I'm using h-drol right now for a lean bulk/recomp cycle. I really don't do the "bulk up for winter" and then cut in the summer type of program. I pretty much lean bulk year round. Every few months or so I start to slack off on the diet, and when I start to gain fat I just ratchet it back up. It works pretty well for me, and I stay between 8and 10% bf year round. Occasionally I'll cycle carbs if I'm really trying to cut bf, but those type of deits really don;t agree with me because unless I'm on gear I drop weight really fast. On this cycle, I'm looking to gain 8-12 lbs and drop back down to around 8% bf. Havoc is much better for an all out bulker. You can easily put on 15lbs if your diet is on point.