday morning at Kaiser shot clinic.. would be better.

I think if I can get my gonads to work again then I can be strong, get a good pump with modern Arginine supps and use less harsh gear (non methyl) PH to just get hard, strong.. fine by me.

However, if I don't restart in say two months.. then yeah, probably stuck on TRT for good.

Unless HCG can restart or restore test function this way!?

 
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SouthPawSD

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Well I feel pretty good at low dose 60mg Test Cyp weekly even.. and yeah if I could avoid getting a jab in the hip and spending every Friday morning at Kaiser shot clinic.. would be better.

I think if I can get my gonads to work again then I can be strong, get a good pump with modern Arginine supps and use less harsh gear (non methyl) PH to just get hard, strong.. fine by me.

However, if I don't restart in say two months.. then yeah, probably stuck on TRT for good.

Unless HCG can restart or restore test function this way!?
Interesting you bring this up as I was listening to a podcast about roids, restart, trt, and restarting. They interviewed a well known endocrinologist named Dr. Michael Skelly. If anyone is interested it had a lot of good info. I think it was called "Under The Bar" EP 74 and 75. He is a big advocate of HRT / TRT for quality of life and to treat a wide range of diseases or disorders.

Anyways the point being he is very interested with the hpta especially when it comes to restarting people after steroid abuse. You could find it googling Power PCT. He is constantly improving it and trying to figure a better protocol.

His approach is you have to restart the testes and have them functioning before you can restart and have the brain take over.
For the protocol:
Days1-20 hCG 1,000-2,000IUs E3D.
Day 1-45 nolva 20mg/day
Day 1-30 clomid 100mg/day.

now I know some of the comments will be HCG doesn't belong in PCT, that's way too much HCG and you will desensitize your testes, but as I have spent a lot of time researching this I have not found any studies that appear to have negative consequences for extended periods of time (one study was around 24 months on I think of I remember right?) Or extremely high dosages (as in 5,000 EOD). I personally will follow this next time.

Hopefully this can lead you to some more research or maybe some people have here have tried this with success.
 

SouthPawSD

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Well I feel pretty good at low dose 60mg Test Cyp weekly even.. and yeah if I could avoid getting a jab in the hip and spending every Friday morning at Kaiser shot clinic.. would be better.

I think if I can get my gonads to work again then I can be strong, get a good pump with modern Arginine supps and use less harsh gear (non methyl) PH to just get hard, strong.. fine by me.

However, if I don't restart in say two months.. then yeah, probably stuck on TRT for good.

Unless HCG can restart or restore test function this way!?
Interesting you bring this up as I was listening to a podcast about roids, restart, trt, and restarting. They interviewed a well known endocrinologist named Dr. Michael Skelly. If anyone is interested it had a lot of good info. I think it was called "Under The Bar" EP 74 and 75. He is a big advocate of HRT / TRT for quality of life and to treat a wide range of diseases or disorders.

Anyways the point being he is very interested with the hpta especially when it comes to restarting people after steroid abuse. You could find it googling Power PCT. He is constantly improving it and trying to figure a better protocol.

His approach is you have to restart the testes and have them functioning before you can restart and have the brain take over.
For the protocol:
Days1-20 hCG 1,000-2,000IUs E3D.
Day 1-45 nolva 20mg/day
Day 1-30 clomid 100mg/day.

now I know some of the comments will be HCG doesn't belong in PCT, that's way too much HCG and you will desensitize your testes, but as I have spent a lot of time researching this I have not found any studies that appear to have negative consequences for extended periods of time (one study was around 24 months on I think of I remember right?) Or extremely high dosages (as in 5,000 EOD). I personally will follow this next time.

Hopefully this can lead you to some more research or maybe some people have here have tried this with success.
 

SouthPawSD

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Well I feel pretty good at low dose 60mg Test Cyp weekly even.. and yeah if I could avoid getting a jab in the hip and spending every Friday morning at Kaiser shot clinic.. would be better.

I think if I can get my gonads to work again then I can be strong, get a good pump with modern Arginine supps and use less harsh gear (non methyl) PH to just get hard, strong.. fine by me.

However, if I don't restart in say two months.. then yeah, probably stuck on TRT for good.

Unless HCG can restart or restore test function this way!?
Interesting you bring this up as I was listening to a podcast about roids, restart, trt, and restarting. They interviewed a well known endocrinologist named Dr. Michael Skelly. If anyone is interested it had a lot of good info. I think it was called "Under The Bar" EP 74 and 75. He is a big advocate of HRT / TRT for quality of life and to treat a wide range of diseases or disorders.

Anyways the point being he is very interested with the hpta especially when it comes to restarting people after steroid abuse. You could find it googling Power PCT. He is constantly improving it and trying to figure a better protocol.

His approach is you have to restart the testes and have them functioning before you can restart and have the brain take over.
For the protocol:
Days1-20 hCG 1,000-2,000IUs E3D.
Day 1-45 nolva 20mg/day
Day 1-30 clomid 100mg/day.

now I know some of the comments will be HCG doesn't belong in PCT, that's way too much HCG and you will desensitize your testes, but as I have spent a lot of time researching this I have not found any studies that appear to have negative consequences for extended periods of time (one study was around 24 months on I think of I remember right?) Or extremely high dosages (as in 5,000 EOD). I personally will follow this next time.

Hopefully this can lead you to some more research or maybe some people have here have tried this with success.
 

SouthPawSD

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Well I feel pretty good at low dose 60mg Test Cyp weekly even.. and yeah if I could avoid getting a jab in the hip and spending every Friday morning at Kaiser shot clinic.. would be better.

I think if I can get my gonads to work again then I can be strong, get a good pump with modern Arginine supps and use less harsh gear (non methyl) PH to just get hard, strong.. fine by me.

However, if I don't restart in say two months.. then yeah, probably stuck on TRT for good.

Unless HCG can restart or restore test function this way!?
Interesting you bring this up as I was listening to a podcast about roids, restart, trt, and restarting. They interviewed a well known endocrinologist named Dr. Michael Skelly. If anyone is interested it had a lot of good info. I think it was called "Under The Bar" EP 74 and 75. He is a big advocate of HRT / TRT for quality of life and to treat a wide range of diseases or disorders.

Anyways the point being he is very interested with the hpta especially when it comes to restarting people after steroid abuse. You could find it googling Power PCT. He is constantly improving it and trying to figure a better protocol.

His approach is you have to restart the testes and have them functioning before you can restart and have the brain take over.
For the protocol:
Days1-20 hCG 1,000-2,000IUs E3D.
Day 1-45 nolva 20mg/day
Day 1-30 clomid 100mg/day.

now I know some of the comments will be HCG doesn't belong in PCT, that's way too much HCG and you will desensitize your testes, but as I have spent a lot of time researching this I have not found any studies that appear to have negative consequences for extended periods of time (one study was around 24 months on I think of I remember right?) Or extremely high dosages (as in 5,000 EOD). I personally will follow this next time.

Hopefully this can lead you to some more research or maybe some people have here have tried this with success.
 

SouthPawSD

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Well I feel pretty good at low dose 60mg Test Cyp weekly even.. and yeah if I could avoid getting a jab in the hip and spending every Friday morning at Kaiser shot clinic.. would be better.

I think if I can get my gonads to work again then I can be strong, get a good pump with modern Arginine supps and use less harsh gear (non methyl) PH to just get hard, strong.. fine by me.

However, if I don't restart in say two months.. then yeah, probably stuck on TRT for good.

Unless HCG can restart or restore test function this way!?
Interesting you bring this up as I was listening to a podcast about roids, restart, trt, and restarting. They interviewed a well known endocrinologist named Dr. Michael Skelly. If anyone is interested it had a lot of good info. I think it was called "Under The Bar" EP 74 and 75. He is a big advocate of HRT / TRT for quality of life and to treat a wide range of diseases or disorders.

Anyways the point being he is very interested with the hpta especially when it comes to restarting people after steroid abuse. You could find it googling Power PCT. He is constantly improving it and trying to figure a better protocol.

His approach is you have to restart the testes and have them functioning before you can restart and have the brain take over.
For the protocol:
Days1-20 hCG 1,000-2,000IUs E3D.
Day 1-45 nolva 20mg/day
Day 1-30 clomid 100mg/day.

now I know some of the comments will be HCG doesn't belong in PCT, that's way too much HCG and you will desensitize your testes, but as I have spent a lot of time researching this I have not found any studies that appear to have negative consequences for extended periods of time (one study was around 24 months on I think of I remember right?) Or extremely high dosages (as in 5,000 EOD). I personally will follow this next time.

Hopefully this can lead you to some more research or maybe some people have here have tried this with success.
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW

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Dood great info, this is what makes Anabolicminds shine as a forum.
 

SouthPawSD

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Sorry for the triple post lol didn't realize it posted Everytime haha hopefully it helps! Make Google it again and see if there is an updated one
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW

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Sorry for the triple post lol didn't realize it posted Everytime haha hopefully it helps! Make Google it again and see if there is an updated one
No worries, you have given me good ammo to hunt. Other experienced answers are welcome.
 

BBiceps

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Well I feel pretty good at low dose 60mg Test Cyp weekly even.. and yeah if I could avoid getting a jab in the hip and spending every Friday morning at Kaiser shot clinic.. would be better.

I think if I can get my gonads to work again then I can be strong, get a good pump with modern Arginine supps and use less harsh gear (non methyl) PH to just get hard, strong.. fine by me.

However, if I don't restart in say two months.. then yeah, probably stuck on TRT for good.

Unless HCG can restart or restore test function this way!?

Ok, now I understand better. I was in the same boat awhile ago, I was on TRT (200mg weekly) for about 3 yrs (same as you if I understand you correct) and my wife and I decided that we wanted another kid. My sperm was “too low to measure” so I had to get off. I had help from a Dr but I also did research by myself, my protocol was:
0-4 weeks, HCG 250 iu’s 2x weekly
0-2 weeks, Clomid 50mg
3-8 weeks, Clomid 25mg

After those 2 months I was making babies :)

This was 4 yrs ago and I’m still not back on TRT, my natural test levels are in the high 400’s, I feel good, I might go back on in the future but no plans as of now. I do miss the “roid look” though :p
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW

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Ok, now I understand better. I was in the same boat awhile ago, I was on TRT (200mg weekly) for about 3 yrs (same as you if I understand you correct) and my wife and I decided that we wanted another kid. My sperm was “too low to measure” so I had to get off. I had help from a Dr but I also did research by myself, my protocol was:
0-4 weeks, HCG 250 iu’s 2x weekly
0-2 weeks, Clomid 50mg
3-8 weeks, Clomid 25mg

After those 2 months I was making babies :)

This was 4 yrs ago and I’m still not back on TRT, my natural test levels are in the high 400’s, I feel good, I might go back on in the future but no plans as of now. I do miss the “roid look” though :p
Well, mine was 'self prescribed TRT' But after my gear cycles, I actually conceived two lovely kids during the gear days.. shocked the Endo, partly why she think I'll recover). So mine is just seeing if I can end up in the same shoes you just described. Natural test 400-600 range and the. I can use a light androgen and modern pre workout suppz to get me through. If I get too bad HCG again, then probably back to TRT late in life..
 
Old Witch

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It’s definitely possible. Dave Palumbo came off TRT after years and years of it and is apparently fine.
 

BBiceps

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Interesting you bring this up as I was listening to a podcast about roids, restart, trt, and restarting. They interviewed a well known endocrinologist named Dr. Michael Skelly. If anyone is interested it had a lot of good info. I think it was called "Under The Bar" EP 74 and 75. He is a big advocate of HRT / TRT for quality of life and to treat a wide range of diseases or disorders.

Anyways the point being he is very interested with the hpta especially when it comes to restarting people after steroid abuse. You could find it googling Power PCT. He is constantly improving it and trying to figure a better protocol.

His approach is you have to restart the testes and have them functioning before you can restart and have the brain take over.
For the protocol:
Days1-20 hCG 1,000-2,000IUs E3D.
Day 1-45 nolva 20mg/day
Day 1-30 clomid 100mg/day.

now I know some of the comments will be HCG doesn't belong in PCT, that's way too much HCG and you will desensitize your testes, but as I have spent a lot of time researching this I have not found any studies that appear to have negative consequences for extended periods of time (one study was around 24 months on I think of I remember right?) Or extremely high dosages (as in 5,000 EOD). I personally will follow this next time.

Hopefully this can lead you to some more research or maybe some people have here have tried this with success.
Those amounts seems very high, not sure if that’s necessary, actually I’m 100% sure it’s not.
Well, mine was 'self prescribed TRT' But after my gear cycles, I actually conceived two lovely kids during the gear days.. shocked the Endo, partly why she think I'll recover). So mine is just seeing if I can end up in the same shoes you just described. Natural test 400-600 range and the. I can use a light androgen and modern pre workout suppz to get me through. If I get too bad HCG again, then probably back to TRT late in life..
Ok, then you might not need much HCG, if any at all, since your sperm seems good. Do a 8-10 week Clomid cycle and do bloods after that to see where you at. I do 1 or 2 Clomid cycles a year to boost myself up from high 400’s to low 900’s. Once in awhile I add a oral during those cycles.
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW

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Those amounts seems very high, not sure if that’s necessary, actually I’m 100% sure it’s not.


Ok, then you might not need much HCG, if any at all, since your sperm seems good. Do a 8-10 week Clomid cycle and do bloods after that to see where you at. I do 1 or 2 Clomid cycles a year to boost myself up from high 400’s to low 900’s. Once in awhile I add a oral during those cycles.
Ok you sound like what my Endo-doc was hinting at but didn't elaborate so well.

I already fired off a message to her on Kaiser's app, we'll see what she says.
 

SouthPawSD

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Those amounts seems very high, not sure if that’s necessary, actually I’m 100% sure it’s not.


Ok, then you might not need much HCG, if any at all, since your sperm seems good. Do a 8-10 week Clomid cycle and do bloods after that to see where you at. I do 1 or 2 Clomid cycles a year to boost myself up from high 400’s to low 900’s. Once in awhile I add a oral during those cycles.
Yes I agree with you that dosages to seem excessive. I tried to keep my opinion out of that post and make it as much fact based as possible since that's personally what I like to see when it comes to things I don't fully understand. I think the doctors idea was "if this doesn't work, than we can safely assume your hypogonadal and can go from that point".

Personally I still think hCG on cycle is best, with possibly a small blast if it was a long cycle or one known for people having a hard time to recover.

Interested about your clomid cycles. What was your goal when you started doing it that way? Always looking to learn.
 
TheBigJS

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It appears to me that HCG, Clomid, whatever get you (re) started very very quickly or will up natty Test in most people (not primary hypergonadism) who are for whatever reason low Test up to upper natty levels but it;

a; doesn't stay elevated, it returns to the lower level (it may eventually recover if you're surpressed from AAS use) in a few weeks
b; it doesn't feel like it, you may have Test over 1000ng/dl but you still feel rubbish.

Hence plenty cycle, do post PCT bloodwork (and all looks good) then check a year later (pre next cycle?) only to find they're very low.
And also hence the thought once you start you'll never stop.
 
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Kratom267

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Is it possible to “restart” using just SERMs alone? And arimadex.
Maybe something like...
Clomid for 4 weeks then nolva and arimadex for final 4 weeks
 

BBiceps

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Is it possible to “restart” using just SERMs alone? And arimadex.
Maybe something like...
Clomid for 4 weeks then nolva and arimadex for final 4 weeks
It should be, it’s depends on how shut down you are. I’m not experienced with Nolva so I would just use Clomid for 8-10 weeks.
 

BBiceps

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Yes I agree with you that dosages to seem excessive. I tried to keep my opinion out of that post and make it as much fact based as possible since that's personally what I like to see when it comes to things I don't fully understand. I think the doctors idea was "if this doesn't work, than we can safely assume your hypogonadal and can go from that point".

Personally I still think hCG on cycle is best, with possibly a small blast if it was a long cycle or one known for people having a hard time to recover.

Interested about your clomid cycles. What was your goal when you started doing it that way? Always looking to learn.
I use the Clomid to “boost” my test levels, it won’t stay high for too long but I feel a noticeable change in strength and feel a little tighter than normal. Obviously it’s not as a real steroid cycle but the good thing with Clomid is that after you’re done you go back to normal without being suppressed.
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW

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It appears to me that HCG, Clomid, whatever get you (re) started very very quickly or will up natty Test in most people (not primary hypergonadism) who are for whatever reason low Test up to upper natty levels but it;

a; doesn't stay elevated, it returns to the lower level (it may eventually recover if you're surpressed from AAS use) in a few weeks
b; it doesn't feel like it, you may have Test over 1000ng/dl but you still feel rubbish.

Hence plenty cycle, do post PCT bloodwork (and all looks good) then check a year later (pre next cycle?) only to find they're very low.
And also hence the thought once you start you'll never stop.
I use the Clomid to “boost” my test levels, it won’t stay high for too long but I feel a noticeable change in strength and feel a little tighter than normal. Obviously it’s not as a real steroid cycle but the good thing with Clomid is that after you’re done you go back to normal without being suppressed.
Thanks fellas! The endocrinologist says she'll refer me to the fertility doc for the HCG talk... But this makes sense, even if I boost my Test levels or restart with HCG, clomid, etc... Theres still a good shot, it will just trend back low and not recover as if I had never touched PH and gear for the past 3 years or so?

In this case, I asked doc to a.) not taper me off TRT, keep me at low 60mg-80mg (all I need for 600ng/dL 3 days after shot) and b.) give me some damn tamox - as she admits it works to treat gyno sides, but has let me hang with them even measured the damn lumps.

I went ahead and got myself a bottle of PRE's tamox (thanks fellas) already working 3-4 days in to minimize the lumps. Sheesh! I have to go source a med, my endo says is legit (but hesitates to prescribe)? She's older, knows I used steroids, but I came clean... I feel like her hesitancy was to prove "not an addict" stuff.
 
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