havoc weight gain

[sw333zy]

There has been a buzz on the late about running Epi at doses much higher, like 90-100.
I am following a log on another forum where a very reputable and successful physique competitor and trainer is running 100mg Epi daily. No sides, daily body composition changes, ridiculous strength gains while at a deficit preparing for a show.
I vote for at least 80mg, and I am pretty sure I will be running Epi at doses close to or at 100mg.


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Interesting....where do I find it?

 

[drewsicle3210]

The log...
http://swoldiers.net/forum/showthread.php?2295-100mgs-EPI-100mgs-DMZ




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[rphash49]

i have posted in this thread and others that i can run epi for 8 weeks with no problem. i've been forced to rethink this. 6 weeks is perfect. the first time i went 8 weeks on it, i ran it 30/30/45/45/45/45/45/45, with no problem. this last time i went 45/45/60/60/60/45/45/45. in the 7th week the lethargy started kicking in a little but not too bad. in the 8th week, i had a headache for 5 days straight, had constant ringing in my ears, urine was slightly dark even drinking 1.5 gallons of water a day and i started feeling like total crap. i didn't gain anymore weight after 6 weeks either. after 8 weeks, i was plenty happy to end the cycle. i'm keeping it at 6 weeks from now on.

I'm following two thread at different sites where guys are running epi at 90mg and 100mg. Both of them compete but still seems crazy. 40mg seems to be the sweet spot for me. Any more than that the lethargy kicks in to hard even when stacked with stano at 800-1000 per day

 

[drewsicle3210]

I'm following two thread at different sites where guys are running epi at 90mg and 100mg. Both of them compete but still seems crazy. 40mg seems to be the sweet spot for me. Any more than that the lethargy kicks in to hard even when stacked with stano at 800-1000 per day

You use any stimulants to combat lethargy?


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[rphash49]

You use any stimulants to combat lethargy?

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I honestly try to avoid stims while on cycle but I had to use preworkout to have motivation in the gym at 50mg. I dropped back down to 40mg and the lethargy ended. I ran epi at 50mg for a week to see if would pass but it didn't.

Everyone is different so you just have to figure out what works best for you.

 

[drewsicle3210]

I honestly try to avoid stims while on cycle but I had to use preworkout to have motivation in the gym at 50mg. I dropped back down to 40mg and the lethargy ended. I ran epi at 50mg for a week to see if would pass but it didn't.

Everyone is different so you just have to figure out what works best for you.

Right on. So a test base is supposed to aid in the lethargy correct?
And what PH's, oral steroids, or injectibles are used for a test base? Other than test?
Montego1 snagencyV2.0
I read something from the FinaFlex crew saying one of their products could be run with a methylated Oral to serve as a test base


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[Matthersby]

Right on. So a test base is supposed to aid in the lethargy correct?
And what PH's, oral steroids, or injectibles are used for a test base? Other than test?
Montego1 snagencyV2.0
I read something from the FinaFlex crew saying one of their products could be run with a methylated Oral to serve as a test base

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There are no dumb questions here..... jk there's lots. Your only test base is injectable testosterone. In the form of cyp, enth, prop. There are other forms for advanced users such as reeeeeealy short half-lifed injectables. Methylated test will make you feel just as sh!tty as your PH/DS/OS will

 

[Matthersby]

There are no dumb questions here..... jk there's lots. Your only test base is injectable testosterone. In the form of cyp, enth, prop. There are other forms for advanced users such as reeeeeealy short half-lifed injectables. Methylated test will make you feel just as sh!tty as your PH/DS/OS will

Plus let's see if I can find some reps that can tell me how an oral AND legal product could ever suffice like 500mg of REAL test for those too scared to learn how to pin...

 

[REALDEAL012]

Bros,

Day 12 of PCT from Havoc/Stano and here is what I have noticed... Tell me how this sounds compared to other PCT results.
21 years old - First cycle

3g DAA
Test Factor
Erase - Starting monday
Torem 120/60/60/30

I have leaned out a bit and lost some good water weight.
Somehow strength gains continued past cycle. My numbers are almost unbelievable from where I was two months ago.
Sleeping terribly and hot as crap at night.
Noticed more body acne. Nothing gross, but since I have never had acne problems, it is noticeable on my shoulders, upper back.
Attempts at morning wood, but a softy hard on basically. Starting to get some fairly strong random boners though.
NO libido whatsoever.
Seem a little moody, but that may just be placebo.
Not lacking any motivation in the gym.
Balls continue to stay close to my body and haven't filled up at all. They shrunk up pretty damn quick on cycle. I am feeling some nagging cramps from down below so hopefully they are trying to catch up.
Also, this sounds stupid, but my "buddy" seems to be smaller than usual. Man juice loads seem fine, but actual appearance is small.

Finally, this week I have decided I am going to try and reduce volume a considerable amount and deload. I would be very content even if my numbers drop after this week just because I have gained so much strength. Connective tissues are sore and I keep getting naggy injuries. Also, with sleep so bad, my recovery has been atrocious. I am just beating myself up and I think that is somewhat preventing my hormone levels from returning as well.

Thanks for the help, fellas.

 

[drewsicle3210]

What is test factor?


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[drewsicle3210]

Take some diphenhydramine (benadryl) and some melatonin to help with sleep.


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[Matthersby]

Bros,

Day 12 of PCT from Havoc/Stano and here is what I have noticed... Tell me how this sounds compared to other PCT results.
21 years old - First cycle

3g DAA
Test Factor
Erase - Starting monday
Torem 120/60/60/30

I have leaned out a bit and lost some good water weight.
Somehow strength gains continued past cycle. My numbers are almost unbelievable from where I was two months ago.
Sleeping terribly and hot as crap at night.
Noticed more body acne. Nothing gross, but since I have never had acne problems, it is noticeable on my shoulders, upper back.
Attempts at morning wood, but a softy hard on basically. Starting to get some fairly strong random boners though.
NO libido whatsoever.
Seem a little moody, but that may just be placebo.
Not lacking any motivation in the gym.
Balls continue to stay close to my body and haven't filled up at all. They shrunk up pretty damn quick on cycle. I am feeling some nagging cramps from down below so hopefully they are trying to catch up.
Also, this sounds stupid, but my "buddy" seems to be smaller than usual. Man juice loads seem fine, but actual appearance is small.

Finally, this week I have decided I am going to try and reduce volume a considerable amount and deload. I would be very content even if my numbers drop after this week just because I have gained so much strength. Connective tissues are sore and I keep getting naggy injuries. Also, with sleep so bad, my recovery has been atrocious. I am just beating myself up and I think that is somewhat preventing my hormone levels from returning as well.

Thanks for the help, fellas.

I think that's a very wise decision. I took 5 days off mid-cycle and came back bigger AND stronger. PCT you gotta get creative w ways to stimulate while sticking to heavy basics but you need rest more than ever, especially a nice deload or even two.

 

[Matthersby]

Take some diphenhydramine (benadryl) and some melatonin to help with sleep.

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Throw in some 5-htp and a sh!tload of L-dopa and ZMA and you will recover. No such thing as overkill when it comes to keeping gains. You need sleep

 

[drewsicle3210]

Throw in some 5-htp and a sh!tload of L-dopa and ZMA and you will recover. No such thing as overkill when it comes to keeping gains. You need sleep

Good L-dopa supplements?
I currently have dopadex, but that is $20 a bottle. Looking for a more economic source


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[Matthersby]

EBay velvet bean/mucuna pruriens. NOW makes one that is just called L-dopa.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I am planning to run epi with my TRT end of this month...I might try this 80mg deal ....I've had great success at 60 mg. my estrogen is chronically high and my joints seem bulletproof

 

[lboston]

Speaking of pct.. Starting today. Blood pressure was getting too high, retaining too much water for liking and I couldn't sleep worth ****.

4 weeks of epi 30/40/40/40, Stano 600/800/800/100

Torem at 120/60/60/30
3G DAA
Molecular Nutrition Test Factor
Erase 0/0/4/3/2/1
Creatine
And I have bulk forskolin laying around I will probably use.

Look good?

What were you taking on cycle to combat the BP issues?

 

[REALDEAL012]

What is test factor?


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Test Factor is Molecular Nutrition's natty test booster. I have always had success with it as part of a natty stack in the past, so I doubt thats the problem. However, I will take it out to see if it makes a difference.

I just got in the shower and realized my left nut is literally very small, not just a little shrunken, but my right one feels normal. Whats up with that?

 

[REALDEAL012]

What were you taking on cycle to combat the BP issues?

Just the basics.... Cycle support, fish oil, etc. I started megadosing cycle support and that made it even worse.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Test Factor is Molecular Nutrition's natty test booster. I have always had success with it as part of a natty stack in the past, so I doubt thats the problem. However, I will take it out to see if it makes a difference.

I just got in the shower and realized my left nut is literally very small, not just a little shrunken, but my right one feels normal. Whats up with that?

I'm on test factor right now, I had used Division 1, then Unleashed, then Division 1 again....so I changed it up with test factor this go round. Usually give 2-4 weeks inbetween the SHBG test booster products so the effects don't attenuate. Test factor seems to be the best formula, at least looking at the label. But for anybody interested in taking it for a "test boost", it elevates FREE test for the most part from what I see on the ingredient label.....not similar to a DAA type deal that raises test the conventional route. Matter of fact MN has another test factor product that has DAA in it which can be used in conjunction with the original test factor.

 

[REALDEAL012]

I'm on test factor right now, I had used Division 1, then Unleashed, then Division 1 again....so I changed it up with test factor this go round. Usually give 2-4 weeks inbetween the SHBG test booster products so the effects don't attenuate. Test factor seems to be the best formula, at least looking at the label. But for anybody interested in taking it for a "test boost", it elevates FREE test for the most part from what I see on the ingredient label.....not similar to a DAA type deal that raises test the conventional route. Matter of fact MN has another test factor product that has DAA in it which can be used in conjunction with the original test factor.

So what are you suggesting? Should I drop the TestFactor and keep the DAA while hoping the Torem does its job?

 

[AnabolicHolic]

So what are you suggesting? Should I drop the TestFactor and keep the DAA while hoping the Torem does its job?

no no, original test factor (the one with the nettle in it, no DAA version) will assist in elevating your free test via the SHBG route, and the DAA will be raising your total test...so the combination of both will raise free and total test, which = a good thing...esp in PCT. I have always used a SHBG type supp in PCT, maybe starting it 1-2 weeks into PCT then going 4 weeks, but still in PCT. Some suggest its best to use a SHBG supp later in PCT as opposed to straight off the bat day one, but either way is fine. between the DAA, the test factor and the torem you should be more than fine.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

idk its just a thought, but the test factor may be affecting your sleep.

I'm ultra sensitive to products that interfere with my sleep, and I take 2 test factor morning and 2 at night before bed with no issues. So I think if its ok for a guy like me, it probably won't affect anybody in that regard I was initially worried about adding them in at night though......

 

[REALDEAL012]

I guess I am just concerned with my balls not coming back at all yet and my sleep being so bad. Is two weeks too early to tell even for a light cycle like 4 weeks epi?

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I guess I am just concerned with my balls not coming back at all yet and my sleep being so bad. Is two weeks too early to tell even for a light cycle like 4 weeks epi?

It varies from individual to individual.....not to make you paranoid, but the torem could be bunk you know I am not a fan of RC whatsoever.....that being said, I always use clomid. Why you ask? A) because I know the "taste" of it (very distinctive), B) it is tried and true, and C) I know if I am a paranoid whiny bitchy fcker who wants to commit suicide it is legit stuff fo' sho' lol

 

[Matthersby]

C) I know if I am a paranoid whiny bitchy fcker who wants to commit suicide it is legit stuff fo' sho' lol

Hahahaha. God I love to hate Clomid. I cry at commercials, i hate life, I literally become the biggest b!tch.

 

[REALDEAL012]

Exactly my concern... What would you recommend? I got the stuff from a well recommended and trusted source, so I don't know what to do.

 

[rphash49]

Hahahaha. God I love to hate Clomid. I cry at commercials, i hate life, I literally become the biggest b!tch.

I've never taken Clomid without L-dopa. I wonder if I didn't take the L-dopa how much of a little bioch I would be?!?! Lol

 

[rphash49]

Exactly my concern... What would you recommend? I got the stuff from a well recommended and trusted source, so I don't know what to do.

A big part of PCT seems to be psychological for a lot of people. Lol I think it was like my 2nd cycle I thought I had gyno cause my nips were sore.... They were sore because I was touching them all day everyday through the cycle and pct checking for gyno. Libido for a guy can also be psychological.

That being said the only way to tell if it is bunk is to have it tested or to get blood work done a few weeks after pct and see what your levels look like. It's hard to say you should feel something by week X because everyone is different. For me Clomid seems to take a little over 2 weeks before I start to "feel" anything. RC Torem seems to hit me fast but I run a long pct with torem 120/90/90/60/60/30. 120 for first 3 days then 90 for the remainder of week 1.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

A big part of PCT seems to be psychological for a lot of people. Lol I think it was like my 2nd cycle I thought I had gyno cause my nips were sore.... They were sore because I was touching them all day everyday through the cycle and pct checking for gyno. Libido for a guy can also be psychological.

That being said the only way to tell if it is bunk is to have it tested or to get blood work done a few weeks after pct and see what your levels look like. It's hard to say you should feel something by week X because everyone is different. For me Clomid seems to take a little over 2 weeks before I start to "feel" anything. RC Torem seems to hit me fast but I run a long pct with torem 120/90/90/60/60/30. 120 for first 3 days then 90 for the remainder of week 1.

^^^Yep....bloods are the only way unfortunately. Reason why rc and overseas ancillarys suck lol that is one thing you don't want to be bunk.

 

[REALDEAL012]

Well since I have plenty of Torem, would it be overkill to keep taking it past week 4 to see if I just need more time? Also, I am going to add ERASE today for 4 weeks. Would Bioforge V3 be of any help? I know plenty of people love it just for the sleep help and boost in libido. Other than libido and slightly smaller nuts, everything else is fine. Feel great in the gym, not lethargic, etc.

 

[REALDEAL012]

I just don't want to go overkill with killing estrogen and then rebound when I get off the Torem.

 

[rphash49]

Totally hijacked this thread lol.

You can definitely take torem to 6 weeks. How have you ran it so far?

 

[kaikara]

I just don't want to go overkill with killing estrogen and then rebound when I get off the Torem.

Torem doesn't kill estrogen. It's a Serm. Selective estrogen receptor modulator. It keeps it from binding to your nipples while your body normalizes it's production.

 

[drewsicle3210]

You think it would be beneficial to get some Aromasin to run through to like a week after PCT? Being it is a suicidal AI, surely it will help with any Estro rebound

 

[rphash49]

You think it would be beneficial to get some Aromasin to run through to like a week after PCT? Being it is a suicidal AI, surely it will help with any Estro rebound

Well he is already using erase so if he plans it so that after he completes his serm he runs erase out another 2 weeks it should help with rebound.

 

[kaikara]

Erase is typically tapered as well to prevent rebound. 0/0/3/2/2/1

 

[REALDEAL012]

Torem is 120/60/60/60 and I am starting week three today adding in 3 Erase.

Any input on the Bioforge? It's all different ingredients than TF or DAA.

 

[kaikara]

I've used Bioforge before. The forskolin in it gave me diarrhea. Worked well for the test boost though. I didn't use it in a pct, i used it as a natty cycle before i started playing with ph's, and I felt pretty good on it. This was the original ProMax though. Looks like V3 may not have Forskolin in it.

Probably not worth the price. DAA and Erase is my preferred pct, along with a SERM.

 

[REALDEAL012]

Ok so just wait out the planned PCT, and if things aren't back to normal later, revisit it at that point?

 

[Ulam25]

Been reading this post, learning a lot about PH's. I have awhile before I start my first cycle, but I am making sure I am knowledgable before I do.

 

[REALDEAL012]

I absolutely hijacked this thread so my apologies for that, but it seems pointless since this has gone for so long.

Another update... Yesterday I noticed my left nipple feeling a little odd. I didn't think much of it maybe just because of how I hit it at work or throughout the day, I don't know. But today, I could definitely tell something was up. It's not real sensitive and doesn't have any "lumps" etc, but I have always had big and puffy nipples since puberty, and despite getting leaner, they don't seem to be changing. It's like an itching, nagging kind of pain and I notice that it seems like my nipples get harder more often, just like when you are in the cold. I just added Erase last night if that should help any.

 

[rphash49]

I absolutely hijacked this thread so my apologies for that, but it seems pointless since this has gone for so long.

Another update... Yesterday I noticed my left nipple feeling a little odd. I didn't think much of it maybe just because of how I hit it at work or throughout the day, I don't know. But today, I could definitely tell something was up. It's not real sensitive and doesn't have any "lumps" etc, but I have always had big and puffy nipples since puberty, and despite getting leaner, they don't seem to be changing. It's like an itching, nagging kind of pain and I notice that it seems like my nipples get harder more often, just like when you are in the cold. I just added Erase last night if that should help any.

I would add 2 more weeks of torem at 30 and plan accordingly so you run erase for an additional 2 weeks once you are done with the serm.

 

[REALDEAL012]

I am currently doing 120/60/60/30 and 0/0/3/2/2/2/2/1 and just started the Erase so I am on my second week of 60 Torem. How's that look? Also, is it possible the Torem is just underdosed and I need to maybe go with 1.5ml? Or do the cons out weight the pros?

 

[rphash49]

I am currently doing 120/60/60/30 and 0/0/3/2/2/2/2/1 and just started the Erase so I am on my second week of 60 Torem. How's that look? Also, is it possible the Torem is just underdosed and I need to maybe go with 1.5ml? Or do the cons out weight the pros?

Sure it's possible its underdosed.

This is how I dose torem and erase

Torem 120/90/90/60/60/30
Erase 0/0/3/3/2/2/2/1

 

[drewsicle3210]

Get some labs bro. Just do it. It seems worth it to know if you are risking man boobs you know? Good luck

 

[REALDEAL012]

Get some labs bro. Just do it. It seems worth it to know if you are risking man boobs you know? Good luck

Oh I will man. But I just don't want it to flare up now and then even after PCT be a problem.

 

[rphash49]

Just to make sure it is clear. You need to wait till your pct is done and everything is out of your system before getting blood work. I usually wait 2-4 weeks after